Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?

[sirfly2fly]

But why would a person choose that? Business users prefer any device but BlackBerry when BYOD is offered.

When you say this though its in reference to BBOS not BB10, how can one prefer any device but BB10 when it isn't out? see my point...

 

[fatclue_98]

BB10 is just a copy of IOS and Android put together.

Some of the swipe features are cool, I'll give them that.

That home screen though Is like... Wtf? :/ It's like a failed live tiles.

BB10 is too late. The ONLY thing RIM has going for them is BBM. But one by one, people are slowly leaving.

Exactly which iPhone or Android phone has swipe features? webOS had the swipes and gestures. Personally, I couldn't consider any other phone than a BB simply because of the keyboard.

 

[ClixT]

And RIM sold more BlackBerry phones in this past quarter than Nokia has sold Lumias in its entire run.

You're comparing ALL off RIM's sales to Nokia's Lumia line.. Nokia sold way more phones the RIM did..

"BlackBerry smartphone shipments declined in Q3 2012; the company shipped 6.9 million smartphones" (dazeinfo.com).
"[Nokia] Mobile Phones Q3 volumes increased quarter-on-quarter to 77 million units; strong sales start for new Asha full touch smartphones, with volumes of 6.5 million units" (Nokia)

Yeah I know it's about BB10 v Lumia WP8. I think we should wait for BB10 to get released.
Then we compare and contrast the numbers. (BB10's 1st 3 month sales v Lumia WP8 1st 3 month sales)
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[squire777]

The thing that made Blackberry phones popular was that you could use BBM and exchange messages without a data connection. With everyone now having data plans it probably doesn't matter.

I don't see RIM getting out of 4th place at this point in time.

 

[Napocensis]

I am tired about hearing the buzz word "ecosystem". Except for Skydrive, what is so amazing about the WP8 integration with a Windows environment?

WP8 does not have a file manager which is a standard feature in Windows, while BBOS does have one. In WP8, you cannot even take a PDF and attach it to an email.

Outlook/Exchange belong to MS, but WP8 does not allow one to open Calendar attachments. In fact, it does not even show any attachments, one needs to use a computer to find out that the meeting request had attachments. BB on the other hand can easily handle that.

WP8 is a great entertainment tool, but has a lot to learn from RIM in terms of business user needs. I really like the amazing built of Nokia phone, the slickness and speed of WP8 and I truly hope WP8 improves soon. I need my phone to be more than an extension to my Xbox.

With that in mind, I would not count RIM out.

 

[stephen_az]

True, but Surface sales are hardly setting the world on fire.

Where are your data on sales figures? BTW, responding with XXXXXXX said so NOT an answer.

 

[stephen_az]

I'm starting to worry a bit.

I played with a colleague's "Developer Alpha" version of the BB10 OS, and I had a couple of observations:

1) In Alpha form, BB10 is more complete and less buggy than release-day WP8 was. It has a better music player, and the experience is just as smooth and sexy.

2) RIM took its time to "get everything right." They've ramped up hardware production, they have every major carrier in the US and worldwide supporting their launch (unlike WP) and there are unlikely to be device shortages, regardless of demand. They also spent time to fix and tweak every element of the software experience.

3) RIM is launching with over 100,000 apps in the BB10 store.

4) RIM is making it easy for Android apps to be ported over to native BB10. That means that apps like Instagram and others will be reasonably easy to develop for BB10, and will arrive for that platform long before we get them.

5) RIM, the principal hardware company for BlackBerry, is profitable (as of last quarter) and cash-flow-positive. Nokia, the principal hardware company for Windows Phone, is bleeding cash fast.

6) RIM is supporting carrier-independent OTA updates, just like Apple and Google. That means that any bugs that do occur can be fixed quickly, without a Portico-style "is my phone going to get it or not" mess.

I was super-impressed with the UI, slickness, and overall polish of BB10. I am getting worried... this OS could be good enough to push Microsoft out of third place.

Microsoft needs to step up its game. Third place is NOT guaranteed.

Is RIM paying you for this ad? That is all it is. You are the first person I have heard say any of this outside of the crackberry cult members. Quite frankly much of what you have said is also simply untrue. Leaving taking their time to get it right and number of apps blather aside, RIM is not independent of the carriers in the US and the only Google products that have any degree of carrier independence is the Nexus line. Android devices that make up most of the market share are NOT Nexus devices. That end of the market is horribly fragmented with no guarantee of updates from either carrier or OEM. Apple interim OS updates have also been few and far between - something you still refuse to acknowledge. Oh, has Apple fixed is map app yet? How about Siri? That one has been around for more than a year. As for RIM financials, I would hardly call them to be a recipe for success. If the launch does not stabilize RIM's position, they will be bought for their technology and patents within a year. Personally I doubt the launch will go well since the only people who seem to think it is the next great thing are the crackberry cult. Most of the comments I have heard have stressed that it is aesthetically unappealing and borrows heavily and badly from Android and Windows Phone. It doesn't even have a guaranteed marketing push from any US carrier and RIM is having to rewrite its fee structure to keep them on board at all. As for porting Android apps, ask the Playbook owners (if you can find many) about that amazing volume of ported Android apps. It doesn't exist and never will. I am sorry but your incessant whining about Portico has been at best silly - this is just attaching a RIM shill job to the whine....

 

[wazup113]

A lot of younger folks might be Xbox fans. Windows Phone might appeal to them for the Xbox tie-in.

Honestly i use xbox but i really dont see that as a bunch bonus. Xbox has an official app for both ios and android. Just dont see it that's all

 

[Blkacesvf41]

I'm also an ex-BlackBerry user. What I see as their biggest hurdle is that perception that anything BlackBerry is so yesterday. If the big time apps that the masses want are not onboard come launch, they're not going anywhere.

 

[BrutalSC]

The problem is that BB is all alone. Doing the marketing, and developing hardware and software all alone against the competitors with the little income they have these days will be hard. And while some say that it still has strong sales and sells more in a quater than Lumia during its lifetime (which clearly is false) its mostly in markets that are not that important (outside US, EU, China). Second, BB10 will be quite productivity orientated. BB10 wont be too exciting for consumers.And these days employees want phones that please them as a worker as well as a consumer, therefore it wont be as successful among business people as previously. So I think BB10 will have limited success mostly in the US and some previously BB heavy markets like UK. A WP killer it is not, although it certainly wont help.

 

[sirfly2fly]

what are you basing your "wont be too exciting for consumers" off of? 720p screen, Blackberry world allowing the purchase of music, movies and apps, more and better apps...

 

[X0LARIUM]

>Innovative Idea > iOS> Android> BB10

>Innovative Idea >Windows Phone


Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.

 

[Laura Knotek]

what are you basing your "wont be too exciting for consumers" off of? 720p screen, Blackberry world allowing the purchase of music, movies and apps, more and better apps...

But could that music and movies be played on other devices such as a PC or Mac?

 

[sirfly2fly]

We won't know until BB10 is released, they are using 7digital for music and Rovi entertainment for Movies and TV shows. We haven't seen what they're doing as far as cloud goes but they own NewBay and their services and software are already on PC/Mac, iOS/Android/WP8. These recent purchases and partnerships they made up to the release of BB10 will play a big role in its "ecosystem".

 

[brmiller1976]

You're comparing ALL off RIM's sales to Nokia's Lumia line.. Nokia sold way more phones the RIM did..

I am comparing smartphones to smartphones. Asha and other non WP/Symbian devices are feature phones, not smartphones.

Right now, RIM is far stronger, financially, than Nokia.

 

[X0LARIUM]

I am comparing smartphones to smartphones. Asha and other non WP/Symbian devices are feature phones, not smartphones.

Right now, RIM is far stronger, financially, than Nokia.

Sad. But true.

Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.

 

[AMERICANRAJ]

Ask Mark Cuban, he just switched from an iphone to Nokia Lumia 920

 

[BrutalSC]

Sad. But true.

Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.

I hardly think RIM is better off financially even if its absolute loss is larger...

 

[dogfish54]

From what I have seen, BB10 looks very good. At first glance, the android app portability feels like a huge positive, but it's only so if the OS/Hardware is better than android, otherwise you are best off just getting android device. I understand SOME business users will look at it, especially if RIM provide incentives, but others are just sick of waiting.

Here are some random thoughts:

* The biggest issue - the OS may be superior, but will have limited market reach (high-end only) due to price at the start, this will not be well received in their strongest markets; they are targeting their weakest market (the iphone5, SIII and to a lesser extent Lumia 920 crowd). It will likely be at the 199 on contract pricing and over 600 MSRP. Their biggest markets will keep buying their old stuff at the lower price points... for a while ... until the low-end Android and WP7/8 devices continue to gain popularity
* RIM have done a pretty poor job in the past, BB7 devices were buggy and just not very good overall (in my opinion). People remember that and BB7 owners are less likely to upgrade.
* The camera software tech is from Scalado, Nokia bought that company, so their will be limits to any big new advances for them there
* No 'halo effect' from other devices / ecosystem. Windows 8 will sell in the hundreds of millions, even if it's less popular than previous versions.
* Windows Phone has a huge head start
* Blackberry does have the high-security market cornered and will get that business

And finally:

* Blackberry will likely screw something up in a way that we haven't thought of yet

 

[Randy Jones]

I agree about missing the small "apps". I switched to WP7 a year ago and was convinced I would stay with it. However, I miss the "Bedside Mode" on my BB, and BB10 looks interesting enough, I think I may have to reconsider.