Current devices WILL NOT get Apollo.

[mparker]

Pardon my ignorance on this subject, but aren't they already kind of doing that vis a vis the Windows 8 on ARM part of their Win 8 development? I am assuming much of the Windows 8 work (at least the Windows 8 on ARM part) is applicable to WP 8. However I am admittedly ignorant of the technical details and may be conflating two entirely difference things - Win 8 and WP 8.

You're conflating two different things. WP8 will be able to take advantage of the tablet drivers and OS work, but that doesn't help the problem with legacy WP7 devices. Those devices won't have the necessary bootloaders and drivers unless somebody (the manufacturers) takes the time and money to write and test them.

 

[canesfan625]

You're conflating two different things. WP8 will be able to take advantage of the tablet drivers and OS work, but that doesn't help the problem with legacy WP7 devices. Those devices won't have the necessary bootloaders and drivers unless somebody (the manufacturers) takes the time and money to write and test them.

Slippery slope for them. While they could pass on writing drivers for Apollo (if that's the only thing it comes down to) in favor of forcing people to buy new devices but I wonder how many people are in the beginning and middle of contracts. Not a good time to make people angry.

 

[mparker]

Not a good time to make people angry.

I agree. But if that happens at the same time as Windows 8 comes out with the shiny new ultrabooks and shiny new laptops and shiny new phones, there's a reasonable chance that the screams of agony from the jilted WP7 owners will be drowned out by the screams of delighted "ohhh shiny!" from everybody else.

The key to this strategy is that Win8 had better be seriously effing awesome. I've been running Win8 CP on my Lenovo XP220T (convertible tablet) since it came out and I'd have to say it's pretty close to "seriously effing awesome".

Edit: The second key to this strategy is making sure the WP7 owners don't find out they're jilted until the "oooh shiny" screams start...

 

[canesfan625]

I agree. But if that happens at the same time as Windows 8 comes out with the shiny new ultrabooks and shiny new laptops and shiny new phones, there's a reasonable chance that the screams of agony from the jilted WP7 owners will be drowned out by the screams of delighted "ohhh shiny!" from everybody else.

The key to this strategy is that Win8 had better be seriously effing awesome. I've been running Win8 CP on my Lenovo XP220T (convertible tablet) since it came out and I'd have to say it's pretty close to "seriously effing awesome".

Its going to have to be a never before seen brand of awesome. Alienate early adopters in the same exact way that Google did by giving G1 owners a giant middle finger and you'll be sitting around waiting for new sales for some time unless its power of awesome possesses you.

Android was cool but after that stunt I passed. Went straight to WP. Neither T-mobile or google seemed to give a flying **** about Android outgrowing internal storage.

 

[nopre]

I don't expect the full-on MOJO for my trophy but I'm sure MSFT will throw me a bone. It's a fine OS that is lacking very little.

I would like to MMS pictures and maybe a little more control over ringers and such but I'm not holding my breath on flash support...

 

[canesfan625]

I don't expect the full-on MOJO for my trophy but I'm sure MSFT will throw me a bone. It's a fine OS that is lacking very little.

I would like to MMS pictures and maybe a little more control over ringers and such but I'm not holding my breath on flash support...

Mobile Flash was killed by adobe. I forget what their new platform is now but it revolves around HTML 5

 

[snowmutt]

First off- I expect 2nd Gen to get the update- new kernal or not. Obviously, they will not send out an update that will make my Focus S a hi-def screen and multi-core device. So, no- not all aspects of WP8 will work. This is even more true of 1st Gen devices. But, MS wants to have an ecosystem- not just an OS. They want you to have WP8 on your PC/laptop and go out and buy a tablet as well. If your phone makes you happy and is supported, you are more likely to support Microsoft products across the board. Bank on it: all WP devices will be supported to some degree.

Secondly: Will all of us shrivel up and throw away our phones if they don't? Has Android been hurt by less than half of their devices not getting updated? LG released the Revolution on Verizon with LTE and Froyo when Gingerbread was the rage and it still sold. All WP devices roll like a bowling ball down a just-oiled lane and perform great on 7.XXX. I will love my "S" just as much, even if I get left behind by MS.

Which I won't.

Neither will you.

They will upgrade.

Beers on me when they do.

 

[Winterfang]

If Apollo doesn't blow my mind I'm getting an iphone.

Why should we have worse specked phones, less features, less apps, more expensive apps and yet pay the same as iphone/android owners? It's a downright rip-off. I'll recommend the Radar 4G/Focus Flash over any cheap Android there, but against the hight contenders Windows Phone doesn't cut it.

 

[cckgz4]

I see this as the iOS 5 update (I believe). iPhone 3GS is still supported but can't use all of the new features, and the next update will completely leave it out IMO and the 4 will be lacking all of the full features

 

[AngryNil]

What I don't get is why some believe that older devices will be incompatible with Apollo due to screen resolution and processor. Is Microsoft really going to release the Windows Phone 8 platform without the ability to push downstream, as Nokia wants to do?

 

[eastbayrae]

What I don't get is why some believe that older devices will be incompatible with Apollo due to screen resolution and processor. Is Microsoft really going to release the Windows Phone 8 platform without the ability to push downstream, as Nokia wants to do?

Assume you get the update. What are you expecting? From what I have seen very few of the features, that will come with it, will even work on current 2 gen phones(NFC, etc.). Other then a re-skinning of the UI I doubt you would notice much difference between what you have now and WP8.

 

[mparker]

What I don't get is why some believe that older devices will be incompatible with Apollo due to screen resolution and processor. Is Microsoft really going to release the Windows Phone 8 platform without the ability to push downstream, as Nokia wants to do?

The screen resolution is unlikely to be a factor, but I think you're oversimplifying the potential problems elsewhere. ARM CPUs aren't like x86s. These are System-on-a-Chip (SoC) designs, meaning it's got CPU, GPU, bus controller, radios, memory, etc all on that one one single chip that we colloquially call "the processor". Besides the feature creep, there are power, battery, and radio management issues that are specific to each SoC and very important to get right.

Beyond that, the WinCE kernel is a direct descendant of code that is contemporaneous with Windows 95. The WinCE kernel has about as much in common with Windows 8 as it does with DOS. So this isn't just an upgraded kernel, these two kernel have completely different set of assumptions about the capabilities of the machine, assumptions that were baked in years (or decades) ago.

One of those assumptions that appears to be baked into Windows 8 ARM edition is the new UEFI BIOS. They can possibly unbake it in order to help put WP8 on legacy devices, but risk introducing security holes if they do so. And this still wouldn't help the device driver situation (distressingly analogous to the Vista fiasco, since WinCE uses the old-style device driver system while Win8 uses the Vista device driver system).

It's impressive that the old apps will still run on WP8, testament to the abilities of .NET to insulate the application from the details of the underlying OS. But the OS's insulation from the hardware is the bootloader and device drivers, and Microsoft tossed that out with Vista.

 

[canesfan625]

but isn't UEFI a protocol and not a feature? OEMs can even allow secured booting to be disabled in the bios if they so choose.

 

[mparker]

but isn't UEFI a protocol and not a feature? OEMs can even allow secured booting to be disabled in the bios if they so choose.

Microsoft isn't allowing this in Win 8 ARM. I don't know what all of their reasons are. Virus resistance is certainly one of them, but it's possible that there are licensing agreements for media content that require this as well. Loosening this restriction is possible, but there will almost certainly be changes needed in the OS to deal with it, changes that will need coding and testing that takes time away from the main thrust of the project. And the UEFI secure boot feature needs hardware support (it isn't pure software), hardware that may not be in the current handsets (or at least not sufficient for UEFI's needs). My point is that even if it's *possible* it isn't necessarily in Microsoft's best interests to do it, they are a big company but they aren't omnipotent and they're doing major work on the server, desktop, tablet, and phone fronts. If it came down to shipping WP8 without support for legacy devices vs slipping WP8 till Q4 next year (or not having a Win8 kernel WP8 at all), then I'm not sure I can fault them for choosing door "A".

 

[canesfan625]

Microsoft isn't allowing this in Win 8 ARM. I don't know what all of their reasons are. Virus resistance is certainly one of them, but it's possible that there are licensing agreements for media content that require this as well. Loosening this restriction is possible, but there will almost certainly be changes needed in the OS to deal with it, changes that will need coding and testing that takes time away from the main thrust of the project. And the UEFI secure boot feature needs hardware support (it isn't pure software), hardware that may not be in the current handsets (or at least not sufficient for UEFI's needs). My point is that even if it's *possible* it isn't necessarily in Microsoft's best interests to do it, they are a big company but they aren't omnipotent and they're doing major work on the server, desktop, tablet, and phone fronts. If it came down to shipping WP8 without support for legacy devices vs slipping WP8 till Q4 next year (or not having a Win8 kernel WP8 at all), then I'm not sure I can fault them for choosing door "A".

MS_NERD tweeted that Apollo is being tested on the Lumia 610. For what it's worth he has a pretty excellent track record on his leaks.

 

[ejb222]

Beers on me when they do.

I'M GOING TO HOLD YOU TO THIS!

 

[mkr10001]

Microsoft can write the drivers themselves. They don't need the OEMs if they really want to get Apollo to current devices.

ok

 

[AzD]

Assume you get the update. What are you expecting? From what I have seen very few of the features, that will come with it, will even work on current 2 gen phones(NFC, etc.). Other then a re-skinning of the UI I doubt you would notice much difference between what you have now and WP8.

You'll notice when none of the new apps work with your old phone.

 

[rockstarzzz]

Guys how about this twist in the story now? - Windows Phone 8 Beta Report: What Features Are In Place?


Remember just 2-3 days back we also heard about Lumia 610 + Apollo combo and we laughed at it (I know I did!) but now this one has come across. May will be a month of warm rumours and June a month of announcements. The rumour also has it that with Tango's launch in June, MSFT will start hinting about Apollo as beta is already floating in the inside circles.

 

[canesfan625]

Guys how about this twist in the story now? - Windows Phone 8 Beta Report: What Features Are In Place?


Remember just 2-3 days back we also heard about Lumia 610 + Apollo combo and we laughed at it (I know I did!) but now this one has come across. May will be a month of warm rumours and June a month of announcements. The rumour also has it that with Tango's launch in June, MSFT will start hinting about Apollo as beta is already floating in the inside circles.

I wouldn't laugh at something that ms_nerd says. He seems to be magical with his leaks.