[Discussion] No flagship Lumia phone coming before Windows 10, Microsoft confirms

[Talderon]

Discussion based on this article: No flagship Lumia phone coming before Windows 10, Microsoft confirms | PCWorld

[TL;DR] Me rambling...

Back in the day when Android was the thing, I had a new phone every few months. I HAD to have the latest and greatest and then I would Root it and do everything under the sun to make it mine (you can look up my posts on XDA and AndroidForums here).

With Windows Phone 8+, the devices are very pretty. The UI is (remember, this is my personal view) beautiful and easy. New features made it customizable to where I am happy. My phone does not look like anyone else's phone, even those with the same model. This makes me happy.

In my mobile journey, I have been fortunate to be able to deal with only the high-end flagship devices for all my device needs (even with Android devices in the past). I started the WP8 journey with a Lumia 920 and am now running a 1520. In the past, I would drive my wife mad with all my ramblings of how this phone is great and that phone is great and how I want to keep switching phones. With the 920, I broke my record. I had a single device, without switching at any point, for over a year. Then I went to the 1520, and it seems like I will break that record again.

Now, am I not switching because of the lack of better flagship phones? In truth, partially, yes. HOWEVER, this alone is not keeping me from switching. I carry 2 phones (personal and work) and my work phone is an Android (Note 4). I could easily transition to another platform and always stay current with the latest devices or keep up to date with the latest Android device, but I don't.

Why this change? Because high end devices are so much better than what they used to be that they have a longer shelf life in consumers hands. Manufacturers can, and do, take a little longer to chrun out new flagship devices because things aren't changing as fast. There is only so much you can pack into a hand-held device and only so much better you can make it that it's just slowing down because it takes a lot longer to come up with something that will drive the consumer trend to your devices.

This takes me to the topic of this post, Does it really matter that there will be no new flagship devices until Windows 10?

No. Not at all. There are enough flagship devices out there that STILL rate on the High-End even when compared to NEW flagship devices on other platforms to still stay relevant. The new OS will breathe new life into those devices and pave the way to even better ones in the future.

I think it is one of the smarter moves that Microsoft is making when it comes to the Lumia line. Other device vendors appear to be following suit and I really think that is a good thing. With new chips coming out that add even more features that could change the device landscape even further? Waiting is the smart thing to do.

Ok, so for those of you that managed to get through this all the way to the end. Thanks for reading, but I REALLY want to know what others things. I have some unique perspectives on things with not only having been on the inside, but still have contacts on the inside that I talk too that allow me to keep some insider perspectives into different things.

 

[Stiv X]

Well said.

 

[MDMcAtee]

I totally disagree with your perspective of not needing a flagship WP right now , but respect your right to it.

I too have had mostly all of the flagship phones on Android and traded my AT&T 1520 for the m8.

In the past with Android, all the way back to Cup Cake I needed to be able to root just for being able to get a better radio reception or GPS signal, and not to mention being able to customize the themes to my personal preference. The m8 and various launchers has cured my needing to do this.

As to needing WP flagship phones like a successor to the 1520 or the 1020 right now they have overlooked the fact that many people are actually wanting to switch platforms and prefer having a phone that has the very best internals available to last them 18-24 months till their next purchase or contract renewal. Not having one available right now is costing them customers with the new Androids soon to be arriving in the stores and with the iPhone 6's available now. A top end flagship phone ensures that the hardware (or actually lack of hardware) won't ever be a issue as what has happened in the past with WP.

While the 1520 is a fantastic phone with all available updates and should be pretty stable for the next year, technology isn't sleeping but is continually marching forward and there are tons of people like myself who wants the very latest in technology for my personal use.

There are plenty of people like yourself who are happy accepting less and some even go as far as saying that the very latest components aren't needed for a WP and what these people are actually doing is giving Microsoft a pass to utilize less than the best or yesterday's technology and are very vocal in spreading this misinformation in which the general public assumes WP is are inferior devices. While you and I both know that this isn't true, it is this and the total lack of new flagships that is the root cause of the problem.

While this is a simplified answer it is in fact the truth. Microsoft has to be seen as a leader in this regard not as stragglers for the platform to be able to generate interest with top of the line phones available everywhere.

The sad part is Microsoft has the money to do this and instead of showing the world they are the best... They are showing the world they are afraid of going head to head with the competition and are failing in their phone division.

I understand that they are trying something new by trying re-education but they are going about it all wrong. The perception of the people won't change when it comes to cheap products vs the very best products... It's the very best what we are drawn to.

Cry me a river then build a bridge and get over it

 

[rhapdog]

I honestly thought this was going to be another whining rant. However, I'm impressed with the attitude.

Thanks for the post. Yes, I read all the way to the end. I must say, I agree with it all. No need for having to have a new flagship every 6 months or every year. If you upgraded every 6 months or even every single year to the "latest, greatest" processor, there just would not be enough performance increase to justify the upgrade at that point, other than very minor bragging rights.

With the smoothness and fluidity of Windows Phone 8.1, the higher end processors aren't even truly needed, so when you have one in a flagship, it just makes the flagship relevant for that much of a longer period of time.

 

[Stiv X]

Microsoft will release a new flagship with W10 on board later this year. This was said at MWC. So, don't worry. Microsoft will hail W10 and all the interconnecting of all devices it will be able to do to the high heavens. In fact, there should not be any real big announcements at the same time. So, they will get all the press. There will not be anyone left unaware of W10 once released. Anyway, the point is with WP8.1 there is no need to run out every time something is released to go get it. These devices continue to run well.

 

[theefman]

Sound argument but one problem is you're looking at it only from the perspective of a current WP user. Even then, WP users also want to have the latest and greatest, its just the way it is with most people who like tech and certainly with phone enthusiasts. So while you're right that the current WP flagships are capable enough they don't satisfy the urge to get something new, especially when there are competing devices coming out with new and better tech almost every month.

There's also the issue of WP visibility to non WP users. Flagships tend to get a lot of press and hype, lots of vs articles and so on, and without one WP basically isn't in the conversation when people are discussing new devices. That affects awareness of the platform and not in a positive way so that is another reason going without a flagship for so long isn't a good thing. For example, right now the talk is of the new galaxy's camera and how it compares to the iphone 6 and even though the 1520/930 probably are just as good if not better they aren't even mentioned. If a new version of the 1020 had been released within the last 3-6 months it would have definitely been part of the conversation which gives exposure to WP. But the reality is people are only talking about 2 platforms and that's a problem.

Practically as well, it seems the 1520 at least isn't being made anymore so its increasingly harder to come by, leaving the current flagship flag to be flown by the 930 and HTC's One. And while they are top notch devices they can rightly be seen as having "old" devices and even among WP users their appeal is not as strong as say, the 920 when it was the WP flagship. So while I see your point as a WP user, there are valid reasons why the lack of a flagship now is an issue for WP as a platform.

 

[Stiv X]

Oh I agree a flagship device is needed if for any other reason to showcase hardware capabilities to attract new users to the platform. I do agree flagships are important. I think MS should start announcing/teasing/leaking some information about the flagship devices that we can expect to come out. Positive buzz is always nice. However, I do think MS would do best to hold off actually releasing flagship devices until W10 is out sop they may be released with W10 already on them. Otherwise, they run the risk of carrier delay to releasing W10 to the devices. That is a headache no one wants to continue to deal with.

 

[OwenDL]

I agree! I'm very happy with my Icon(930), but I do want to see a flagship phone for one main reason. I feel like the flagship will be a final display of Microsoft's ability in the mobile market. They've consistently put out low and mid range phones, with unimpressive hardware, for people who can't afford the latest flagship of any brand. But when they release a flagship, I'm hoping to see some major leaps in not only physical appearance, but also hardware and hardware based features. For instance, thumb print unlocking. I see it as an unimportant feature, but things like that would just be an indication that Microsoft knows they need to create a product on the level of the mobile titans.

That being said, when I hear someone mention the next iPhone, which is supposed to be coming out fall 2015, I can't help but be amazed at the people who've had their iPhone 6 for just a few months and already want the newest toy. It amazes me how much needless spending there is when it comes to apple products, especially.

I just want Microsoft to create something absolutely astounding. If they wish to release a device that combines new hardware AND new software, so be it!

 

[HeyCori]

There are two sides to this argument and I agree with both.

Microsoft should of released some interim device between the 1520 and Windows 10. Even if it's just a refresh of 4.7-5 inch high end handsets. Granted, the HTC One came out in August of last year. Mysteriously, it's never part of the high end Windows Phone discussion. But I digress...

A high end handset is good for marketing purposes. It says, "Hey, you don't have to be jealous of your friend's device because you can have an equal device." Having that credibility is very important to people. Even if it is just a minor spec bump. Even if it's just to say more mega pixels!!!, it's still an important achievement to the average consumer. I think Microsoft is missing out by not having some sort of interim device just to say they have one.

On the flip side...

How many high-end flops does Microsoft need before it's okay to try a new strategy?

Question, which one of these high-end handsets sold better than the Lumia 520?

Lumia 920
Lumia 1020
Lumia 1520
Lumia Icon
Lumia 930
Lumia 928
HTC One M8
Ativ S

None of them have moved the market share needle. At least the 520 did something. Is it really that illogical that Microsoft would focus more on the product range that actually sold? It's why we keep getting these low-mid range refreshes in emerging markets. Microsoft would rather sell cheap phones in volume than expensive phones in single digits.

I think the biggest problem Microsoft has in the US is a poor relationship with carriers (which is likely more the fault of carriers than Microsoft).

Something like that Icon/930 should of been on every carrier just like the HTC One M8 is. They could of thrown in a Snapdragon 805 just to say they upgraded the specs. And marketing for those devices should never stop until the next refresh. That way they could have a "hero device" while also releasing a bevy low-mid range devices.

Would it of worked? As we've seen in the past, probably not, but I still think it would of been a smart play simply for the street cred. Still, I don't fault Microsoft for doing something other than repeating past failures. Hopefully, their Windows 10 handsets are truly innovative. If it's just a Snapdragon 810 and more megapixels!!!, then sorry, I'll stick with my 1520.

 

[Talderon]

Thanks all for the discussion.

Yeah, there have been some very valid points brought up and when the Android Revolution began back in the G1 days, the mobile technology was growing by leaps and bounds and it seemed like a new flagship phone was being released every couple months and the tech inside them was just really that much better with every device. This REALLY drove my (and some others) passions to just keep upgrading as fast as we could and as often as we could.

Just now. Everything has just slowed down. I mean, yeah, there are new things being released regularly but vendors are just not jumping and pushing out new devices like they used too.

I would LOVE to see a new flagship. I would LOVE to get something more shiny and neater than my 1520 packed with goodness.

But if I got one now and then the shiny was bigger and brighter in a few months when the NEW NEW flagships came out with the new OS and even more bells and whistles, I think I would be a bit dejected and have remorse for the purchase.

I think there would be a lot of people that would feel that way, so from that point, I think it's smart. That doesn't mean I don't want one, I can just respect the decision.

On the flip side, you have those of us that also have devices that are reaching the elderly status (yeah, I know, 1+ years is elderly for some reason), even though in many ways, they are very much technically equal or superior than the young guns showing up on the stage today. They just don't have the newest and flashy names that are being talked about now.

I want something new now, but I will wait without complaint, well, not much.

 

[MDMcAtee]

The problem as I said is perception. It effects the platform more than most people (especially diehard WP fans) would agree with.

Smartphones has replaced the desktop by millions of people worldwide. I understand that many can not afford a flagship phone, just as they can't afford a pc at home.

Having a option to have a smartphone with the very latest components inside is becoming increasingly easy and convenient and most people want the best one they can get especially if they can't afford to have both.

A interm Lumina flagship device that has all the bells and whistles that is available on all carriers... and that is the most important thing... available on all carriers... Is what is needed now more than anything else.

Waiting 6 months to get a flagship phone is crazy. It doesn't need to have windows 10 on it but the full blown 8.2 on it. If the phone was released today it's technology would be behind by a year in 6 months. As it is in 6 months the technology will already old.

Anytime there is this long of a delay in releasing a flagship your behind the curve. The only way that they can leapfrog this is to secure components not yet released and nothing or no one has even hinted to this.


They need a world wide flagship now to be in position to transition to another in the fall to compete with Apple's iPhone 7 with a full blown Windows 10 flagship.

Windows phone 8.2 on a 5-6" flagship phone right now would be the one to watch and get back the momentum lost. The 805 chipsets are great and the 810 chipsets are just a predecessor to the 820 in the fall. They don't have to go with the 810 which is what everyone except Samsung is going to use. The 820 and the Lumina camera will give 4k video a real usage... If all they do is release low-end devices with the Lumina name they will forever tarnish it's reputation in the publlics eyes.

They need a worldwide flagship phone with full Cortana capabilities now...

Cry me a river if you want but then build me bridge to get over it... Posted from my HTC M8

 

[WP7Nettwerk]

So I have to wait till Windows 10. I want back Windows Phone device. But to buying now 930 isn't good step.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ashram]

when I 1st jumped to WP7 (was on WP5&6 before, my contract (linked to my job) allowed me to upgrade yearly. The contract with my employer changed and now it's every 18 months.... and i have been waiting since June for a new flagship that isn't a phablet. i guess i can wait a bit longer

 

[peachy001]

I am of the mind that I may skip a summer flagship in favour of a winter 2015/Spring 820 phone. I'm willing to bet that the 940 and 940 xl happen in the summer, but the 1040 is the one that will rock an 820 Snapdragon.

At the moment I am enjoying being off contract. I am getting double data and unlimited minutes but paying half of the contract price.

The gap is a problem though. I can only speak for the UK, but when most get near the end of their contract the phone companies and retailers start to call and send emails. They don't want you sat waiting for a flagship, they want you tied in to a contract.

The carriers need a shove. They can make or break a phone. I sincerely hope that we see less carrier exclusives. A 935, launched worldwide with an 805 Snapdragon in and glance and a McLaren like body may have kept a few happy. Make it available on all carriers, and that could have been launched at MWC, and available the next day.

I do wish MS had been able to get HTC and some of the others to duel launch their handsets on WP and Android. That would have been more desirable than a 935. They could have cashed in on the hype generated. I have already had several emails telling me all about the new HTC and Samsung products

 

[MDMcAtee]

I am of the mind that I may skip a summer flagship in favour of a winter 2015/Spring 820 phone. I'm willing to bet that the 940 and 940 xl happen in the summer, but the 1040 is the one that will rock an 820 Snapdragon.

At the moment I am enjoying being off contract. I am getting double data and unlimited minutes but paying half of the contract price.

The gap is a problem though. I can only speak for the UK, but when most get near the end of their contract the phone companies and retailers start to call and send emails. They don't want you sat waiting for a flagship, they want you tied in to a contract.

The carriers need a shove. They can make or break a phone. I sincerely hope that we see less carrier exclusives. A 935, launched worldwide with an 805 Snapdragon in and glance and a McLaren like body may have kept a few happy. Make it available on all carriers, and that could have been launched at MWC, and available the next day.

I do wish MS had been able to get HTC and some of the others to duel launch their handsets on WP and Android. That would have been more desirable than a 935. They could have cashed in on the hype generated. I have already had several emails telling me all about the new HTC and Samsung products

Me too... They all want me to jump for a new HTC or Samsung and I really don't want to. My m8 works just fine for now as does my wife's m7...

I really hope Windows 10 fixes the issues I had with It especially now y with the new Spartan browser coming out...MX player is being worked on and If they would get Power Amp on board and fix the damn dialer .. Then I would switch back exclusively.

Cry me a river then build a bridge and get over it

 

[Blacklac]

Had they atleast came out with 1 Globally launched flagship early this year or end of last year, id have agreed. They should just wait. However, it has been so long since we had a new Flagship Lumia...

I'm kind of annoyed cause I'm on AT&T's Next plan. New phone every 12 months. I'll be due in July, and I'm sure there wont be a new WP available. On a Next/Edge plan, your literally wasting money if you don't upgrade. I mean, I'm coming from a 1520, there's literally nowhere to go from there. I'm pretty much accepting ill have to get a different platform this time and come back to WP next year. I'll still have my 1020 as a backup to play with WP10 at least.

Heck, if only Samsung would make a Note 4 that runs WP...

 

[Talderon]

It's good to see the perspectives and views of everyone who is participating. Everyone has different reasons that drive their purchasing decisions and Blacklac, thanks for bringing up that point on the AT&T Next Plan. I was sold into that because doing it actually LOWERED my bill significantly (and saying that paying almost $400/mo is good because it was lowered is saying something).

Regardless of the cost issues with staying on the next plan after my 12 month, there are still some benefits to waiting. I'm going to wait for the 1520 replacement and if something comes out in the winter season (as peachy001 mentioned), I guess I'll have to stick with what I have and live with it, or go rogue and fork out the cash for a new device.

Great thoughts all! Thanks again!

 

[Stiv X]

Just because you are on the Next plan doesn't mean you have to upgrade. You can continue to pay for 6 more months to own your phone outright. Then you can keep it for a backup or sell it for some cash. We know W10 flagship device coming out this year. We just don't know when, yet.

 

[Talderon]

Just because you are on the Next plan doesn't mean you have to upgrade. You can continue to pay for 6 more months to own your phone outright. Then you can keep it for a backup or sell it for some cash. We know W10 flagship device coming out this year. We just don't know when, yet.

Very true. I like to own my devices, it means that I can horde them. I mean, I have several filing cabinet drawers with phones from various decades in them (yes, in the original boxes, I keep that stuff). LOL!

 

[DatManWolf]

I have been waiting patiently for something to grab my attention. Seemed like when I grabbed my 920, Lumias were just flowing out like water. Fast forward to January this year where I can either Next plan it or the regular 2 year contract and there not much new on my carrier aside from the 830 and M8. While the M8 seemed good, I just really liked the Lumia camera system and the 830, while an upgrade, seemed like a minor one to have held out for 2 years. Then I look at the 1520 and think, well I could deal with that on a next plan, but for a 2 year old phone they still want a good chunk of money for it on the 12 month plan.

So I sit and wait, but it is getting a little annoying as of late because my 920 has started to go through quirks. Alarm just vibrating even when their is a sound for it and the volume is all the way up. Battery life seems to be dwindling. I used to be able to go a day and a half without hitting battery saver mode, now I barely make it home from work with minimal use. But hopefully it will hold out until something comes along that catches my fancy.