Developer of 2+ years and user of 3+ years; closer to switching than ever

[anon(5928073)]

Microsofties clearly value their personal logic over market realities. Sinofsky clearly wasn't the only one living in his own little world some light years away from Earth. Heck, some Microsoft execs actually think a Lumia is labelled as "Nokia Lumia XXX running on Microsoft Windows Phone 8 dot one"), *NO ONE SAYS THAT, Microsoft!!*

Seriously, I have to ask, are they actually void of real business development people? How the heck do you *intentionally* miss enterprise on Windows Phone 7 when you had all the groundwork on Windows Mobile? How the heck do you make a platform that at one point was incapable of supporting modern mobile games when you have Xbox? How on heck do you agree to propose always online when the internet roared NO at the leaks? How do you not introduce compelling budget-friendly Windows Phone when the Lumia 520 was your best flyer?

Microsoft unable (or is unwilling) to read the market.

Anyways, the market has clearly moved towards the paradigm where the smartphone is basically a PC in your pocket (i.e. Android). Users have grown accustomed to (whether they like it or not) to see apps run fully in the background, to access many parts of the OS, to customize, to hook up peripherals such as full keyboards and mice, etc.

Is this the best solution to mobile? Perhaps not, but it's clearly where the market is headed, and with Android's 70-90%+ marketshare the expectation is that vendors (of apps, peripherals, etc) will build their ideas and solutions around Android's paradigm. If Microsoft is serious about getting Windows Phone some traction, it needs to alter Windows Phones to meet the general expectations and beliefs of developers, vendors and OEMs. This should have been achieved with Windows Phone 8, but no, Microsoft decided to stick with its personal worldview and utterly screw up, again, for the umpteenth time.

Just like how Microsoft managed to step away from its paradigm and transition Windows Mobile to the touch-friendly, full-screen Windows Phone, it needs to grow up (seriously...) and transition Windows Phone to basically Windows in a Phone. Think of it as, instead of forcing the user to grow up to the phone (i.e. Android), you let the phone grow with the user, like a friend or partner (i.e. Windows Phone). You make Windows Phone the companion, for everything in your life, and you depend on it take on bigger and more complex tasks if and when the time comes.

Take the Android model and offer a different sub-paradigm. Perhaps instead of exposing everything about the OS and burdening the user with a lot of work in organizing their phone, start out with a pre-set system and leave the extra power to those who have the minds to find and use it (e.g. enthusiasts). Perhaps revamp the Windows Phone Store model and have real professionals ensuring that spam and crap doesn't get through. Perhaps listen to what the market is telling you and not rush to create your own File Manager app after 3+ third party developers beat you to it.

Goodness sake Microsoft, GROW UP.

....and for the sake for all that is rational, introduce a mid-end Lumia with the specs of Moto G but with LTE and a PureView camera for $300-350 already. Come on.

This has to be one of the most well thought out responses to a forum post I have ever seen. I love it. All of the points stated here are valid. I really DO think Windows is very good at catching up and the OS is awesome, but it could be way better.. I mean WAY better. Its not the fact that being late is better than never, its the fact that being late has caused them to throw out half-baked OS updates.

Sure 8.1 seems like a full-fledged update, but that's because they put themselves in a place where they NEEDED to push an update like this or the platform would be dead. The product is still very good, but if you need to push updates with that much in them... that's where it gets concerning. Look at android for example, how big of an update was 4.4 to 4.4.2? Barely anything, but it improved the user experience and made the OS much smoother. They are ahead of they game so they don't need to improve much every time they push an update.

Finally. The worst thing you can say is "oh the platform has only been introduced "X" amount of years ago". No... please don't. They knew the market that they had to compete with.. They are just introducing controls for separate music and notification volumes, AND Skype barely even works like a native app.. C'mon... Thank you Blizkh for that thoughtful post.

.... And yes. They should introduce phones with specs like that, at that price point... But instead they have a low-end, a kind of low-end and a really high end... Not the smartest idea I've ever heard of.

 

[Xpider_MX]

I really really hope MS don't copy anything from Android. WP8.1 if perfect for me, IMO I don't need anything from Android.

And for the "not resuming" screens, I'm really sure they was referring to the new apps developed for Windows 8.1, not old WP8.0 apps, and they was referring to the full OS, with firmware drivers and optimizations.

 

[Mike Gibson]

The problem is, that FAR is not a solution to this issue, since all the apps you launch and don't start from their splash screen, already implement FAR. I keep a small hope that re-compiling apps for WP8.1 will address this, but that's an unacceptable solution to me as a user. Sure, for my apps as a developer, I will do this. But if history is any indication, you can be sure that the majority of developers won't bother.

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here. My WP80 app uses FAR and it works fine on WP81. Are you saying that most apps do not use FAR?

Anyway, I think there are far worse problems with WinPRT. For example, why is a phone with 512 MB of system memory considered "memory constrained" in WP8. Ten years ago the typical PC didn't have much more memory than that and we managed to run all sorts of complex programs simultaneously. I guess that WP8x doesn't have the concept of a swap file to handle memory limitations (swapping to Flash would be far better than swapping to a HD). Instead, we as devs are stuck with absolutely ridiculous things like having to prepare our WP81 apps to be shut down and restarted when we call the freaking FilePicker API. Design and implementation incompetence of that magnitude proves to me that the MSFT of today is but a shadow of the company we once knew. They do not deserve our loyalty anymore than IBM or any other mega company. Note that I have a personal loyalty based on the ancient past but even I'm looking around (I vowed that I would never spend a dime on AAPL products ... that vow's being stressed now).

And the split between WinRT and WinPRT was ridiculous to begin with. Why would MSFT produce a version of RT for PCs (WinRT), which operates in a full PC environment yet is critically limited, that's not compatible with their phone API, WinPRT??? Again, incompetence. I won't even mention the awful texture size limitation on a TextBox in WinPRT. The solution to that problem was discovered decades ago.

Ugh, I'm hoping/praying that sanity sweeps over MSFT between now and Windows 9. If it doesn't then we can stick a fork in MSFT.

 

[luk3ja]

I'll keep this short since I know my post will probably annoy most people here and will end up getting buried. I apologize in advance for the rant; I guess I just want to vent.

Like everyone else around here, I was waiting anxiously for 8.1. Sure Cortana is cool, action center is useful, but above all, what I wanted was the simple stuff: real instant resuming of apps, and some kind of persistence of connections for apps not in the foreground. So I install 8.1 as soon as it came out, and to my surprise, despite Microsoft claiming that there is no more "resuming..." for 1GB devices, I get more of it than before. Not only that, but now there is a newly introduced "loading..." screen occasionally for system apps.

I've been trying to ignore it and thinking that I am maybe over-reacting, and then I made the mistake of reading Joe's AMA today. Either because of not knowing (doubtful?), or as a PR response, Joe kept repeating over and over again about Fast App Resume being the solution to this issue (it was brought up quite a bit), and that it's up to devs to fix it in their apps. He didn't acknowledge this as a problem, which means this issue is nowhere on the radar of the team there. The problem is, that FAR is not a solution to this issue, since all the apps you launch and don't start from their splash screen, already implement FAR. I keep a small hope that re-compiling apps for WP8.1 will address this, but that's an unacceptable solution to me as a user. Sure, for my apps as a developer, I will do this. But if history is any indication, you can be sure that the majority of developers won't bother. Thus end users will end up with the same subpar experience and "waiting" game, that has been going on since I got my Samsung Focus.

And then you have apps like Skype, where leaving the app momentarily and returning to it, causes it to drop any active connection and force it to re-authenticate. This truly hurts its use as a messaging app. It is very unlikely that this is an app issue, but it's still yet another case of the multitasking capabilities on WP not being flexible enough. Skype is just an example; a ton of apps suffer because of not having this capability.

Anyway, this is getting long so I'll just stop here. Fingers crossed that I will be proven wrong, and by the time 8.1 hits devices, all the above issues will disappear. As it stands now, switching to another platform as a user seems closer than ever. And believe me when I say that I don't want to!

The resuming issue has been fixed for new Store apps, apps written using the WinRT app model, because the life cycle and called events are different to the Silverlight apps. If you test resuming all WinRT apps on the phone then youll notice they resume instantly!!! It's amazing! They can't fix the current Silverlight apps without breaking them and I don't know about Silverlight 8.1 apps but back to testing the WinRT apps yourself just to prove to you that they resume INSTANTLY every time! I've been waiting for this day for years!

Some 8.1 WinRT apps, open them all one by one and then return to them one by one...
- Reading List
- Podcasts
- Pocket Explorer
- Compass 8.1
- Movie Moments
- Remote Desktop

We will have to wait on the other apps, the new Skype and Facebook updates I pray will be 8.1 Store apps and not silverlight

 

[ronty]

Microsofties clearly value their personal logic over market realities. Sinofsky clearly wasn't the only one living in his own little world some light years away from Earth. Heck, some Microsoft execs actually think a Lumia is labelled as "Nokia Lumia XXX running on Microsoft Windows Phone 8 dot one"), *NO ONE SAYS THAT, Microsoft!!*

Seriously, I have to ask, are they actually void of real business development people? How the heck do you *intentionally* miss enterprise on Windows Phone 7 when you had all the groundwork on Windows Mobile? How the heck do you make a platform that at one point was incapable of supporting modern mobile games when you have Xbox? How on heck do you agree to propose always online when the internet roared NO at the leaks? How do you not introduce compelling budget-friendly Windows Phone when the Lumia 520 was your best flyer?

Microsoft unable (or is unwilling) to read the market.

Anyways, the market has clearly moved towards the paradigm where the smartphone is basically a PC in your pocket (i.e. Android). Users have grown accustomed to (whether they like it or not) to see apps run fully in the background, to access many parts of the OS, to customize, to hook up peripherals such as full keyboards and mice, etc.

Is this the best solution to mobile? Perhaps not, but it's clearly where the market is headed, and with Android's 70-90%+ marketshare the expectation is that vendors (of apps, peripherals, etc) will build their ideas and solutions around Android's paradigm. If Microsoft is serious about getting Windows Phone some traction, it needs to alter Windows Phones to meet the general expectations and beliefs of developers, vendors and OEMs. This should have been achieved with Windows Phone 8, but no, Microsoft decided to stick with its personal worldview and utterly screw up, again, for the umpteenth time.

Just like how Microsoft managed to step away from its paradigm and transition Windows Mobile to the touch-friendly, full-screen Windows Phone, it needs to grow up (seriously...) and transition Windows Phone to basically Windows in a Phone. Think of it as, instead of forcing the user to grow up to the phone (i.e. Android), you let the phone grow with the user, like a friend or partner (i.e. Windows Phone). You make Windows Phone the companion, for everything in your life, and you depend on it take on bigger and more complex tasks if and when the time comes.

Take the Android model and offer a different sub-paradigm. Perhaps instead of exposing everything about the OS and burdening the user with a lot of work in organizing their phone, start out with a pre-set system and leave the extra power to those who have the minds to find and use it (e.g. enthusiasts). Perhaps revamp the Windows Phone Store model and have real professionals ensuring that spam and crap doesn't get through. Perhaps listen to what the market is telling you and not rush to create your own File Manager app after 3+ third party developers beat you to it.

Goodness sake Microsoft, GROW UP.

....and for the sake for all that is rational, introduce a mid-end Lumia with the specs of Moto G but with LTE and a PureView camera for $300-350 already. Come on.

It's probably the best criticism of the situation of WP & Microsoft I've ever read.

 

[Reebs Reebs]

I don't think this is really relevant. My apps are also neither "catchy", or anything that most of the crowd here would cheer for. However, I will provide a link. I have peaked at the #1 spot in the paid apps section of one of my categories, and I've consistently been somewhere up there in my categories.

Apps from apoelin | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)

I actually looked for a way to delete my post after putting it up, but I didn't see one. The situation is what it is, and there is not any point in me ranting about it. Some users and/or devs will come to the platform, others will leave; that's life!

Thank YOU SO MUCH for developing these APPS! MetroTalk is my most favorite app hands down! THANK YOU! You're an example I use for great apps development and you continuously provided updates to your MetroTalk APP even after Google announced shutting down the APIs soon. Whatever your decision will be, just know that your work has been greatly appreciated as a developer and made my switch to WP easier as Google Voice was a must for me.

It will be a huge loss for WP to loose a developer like you. I wish I could comment on the "Resume" issue on the development side, but I don't know enough. What I do know, is that it bothers me as well to some degree, but I guess I've learned to overcome it.

Bottom line, thank you again and again for what you've developed. Wish you all the best in whichever decision you make.

 

[Reebs Reebs]

Perhaps listen to what the market is telling you and not rush to create your own File Manager app after 3+ third party developers beat you to it.

Goodness sake Microsoft, GROW UP.

.

For some reason, I was pissed that MS launched a file manager. I was happy to see this as an opportunity for developers to make some money on a needed feature. Had MS launched as part of 8.1 preview, I wouldn't have cared at all. As a matter of fact, I really wanted a file manager to ship out with 8.1 Preview. I know that they still launched the file manager before the official release, but so what! Let developers get a piece of the pie. It's not like WP is such an open platform like Android for developers to have a million way to customize the OS and make money.

 

[bilzkh]

For some reason, I was pissed that MS launched a file manager. I was happy to see this as an opportunity for developers to make some money on a needed feature. Had MS launched as part of 8.1 preview, I wouldn't have cared at all. As a matter of fact, I really wanted a file manager to ship out with 8.1 Preview. I know that they still launched the file manager before the official release, but so what! Let developers get a piece of the pie. It's not like WP is such an open platform like Android for developers to have a million way to customize the OS and make money.

Honestly... It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft tried burying the whole file manager issue in the 11th hour.

 

[diktea]

but that means you must have switched to it a month before 8.1 even came out right?

i am still using L620 with Windows Phone 8.1 developers preview installed... it was lagging too much, had hard reset,... its working a little better now hope final release with firmware update smoothen things over... but for now it is not worth using as my daily driver.