Confirmed: Forza Horizon 5 is the next title to make the leap from Xbox to PlayStation

[Windows Central]

Further to Microsoft's pledge to make Xbox more profitable, one of their biggest franchises is arriving on PlayStation soon.

Confirmed: Forza Horizon 5 is the next title to make the leap from Xbox to PlayStation : Read more

 

[Papictu]

Xbox Series is almost dead, in a year or two I imagine support for the system will cease and users will no longer have the confidence to use the Xbox Store. It's been a terrible generation for Xbox, they are seeding an impossible scenario for a next console to stand a chance.

I've been playing on Xbox for 20 years, I hope that before it disappears they get some agreement with Steam or Playstation to be able to export our profiles to these systems and continue there, it would be very sad to see how the profiles, hours of gameplay and achievements unlocked are lost.

 

[RagingTyga]

I disagree, these past few years have been the best it's been to be an xbox user. There's been nothing but absolutely BANGERS available on GP, and they keep coming and it's very hard to keep up. Indiana Jones, Call of Duty BO6,Flinlock, Palworld, Ninja Gaiden Black 2, and games I never made it to, like Octopath Traveler 1&2 etc...Then you got Doom, Avowed, it's nuts.

The only thing Microsoft is doing, is releasing these games on other platforms, which brings in revenue which helps cover the cost of putting them on Gamepass...which is genius in my opinion. Playstation and PC gamers are literally subsidizing the games that come out on Gamepass. The benefit is Microsoft doesn't have to worry about the Hardware sales, and they can focus on making the next gen hardware better when that comes, instead of just "good enough". Plus, it's helping them learn and gain ideas from what's happening in the market, especially now with Gaming handhelds

 

[fatpunkslim]

What is less clear is how the degraded status of "Xbox console exclusives," particularly among its most iconic games, will impact hardware sales going forward

Forza Horizon 5 was released in 2021, 4 years later on playstation. Do you think a player is willing to wait 4 years to play a game? Basically like SOT, another GAAS, After reaching its full potential.

What is the purpose of an exclusive game? To attract players to its ecosystem (gamepass or consoles or both, ....)! For it to work, this exclusivity period must be frustrating enough to push a player to go to your ecosystem. I think that from 1 to 2 years, it's sufficiently frustrating to push a player who wants to play this game to go to your ecosystem.

So, a long enough temporary exclusivity has the same positive effect (or almost) as a permanent exclusivity.

But does a permanent exclusivity exist? Who can today, on this industry situation, say that an exclusivity will be permanent? Even PlayStation can't, especially given the direction they are taking.

It's fine that Forza Horizon 5 comes out on PlayStation. The game has reached its potential and has done its job of attracting players to Xbox.

I think we won't have to wait long to hear about the release of Forza Horizon 6. And that would be very smart:

• The new revenues from Forza Horizon 5 will help amortize the development costs of Forza Horizon 6.
• It will help introduce the franchise to PlayStation players and make them want to play the sequel, knowing that FH6 won't be released on other platforms right away. It would create frustration and push players towards the Xbox ecosystem (Game Pass on PC and/or Xbox consoles).
  
  So it's a very good move ! (Moreover, all the buzz around an Xbox game going to PlayStation will only boost sales, it's really well played)

 

[fjtorres5591]

Forza Horizon 5 was released in 2021, 4 years later on playstation. Do you think a player is willing to wait 4 years to play a game? Basically like SOT, another GAAS, After reaching its full potential.

What is the purpose of an exclusive game? To attract players to its ecosystem (gamepass or consoles or both, ....)! For it to work, this exclusivity period must be frustrating enough to push a player to go to your ecosystem. I think that from 1 to 2 years, it's sufficiently frustrating to push a player who wants to play this game to go to your ecosystem.

So, a long enough temporary exclusivity has the same positive effect (or almost) as a permanent exclusivity.

But does a permanent exclusivity exist? Who can today, on this industry situation, say that an exclusivity will be permanent? Even PlayStation can't, especially given the direction they are taking.

It's fine that Forza Horizon 5 comes out on PlayStation. The game has reached its potential and has done its job of attracting players to Xbox.

I think we won't have to wait long to hear about the release of Forza Horizon 6. And that would be very smart:

• The new revenues from Forza Horizon 5 will help amortize the development costs of Forza Horizon 6.
• It will help introduce the franchise to PlayStation players and make them want to play the sequel, knowing that FH6 won't be released on other platforms right away. It would create frustration and push players towards the Xbox ecosystem (Game Pass on PC and/or Xbox consoles).
  
  So it's a very good move ! (Moreover, all the buzz around an Xbox game going to PlayStation will only boost sales, it's really well played)

You realize logic is wasted on the fen, right?

It's HORIZON not MOTORSPORT.
4 YEARS OLD and a live service time sink; yet another way to eat into Sony's customers' money bags to fund the NextBox which now has another reason to come in 2026.

No date set yet for PS5 INDIANA JONES, right?
My guess was June. Right after the big XBOX summer event, when XBOX gamers have moved on.

 

[CadErik]

This could revive the game and the multiplayer experience, esp since it is a 4+ year old game. This is one of my favorite racing games, from the intro, to the landscapes and some of the iconic locations - everybody wins having this one on PS5.

 

[Hsg]

Forza Horizon 5 was released in 2021, 4 years later on playstation. Do you think a player is willing to wait 4 years to play a game? Basically like SOT, another GAAS, After reaching its full potential.

What is the purpose of an exclusive game? To attract players to its ecosystem (gamepass or consoles or both, ....)! For it to work, this exclusivity period must be frustrating enough to push a player to go to your ecosystem. I think that from 1 to 2 years, it's sufficiently frustrating to push a player who wants to play this game to go to your ecosystem.

So, a long enough temporary exclusivity has the same positive effect (or almost) as a permanent exclusivity.

But does a permanent exclusivity exist? Who can today, on this industry situation, say that an exclusivity will be permanent? Even PlayStation can't, especially given the direction they are taking.

It's fine that Forza Horizon 5 comes out on PlayStation. The game has reached its potential and has done its job of attracting players to Xbox.

I think we won't have to wait long to hear about the release of Forza Horizon 6. And that would be very smart:

• The new revenues from Forza Horizon 5 will help amortize the development costs of Forza Horizon 6.
• It will help introduce the franchise to PlayStation players and make them want to play the sequel, knowing that FH6 won't be released on other platforms right away. It would create frustration and push players towards the Xbox ecosystem (Game Pass on PC and/or Xbox consoles).
  
  So it's a very good move ! (Moreover, all the buzz around an Xbox game going to PlayStation will only boost sales, it's really well played)

I have my doubts about Forza Horizon 6 being a timed exclusive. Games like The Outer Worlds 2 and Ninja Gaiden 4 are coming to PS day one. It seems that the newest Xbox games will also be like that.

 

[fatpunkslim]

I have my doubts about Forza Horizon 6 being a timed exclusive. Games like The Outer Worlds 2 and Ninja Gaiden 4 are coming to PS day one. It seems that the newest Xbox games will also be like that.

Doubts based on what? FH5 follows the same logic as Sea of Thieves, it's an old GAAS game that has reached its full potential.

The Outer Worlds has always been multiplatform, so it has no relevance, and Ninja Gaiden 4 is not an Xbox first-party game, so that's also off-topic.

@CadErik: exactly, Win Win

 

[fjtorres5591]

I have my doubts about Forza Horizon 6 being a timed exclusive. Games like The Outer Worlds 2 and Ninja Gaiden 4 are coming to PS day one. It seems that the newest Xbox games will also be like that.

Four years delay on HORIZON 5.
That makes it timed.

Consider that NINJA GAIDEN is second party, not an inhouse studio game.
Not comparable.

And OUTER WORLDS was multiplatform before MS bought OBSIDIAN. Spencer long ago said they were not looking to take games away from anybody. So yes, OUTER WORLDS 2 will go everywhere the first went, just like COD, DOOM, MINECRAFT, et al.

Is the distinction that hard to follow?

"Case by case."

Seriously, what does it matter to XBOX gsmers if a four year old *live service* shows up elsewhere? Live service games benefit from a broad reach. What's the loss? Bragging rights? "Nyah-nyah, we got Forza Horizon!" Why does it matter that EXPEDITION 33 is multiplatform if you get it day one on game pass and "they" have to pay $70? If you need to brag, brag about that.

Here's two hypotheticals: how old is the MASTER CHIEF COLLECTION? Or what about free to play, live service HALO INFINITY?

What do you buy XBOX consoles for? To play games or to thumb your nose at the rest of the kids? Live and let die. And take Spencer at his word: Some XBOX games will go to other boxes, some will stay exclusive.

And, FWIW, the FORZA that matters to XBOX is the FORZA MOTORSPORT series, the serious driving simulator, not the "lite" live service game. Fun, yes, but people don't spend hundreds of bucks in accessories for HORIZON.

 

[HeyCori]

The ever decreasing number of exclusives puts me in a very peculiar situation. My favorite games for the past several years have been either multi-plat or Xbox exclusive. I don't have a PS4 or 5 because I'm not big on Sony's exclusives. In fact, out of the three PS exclusives that I wanted to play, I played them on PC. Days Gone (mediocre), Horizon Zero Dawn (kind of dull), and Final Fantasy 7 Remake (meh). So I'm in no rush to get a PlayStation 5 for their exclusives. But it's definitely more tempting knowing that Microsoft will (likely) bring more of their titles, even newer titles, to PlayStation at a faster pace.

The logical thing to do is get a PC, PS5, and call it a day. Buuuuuut the PS5 doesn't have Game Pass. GP is pretty much how I play all my games nowadays. And even when I do buy a game, I can very easily wait until it's on a deep sale because I already got plenty on GP to pass the time. Technically, I can use my GP sub to play games on PC... I just don't want to. There was a time in my life when building and playing PC games was super neat. Now I spend 8+ hours solving computer hardware problems, and when I get home, I grab my Surface Pro and revel in its simplicity. I have a gaming laptop, and I will occasionally dip in if I have to. Otherwise, I prefer consoles.

So just stick with Xbox hardware, right? Well, Microsoft can hee and haw all they want about how they're not getting out of the hardware business, but we've seen this playbook before. They'll swear up and down that they won't do a thing before eventually doing that exact thing. I could see Microsoft staying in the hardware business just long enough to fulfill existing contractual obligations to manufacturers. Or only doing handhelds, or only Series S style consoles. Or giving up on competing on hardware entirely. Pretty much any damn thing can happen with Xbox hardware, but rest assured, something will happen in response to constantly declining sales. Because if MS gets out of the hardware business, then all their games will be PC and PS5. After all, Microsoft isn't Nintendo. Even when Nintendo was suffering horrific console sales, they never ported their games to a competitor's system. Not only has Microsoft started to, they're deep in it.

I'm pondering if I should stay the course and hope the other shoe doesn't drop? Learn to love PC gaming again? Buy a PS5? As the saying goes, time will tell.

 

[fjtorres5591]

The ever decreasing number of exclusives puts me in a very peculiar situation. My favorite games for the past several years have been either multi-plat or Xbox exclusive. I don't have a PS4 or 5 because I'm not big on Sony's exclusives. In fact, out of the three PS exclusives that I wanted to play, I played them on PC. Days Gone (mediocre), Horizon Zero Dawn (kind of dull), and Final Fantasy 7 Remake (meh). So I'm in no rush to get a PlayStation 5 for their exclusives. But it's definitely more tempting knowing that Microsoft will (likely) bring more of their titles, even newer titles, to PlayStation at a faster pace.

The logical thing to do is get a PC, PS5, and call it a day. Buuuuuut the PS5 doesn't have Game Pass. GP is pretty much how I play all my games nowadays. And even when I do buy a game, I can very easily wait until it's on a deep sale because I already got plenty on GP to pass the time. Technically, I can use my GP sub to play games on PC... I just don't want to. There was a time in my life when building and playing PC games was super neat. Now I spend 8+ hours solving computer hardware problems, and when I get home, I grab my Surface Pro and revel in its simplicity. I have a gaming laptop, and I will occasionally dip in if I have to. Otherwise, I prefer consoles.

So just stick with Xbox hardware, right? Well, Microsoft can hee and haw all they want about how they're not getting out of the hardware business, but we've seen this playbook before. They'll swear up and down that they won't do a thing before eventually doing that exact thing. I could see Microsoft staying in the hardware business just long enough to fulfill existing contractual obligations to manufacturers. Or only doing handhelds, or only Series S style consoles. Or giving up on competing on hardware entirely. Pretty much any damn thing can happen with Xbox hardware, but rest assured, something will happen in response to constantly declining sales. Because if MS gets out of the hardware business, then all their games will be PC and PS5. After all, Microsoft isn't Nintendo. Even when Nintendo was suffering horrific console sales, they never ported their games to a competitor's system. Not only has Microsoft started to, they're deep in it.

I'm pondering if I should stay the course and hope the other shoe doesn't drop? Learn to love PC gaming again? Buy a PS5? As the saying goes, time will tell.

Wait a bit.
Odds are high and getting higher that the next XBOX will be windows compatible.
(They already are but they don't offer the option. Yet.)

Remember that the XBOX is actually a locked down Windows box. Remember that Bond talked of *forward* compatibility. And that they have mentioned bringing in STEAM and the other Windows game stores. Plus there's the rumor that they will be licensing the XBOX OS to OEMs.

Add it all up and you end up with XBOX as the gaming equivalent of SURFACE.
An installable subsystem for high security PCs, like the Posix, Linux, and (deprecated) Android subsystems.

Want a cheap gaming PC? XBOX. Figure two new models (handheld and living room) and the Series boxes stay as the low end. (I'm betting on a clamshell flip up screen and detachable controllers for the handheld.)

Got the money for a higher end OEM XBOX?
Dell, HP, Lenovo, ACER, ASUS, will fight for your $800+ of money. Regardless, all will pay your library of games, all will offer Game Pass.

While everybody worries about multiplatform software, MS is actually switching to "multiplatform" *hardware*. All the flexibility of PC, all the simplicity of XBOX (if you want it). And how is Sony going to match new XBOX models every year from different OEMs? Coding their PC software not to run on anything with XBOX OS as an option? Giving up on PC? They need that money.

XBOX already changed the rules on software, next they'll change the rules on hardware. Because software is a profit center subsidized and console hardware is a cost center. And because MS always wanted Windows to be the dominant gaming hardware.

It's just tea leaf reading but the leaves have text on them.
They've told us what they're doing.
Listen to them!

 

[Lurking_Lurker_Lurks]

The extreme reaction that surrounds EVERYTHING Xbox does is rather interesting to me. Like Forza Horizon 5 is going multiplatform after FOUR YEARS of being out (the game has been out so long people were expecting a new reveal in the June Showcase (which I feel this probably definitely confirms isn't happening as they wouldn't port Forza Horizon 5 unless they played to keep supporting it for sometime)). It's not even a concern that 6 might be on PS day one (which is possible but unlikely if for no reason other than 5 needing a third party studio to help them port it). After the already four games going over and constant statements that they've done well for Xbox and more statements that there's no red lines and Xbox will continue to release on PS, it's the four year old Forza Horizon 5 that convinces people once and for all that Xbox is dead... again... for the third time this week (remind me to ask who Microsoft's on call Doctor is; Xbox be dying and reviving and dying again a lot).

After about the last time I thought to myself "Wow are the Series consoles doing that bad? Are no exclusives really destroying Xbox?" and unsurprisingly nah, not really. People are focused on year over year reports not understanding that's for shareholders because Microsoft has to report it and any unit sales would be laughably bad even if they sold Nintendo Switch numbers because to Microsoft shareholders the console market is a joke (and it kinda is; it reached a peak nearly two decades ago and the only modern console to reach that peak is the Nintendo switch and Nintendo makes the least gaming revenue (even before Xbox's Zenimax and ABK aquistions) of all three game consoles; there's something fundamentally wrong with the console market and it's inability to grow that gaming media and console warriors refuse to acknowledge and rather have become complicit in). Anyway, Xbox Series sales after 4 years are somewhere between 25 million and 30 million (with exact numbers unknown because Microsoft doesn't share). This is like the definition of mediocre for game consoles. They've already surpassed the GameCube (sold around 20M in 5 years before the Wii) and WiiU (sold a measly 13 million in 5 years before the Nintendo Switch). Historically game consoles have always really struggled with hardware sales. As stated the crown was decided in the mid 2000s with the PS2 at 150m. The Nintendo DS and now Switch also entered this realm and that's it. For more consoles hitting 50m in 5-8 years is an achievement and getting past 100m in that same time is a pipe dream (to date less than 10 consoles have achieved that). People compare Xbox and Sega and umm... no. Sony gave up on console hardware because they were selling like pitiful numbers. As in numbers barely getting past the double digits (as in WiiU numbers). I'd also say consoles realized a long time ago exclusives don't actually matter. I'm not sure why they've become so entrenched. Like exclusives didn't save Nintendo, making a fun and unique product that people actually wanted did. Having so, SO many exclusives on the WiiU and GameCube didn't skyrocket sales. Playstation has also seen that exclusives aren't pulling a significant amount of new consumers. Most PS5 hardware sales are PS4 upgrades (and now some are PS5 bass model to pro upgrades). There aren't that many more new gamers on Xbox or Playstation. As a result both companies are coping in different ways because they've (unlike Nintendo) gave trapped themselves into having high cost games go support. Xbox is expanding both their ecosystem and their presence on other platforms. Sony is raising prices and putting games on PC very slowly.

As we look at the strategies now, it really seems like Xbox is coming off the clear winner. Hardware isn't doing that much worse than what they'd expect around this time in a consoles lifetime based on their other console generations. It is unfortunate the Series never hugely took off, but they also didn't hugely fall off either. Like with previous years if Xbox really wants to see a massive pick up then they'll have to do a major refresh, and I don't think they want to (for costs and possibly rumors of an early next gen Xbox). At the same time their expansion has made them like the biggest publisher on PS (as in with tons of gamers who would never have bought an Xbox regardless of the exclusive) and helped them grow a lot on PC with major trends for cloud as well. They're diversifying where Xbox revenue comes from so they aren't reliant on a single source which hasn't shown growth in decades now (as in the entire market) and regardless peaks out at smaller numbers than are available across the industry. In comparison Sony is holding back and and as a result all they can really do is raise prices for their consumers. They also have to watch as their vast third party exclusives abandon them. Their own first party output has also dwindled due to shrinking margins (does Playstation have a pulse??). The industry is really evolving past them and all they're left with are the entrenched PS4 gamers who are becoming increasingly hard to please.

I think Xbox has the winning strategy. They can win as a platform and a publisher by focusing on their strengths to build a ubiquitous Xbox ecosystem across Console, PC, cloud, and mobile which offers gamers the most value. Sony will also continue to benefit them. I mean 70% is nothing to scuff at when you're the top seller on a platform multiple times over. Xbox hardware is already future proofed with their cloud efforts and actual sales data shows they've hardly failed. Like it's just bonkers to me that Xbox is dead specifically for porting a four year old game according to some reactions and headlines, and Nintendo was just fine with WiiU sales at 13 million (even the 3DS had dropped to like half of the DS). Like are we really tying our worth and the worth of a platform that much to whether or not gamers outside XYZ platform can pay money to that platform?

 

[fjtorres5591]

The main reason the Series Boxes aren't selling are 3-fold:

1- Regional. XBOX is never going to sell in Japan or most of Asia. They prefer to buy local. Europe, the media and even regulators hate MS for daring to make a console at all and love sony. We saw it in the open during the ABK deal with the UK regulators taking Sony talking points.as gospel and the.EU guys openly talking of "protecting *our* PlayStation. You even see some of it here.

2- Fan boy rumormongering. "XBOX is getting out of the middle east." "XBOX is dying.*, " XBOX has no games" (yeah, even now). "XBOX is going all third party so just buy Sony." Half of youtube gaming makes a living feeding the bubble with that clickbait. And it works. Even semi reputable media echoes it.

3- MS is allergic to marketing. Imagine if they spent even a fraction of Apple's media budget on tv and online ads with one message: XBOX SERIES S, all the best new games: starting at $299. The first two they can't do anything about. ADs they could but MS refuses to give money to Google, Amazon, or Facebook. they don't even advertise on Bing. Or TV. And its not just XBOX. you'd think SURFACE or Microsoft 365 family would get a push. Give Spencer some cash to spend on ads!

 

[Hsg]

Doubts based on what? FH5 follows the same logic as Sea of Thieves, it's an old GAAS game that has reached its full potential.

The Outer Worlds has always been multiplatform, so it has no relevance, and Ninja Gaiden 4 is not an Xbox first-party game, so that's also off-topic.

Consider that NINJA GAIDEN is second party, not an inhouse studio game.
Not comparable.

And OUTER WORLDS was multiplatform before MS bought OBSIDIAN. Spencer long ago said they were not looking to take games away from anybody. So yes, OUTER WORLDS 2 will go everywhere the first went, just like COD, DOOM, MINECRAFT, et al.

"Yes it is a first party XGS published title for us and we have loved working with those teams on this game/announce. The Xbox Wire piece speaks to the history of the project which started with @XboxP3 visits with those teams in Japan many years ago. " - Aaron greenberg

On the other hand, it’s true that The Outer Worlds 2 is a sequel of a multiplatform game, just like Hellblade 2. However HB2 is currently a console exclusive while TOW2 is already confirmed to be on PS day one.

Rumors aside, this strategy looks similar to Xbox's PC approach during the Xbox One generation. At the beginning, some games took years to arrive on PC after their console release, like Quantum Break, but over time there were games coming to PC on day one like Gears of War 4 or FH4.

Now, with Forza Horizon 5 coming to PlayStation years after its Xbox release, it seems like just the first step toward bringing their games to PlayStation as soon as possible.

 

[fjtorres5591]

"Yes it is a first party XGS published title for us and we have loved working with those teams on this game/announce. The Xbox Wire piece speaks to the history of the project which started with @XboxP3 visits with those teams in Japan many years ago. " - Aaron greenberg

On the other hand, it’s true that The Outer Worlds 2 is a sequel of a multiplatform game, just like Hellblade 2. However HB2 is currently a console exclusive while TOW2 is already confirmed to be on PS day one.

Rumors aside, this strategy looks similar to Xbox's PC approach during the Xbox One generation. At the beginning, some games took years to arrive on PC after their console release, like Quantum Break, but over time there were games coming to PC on day one like Gears of War 4 or FH4.

Now, with Forza Horizon 5 coming to PlayStation years after its Xbox release, it seems like just the first step toward bringing their games to PlayStation as soon as possible.

Minor quibble: *some* games. Not *their* games, which implies all.

Don't project your expectations against what Spencer hasbexplicitly said.
More games to *other* platforms doesn't mean all games nor does it mean always to Playstation. Some might go to Switch 2 but not Sony. (They've done it before.)

When you deal with corporate types you have to be literal. Stick to the letter of the word. As in "there will still be exclusives" and "case by case".

It's not hard.

 

[Lurking_Lurker_Lurks]

The main reason the Series Boxes aren't selling are 3-fold:

1- Regional. XBOX is never going to sell in Japan or most of Asia. They prefer to buy local. Europe, the media and even regulators hate MS for daring to make a console at all and love sony. We saw it in the open during the ABK deal with the UK regulators taking Sony talking points.as gospel and the.EU guys openly talking of "protecting *our* PlayStation. You even see some of it here.

2- Fan boy rumormongering. "XBOX is getting out of the middle east." "XBOX is dying.*, " XBOX has no games" (yeah, even now). "XBOX is going all third party so just buy Sony." Half of youtube gaming makes a living feeding the bubble with that clickbait. And it works. Even semi reputable media echoes it.

3- MS is allergic to marketing. Imagine if they spent even a fraction of Apple's media budget on tv and online ads with one message: XBOX SERIES S, all the best new games: starting at $299. The first two they can't do anything about. ADs they could but MS refuses to give money to Google, Amazon, or Facebook. they don't even advertise on Bing. Or TV. And its not just XBOX. you'd think SURFACE or Microsoft 365 family would get a push. Give Spencer some cash to spend on ads!

So much of this! I'd even argue that you can fold them all into 3 and blame Microsoft's failure to market properly and go really, really hard with marketing.

Regional - Yes, Sony has a much, much stronger global presence. I'd even go as far to say that this is how they came back and won in sales with the PS3 despite a disastrous starting price and horrendous launch all around. However, the biggest issue is that Microsoft doesn't fight back with very strong global marketing. They don't even fight back with strong global support with many EU and Asian regions lacking official channels to buy Xbox consoles through and proper localization for the console, games, and digital Microsoft store. I'm not saying Microsoft could overtake Sony overnight or even at all in those regions where the brand favoritism is through the roofs, but they could be seeing a lot more success compared to previous years just by supporting them better and having more global marketing campaigns.

Fanboyisms - Here is why Microsoft marketing really needs to create a strong presence for Xbox. They're fighting in a market where they are the newest kid in town with the least nostalgia and favoritism (one could even say that if there's an Xbox tax, there is 100% a Playstation and Nintendo subsidy in terms of gaming media criticisms). This isn't a new issue at all. Every single thing Xbox does HAS to come with a catch. It HAS to be bad. Their consoles, their games, their aquistions (let's say just studio and not publisher (Xbox gets headlines and comments about buying studios like Obsidian about stealing talent; Sony gets practically no comment on their studio purchases or get praise for buying up a little guy)). For me it's really insane how much news headlines are even talking about Series console sales and how Xbox is dying or giving up, because I don't remember seeing ANY such the numerous times Nintendo home consoles sales flopped (but who knows, even the WiiU was 10 years ago, maybe the internet is just different (worse)). Even Game Pass has to deal with it. Even cloud gaming. PS first launched PS Now at $20 a month with the promising of streaming PS3 and older games on PC, PS4 consoles, and Sony TVs. Sound familiar? People didn't buy into it, but people also didn't constantly say "no Playstation required to play a library of PS games" was killing Sony and use year over year sales figures which naturally massively drop off toward the midway point before a mid Gen refresh to back those claims up. However, ever since Game Pass has launched there has HAD to be a catch (even in the earliest days when it was just in console and Xbox gamers were unanimously for it). When PS Plus raised prices on their tiers FIRST (and they didn't exactly have a massive aquistion and day one COD) no one cared. When Xbox raised their prices which ultimately largely matched PS Plus prices, everyone screamed bloody murder with the FTC themselves saying it was an anticompetitive action by a company with too much monopoly power to harm consumers specifically (like if people have a problem with it, why not call both bad? Even day one releases leaving the standard console tier, that's what the media had been saying Xbox SHOULD do to stop killing gaming and it matches PS plus, but the same gaming media chastised Xbox for that as well).

Anyway, what Microsoft should be doing is constant marketing campaigns that change the narrative and push back against all the mongering with factual information of the unique value Xbox provides. People are worried about losing their libraries: Xbox should do major marketing campaigns that inform consumers that their console is where libraries are not only the safest but the strongest with native backwards compatibility that has FPS and HDR boosts for some games, Xbox Play Anywhere so buying a game once means owning it in PC and Xbox Consoles, free Xbox cloud saves gives you freedom over where you play, and Xbox Cloud Gaming is giving access to games that Xbox gamers own on practically any device with an internet connection. People are concerned that Xbox Game Pass is ruining the sustainability of games: Xbox should do a marketing campaign of the games that the subscription library has enabled them and their third party partners to create; they keep saying in interviews that there's first party gems like Battletoads they wouldn't have done without GamePass and there's tons of third party partners who have said that gamepass had been a great gateway into Xbox (like putting the old Yakuza ports on Game Pass really built a strong audience who has helped the Yakuza franchise overall grow bigger than ever with each release) or that the funding from an upfront payment to put on gamepass helped development and built a stronger game for all platforms. Gaming Media wants to paint the picture that the Series S is holding back gaming: Xbox should do a marketing campaign of how the Series S is the perfect entry console for new gamers and do another one that shows game optimization for the Series S has improved performance overall for the game on higher end platforms like the Series X. Similarly Gaming Media wants to say that Xbox is losing third party support: Xbox should do a marketing campaign that shows how their are more games than ever before on their platform and that they have more support than ever before on their platform; they should really highlight all the former third party PS exclusives that sold consoles which now support Xbox on day one (many of which support Xbox Play Anywhere and some Game Pass day one). There's always the nuclear option of taking the really bad actors to court (though I'd say it's the most unlikely as it'd be costly in time and money and would most likely just harm their reputation more).

Xbox does have issues that Sony and Nintendo aren't currently facing, but Microsoft shouldn't let those issues fester and define the console. The Series consoles are the first with dual voltage and yet they still can't market globally. Xbox gives more value in their ecosystem and more safety and freedom in your digital library than ever and they can't market that either. Now marketing has improved overall with stuff like the showcase and direct having consistently been amazing (and even non Xbox gamers say the best of the summer showcases), but they need to be going hard with marketing year round and they need to do do around the whole world. Xbox has HUGE opportunities that they are letting naysayers shout into obscurity. Xbox needs to be louder and prouder to pull in more gamers (and turn more non gamers into gamers). They actually have a HUGE opportunity in Japan right now. Sony had been neglecting its home country a lot (might change with leadership shake up), and Japan's exchange rate has really piled onto this with prices of both Xbox and Sony consoles seeing unprecedented increases, but Sony was really bad and has no Series S. The PS5 Pro with no disc drive or stand has an insane price of 120,000 yen (well 119 and some not rounded numbers) and even the base PS5 is up there with like 70k yen. The exchange rate for Yen is horrible, yes, but that doesn't mean people in Japan are earning significantly more to match these huge price increases. 120k yen is still closer to the equalivalent of paying 1,200 dollars for people earning a Japanese salary and living in Japan. Xbox has even already seen a slight boost in sales in Japan just from the Series S and because people in Japan are comparing it to those insane PS5 prices. Again, Xbox has opportunities to grow. Them not growing is ultimately a failure of Microsoft of market Xbox strongly (and Xbox needs to be more aggressive and louder with its marketing than any other console).

 

[fjtorres5591]

Funny thing: today I caught two youtube videos about Sony and its current troubles.

One is from a PC gamer amused by the fen misreading what MS putting XBOX time sink games on PlayStation means for Sony's bottom line. He called it an invasion meant to suck engagement (and money) away from Sony's games. He even brought in a table listing the top 10 PS games by player engagement. All are live service, half are MS owned. No real news there.

The second, though, was Pachter's new one and he eviscerated Sony for "wasting billions" on live service. Then he went on to (credibly, methinks) explain why the Sony live service strategy was doomed from the start, why it can't be saved, and what it takes to make live service work in the rare cases it succeeds.

Then he took it one step further and pointed to the root of the problem which is, of course, Sony management. He described it as management by hindsight and close follower management and...it fits. Everybody is now angsting over Sony's backburnered classic IPs that were shelved for the third party narrative games that were more recently set secondary to the live service push but his description explains it clearly.

Namely, Sony is not an innovator, period.
The last time they *successfully* innovated anything by themselves was TRINITRON. (look it up.) Even PlayStation was a fallback from NINTENDO backing out of a deal for a CD drive for their console of the time.

Now, if you look at their early franchise IPs they were very Nintendo-ish and their third person narrative action games started with a "better TOMB RAIDER than TOMB RAIDER". Which did so well management went all in on that class of games. And, of course, once they noted the massive amounts of money PUBG, OVERWATCH, and FORTNITE were raking in they pivoted that way without bothering to understand what made those games succeed while the other 90% of live games barely treaded water if they even survived.

Let's rag all we want on MS management for under-promoting XBOX, its features, and games, but at least Spencer is a gamer and understands gamer needs. So XBOX has fast resume, not just " the fastest SSD", and FPS BOOST and auto HDR on backcompatibility, instead of "we believe in generations", and a current generation fully compatible $300 box instead of keeping the last generation box around for 5 more years. And a controller design so ergonomically correct even Nintendo copied it.

Fair is fair: gripe about what MS actually does wrong but credit where credit is due for where they innovate in both software and hardware. Because, contrary to the oft-repeated myth, MS does understand hardware and consumer needs in both human factors and usability. (And accessibility, let's not wave that off.) They just (stupidly) refuse to toot their own horn, letting others who follow pretend to be what they're not.

Whatever the state of their hardware marketing, at least XBOX is making money hand over fist overall and they have a clear and transparent path to growth in a stagnant gaming business.

(Anybody noticed EA's valuation dropped 17% even though they are quite profitable and stable? Because that is not enough. In an age of inflation stable = slow death. Only growth is acceptable.)

That is not hindsight management.
It is growth-focused management.

And that is the elephant in the gaming room that the media simply refuses to cover. Fear?

Finding growth in a stagnant world is not easy. Or pretty. Old expectations are thrown away to make room for what it takes to flourish. But history is written by the survivors and XBOX is not going away anytime soon.

 

[fatpunkslim]

"Yes it is a first party XGS published title for us and we have loved working with those teams on this game/announce. The Xbox Wire piece speaks to the history of the project which started with @XboxP3 visits with those teams in Japan many years ago. " - Aaron greenberg

On the other hand, it’s true that The Outer Worlds 2 is a sequel of a multiplatform game, just like Hellblade 2. However HB2 is currently a console exclusive while TOW2 is already confirmed to be on PS day one.

Rumors aside, this strategy looks similar to Xbox's PC approach during the Xbox One generation. At the beginning, some games took years to arrive on PC after their console release, like Quantum Break, but over time there were games coming to PC on day one like Gears of War 4 or FH4.

Now, with Forza Horizon 5 coming to PlayStation years after its Xbox release, it seems like just the first step toward bringing their games to PlayStation as soon as possible.

The PC market is nothing like the console market:

1/ The PC market is growing, while the console market is not! We often talk about the decline in Xbox console sales, but in reality, PS consoles are also declining. It's the overall console market that is declining, not just Xbox hardware.

2/ PCs and consoles don't cannibalize each other much in the end; console players are quite different from PC players. Many console players don't want to switch to PC. Therefore, the PC is not a hardware competitor for Xbox, unlike PlayStation. That's why Xbox adopts a strategy of temporary exclusivity and case-by-case. Otherwise, they would have openly made the switch a long time ago. And contrary to what you say, I remember that Xbox sent its games to PC day one quite quickly without any temporary exclusivity. I found archives, and Phil Spencer was much more explicit about day one releases on PC, which is not at all what he says about other consoles.

3/ Apart from the usual media extrapolations and speculations, the facts clearly show that Xbox is on a case-by-case and temporary exclusivity strategy. The upcoming releases are indeed exclusive (Avowed, South of Midnight, State of Decay 3, Gears E-Day, etc.) with no announcements of releases on other platforms.

4/ If Xbox didn't care about exclusive games, why sign exclusivity contracts with third-party publishers like Stalker 2, Ark 2, 33 Immortals, Replaced, Contraband, etc.? What applies to third-party publishers also applies to first-party games.

It's common sense, just look at the facts and even the investments made by Xbox, which are mainly directed towards its hardware, PC, and cloud, but much more sporadically on other consoles, except for the Switch, which has a lot of catching up to do with all the already multiplatform games but absent on Switch.

Unfortunately, we are in an era where the media has lost its mind, it's all about who gets the most clicks, and obviously, common sense has no place, it doesn't make you want to click.

What's ironic is that Xbox has more exclusive games than PS, and there are more former PlayStation exclusives on Xbox than the other way around (FF X and other FF games, Genshin Impact, Forspoken, Sifu, Kena, Death Stranding and the future Death Stranding 2, MLB The Show, Like a Dragon, Persona, Solar Ash, Kingdom Hearts, Metal Gear Solid, No Man's Sky, Rollerdrome, etc.). And there will certainly be more soon, like Black Myth Wukong, Helldivers, Lego Horizon, etc.

Isn't it strange that no one talks about it? The reality is that the number of PlayStation exclusives is shrinking, and they will have fewer and fewer in the future, as third-party publishers want to limit themselves to a single machine less and less, or at least not for long. And they produce very few first party games.. remakes aside

 

[fjtorres5591]

People forget MS was making PC games long before there was an XBOX (or MSX home computer) and was still making them in parallel to the XBOX. They didn't bring those games to console because the markets were and still are to an extent different. It is only recently that games like FLIGHT SIMULATOR and AGE OF EMPIRES have made it to console.

And similarly, MS console games skipped the PC market because, realistically, what role might games like FUZION FRENZY, KAMEO, and CONKER have on PC?

It was only after BETHESDA brought MORROWIND to the OG XBOX that it became clear that the XBOX customer base, unlike NINTENDO and SONY was open to more elaborate genres. Over time the two customer bases have taken on characteristics of the other but even today some genres like CRPGs and survival games are more likely to be found on PC.

Also forgotten, but leading to an entirety different discussion, is that the XBOX is and has always been a PC in disguise. So when MS switched from PowerPC to x86, it only made sense to repurpose the XBOX games to the PC market to rake in more cash.

Because first, second, and last, MS is in gaming to make money, not to please pundits or fen. And if they can use those same games to suck money out of Sony's customers' pockets, why not? CALL OF DUTY and MINECRAFT make good money there and by all reports, SEA OF THIEVES does too. (HI FI RUSH, however, didn't. It went the same way as ASTROBOT.) Now which game does HORIZON most resemble? That is why it is going there instead of HELLBLADE 2, which is a one and done single player game instead of an online multiplayer live service title, the kind of game SONY pines for. A time sink rainmaker instead of a short 10-hour tour de force.

No need to try to square the circle there.
It's all about the money.