Don't understand how carrier controls Mango release. Explain?

dakranii

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I originally posted this as a comment (reply) on the Mango article from yesterday. But I thought I'd post it here to get a response.

The response I replied to was

If you're phone is unbranded, you'll get the update when Microsoft pushes out the OEMs' version of Mango (which we hope is the 15th). If you're phone is branded, then you have to wait until MS pushes out the carriers' version of Mango which can be a substantially longer wait.

My question is:

What do is meant by "unbranded"? If you own a phone, it has to be on a carrier network, doesn't it?

Aren't iPhone updates pushed out through Apple, not AT&T (and now Verizon)? You update your phone's software through Zune, I'm just confused how it all works.

I don't understand how the carrier controls when it comes through Zune to my phone. When you search for an update through Zune, how does Zune know what carrier your phone is using? Wouldn't it just see that I have software version X and that software version Y is now available?

And what's carrier specific about my phone on Verizon that say an AT&T subscriber doesn't have? I don't see anything Verizon specific other than a Verizon Red theme color (which is silly, given there's already a red available). I have an HTC hub for apps, but that's not Verizon.
 

bear_lx

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well typically the way it works is MS would release the update to the manufactures for testing on their devices, to work out specific device related bugs. they would then release the update to the carriers who at that point can do additional testing and ad any bloatware they want. also certain devices have specific applications and hardware. for example my htc hd7 has an htc hub with its own apps that a samsung user wouldnt have, and vice versa. verizon is the worst with all their vcast bloatware they will load their phones up with... so expect that on your trophy... and that being said, probably one of the last to recieve the update...

apple pushes its own updates out because they have all their devices locked down... another reason you wont see a carrier logo on an iphone, apple wont allow it.

unbranded means it isnt carrier specific, like a galaxy s II on android, or in our case a DEll venue pro... there is no carrier logo on it because it isnt sold by the carriers rather a manufacture

did that answer your questions?
 

Pronk

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Your phone, if branded, has the carrier coded into the software (try looking in the "about" area under phone settings - you'll see contact details specific to your carrier) as well as visible in things like extra colour schemes an bundled software.

When you hook your phone up to Zune or WP7 connector, it sees you have a branded OS version and will not apply any non-branded updates. It will only apply an update as and when your carrier releases an approved version - and that applies even if your phone is unlocked (and in that case, you may be stuck waiting for a carrier you don't even use to approve the release).

I've just started a thread about debranding, so there's more in there if you're interested.
 

dakranii

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Thanks for the replies. That makes sense, I forget about the Verizon logo on my phone and that the iPhone has no logo.

There really isn't any bloatware on the Trophy, though, that I can see. I have an HTC app hub, and a My Verizon Mobile, which shows me my plan, minutes, data usage, etc. But nothing else that I'm aware of.
 

monotok

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That has cleared things up nicely, however as I have a Dell Venue Pro and under settings it says Generic EU, do i have to wait for Dell to release the update? Which could be forever :/
 

Pronk

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Generic EU means you're unbranded - as far as I understand it, that means you'll get the update as soon as it's released.
 

theefman

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That has cleared things up nicely, however as I have a Dell Venue Pro and under settings it says Generic EU, do i have to wait for Dell to release the update? Which could be forever :/

My experience with my US T-Mo DVP has been that the updates to date have been among the first released and these went through T-Mobile approval after Dell had finished with them. A generic device should get them just as quickly as other unbranded devices, I would think.
 

Donta79

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I originally posted this as a comment (reply) on the Mango article from yesterday. But I thought I'd post it here to get a response.

The response I replied to was



My question is:

What do is meant by "unbranded"? If you own a phone, it has to be on a carrier network, doesn't it?

Aren't iPhone updates pushed out through Apple, not AT&T (and now Verizon)? You update your phone's software through Zune, I'm just confused how it all works.

I don't understand how the carrier controls when it comes through Zune to my phone. When you search for an update through Zune, how does Zune know what carrier your phone is using? Wouldn't it just see that I have software version X and that software version Y is now available?

And what's carrier specific about my phone on Verizon that say an AT&T subscriber doesn't have? I don't see anything Verizon specific other than a Verizon Red theme color (which is silly, given there's already a red available). I have an HTC hub for apps, but that's not Verizon.

I don't understand how carriers are controlling the mango release either?

For instance my other phone is a iPhone and it seems like their is an update to iOS each month, mostly minor updates but some major updates as well but with that said VZW has no say in when new iOS updates hit iTunes and the iPhone, this is all up to apple.

Why isn't the same try for windows phone?
 

Pronk

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Simple answer - because Microsoft let the carriers do it and don't insist on zero carrier tinkering. Apple don't. And on this one, Apple are 100% right and 100% leading the way - no carrier crud allowed. No branding, no crappy unremovable apps, no stupid extra logos ruining a phone's design.

Carriers should be nothing more than dumb pipes. They don't want to be, but they should be. The equivalent would be your broadband provider telling you what sites you can and can't visit and what programs you're allowed on your computer. This is why I only ever buy phones outright and always try and get unlocked and unbranded phones whenever I can - it's just less rubbish.

To see the worst of this, pick up a non-rooted Android handset sometime - the amount of undeletable garbage on them is ridiculous.
 

dakranii

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Simple answer - because Microsoft let the carriers do it and don't insist on zero carrier tinkering. Apple don't. And on this one, Apple are 100% right and 100% leading the way - no carrier crud allowed. No branding, no crappy unremovable apps, no stupid extra logos ruining a phone's design.

Carriers should be nothing more than dumb pipes. They don't want to be, but they should be. The equivalent would be your broadband provider telling you what sites you can and can't visit and what programs you're allowed on your computer. This is why I only ever buy phones outright and always try and get unlocked and unbranded phones whenever I can - it's just less rubbish.

To see the worst of this, pick up a non-rooted Android handset sometime - the amount of undeletable garbage on them is ridiculous.

So who provides your service and how does it work? Can I buy a DVP unbranded and have it run on any provider?
 

Pronk

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There are two things here: branding, which is where a carrier preloads a phone with their apps/colour schemes and their tweaked version of the OS , and locking, which is where the tweaked version of the OS will only allow you to use a sim card from the network the phone was bought from. Unlocking is fairly simple to do. Debranding is more complex.

In my case, I bought a branded, locked phone from eBay and then paid to unlock it with a code and now run it with a sim from another network. I may also debrand it soon by flashing the phone with generic software (but I haven't quite had the nerve to do that yet!).

If you can get a DVP and it's unlocked it'll run on any provider - but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't branded. Phones bought direct from the manufacturer usually aren't branded or locked (e.g. an iPhone bought from an Apple store), but of course you have to buy them outright which is a lot more money up front - phones you buy from a service provider often are branded, or at the very least network locked, because they want to tie you to their services and make more money from you. And if you're buying on a contract, they've probably subsidised the phone too.
 

Donta79

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So in other words
Microsoft needs a official stock wp7 device, kinda like google has it nexus devices that run stock android and how apple has iPhone
 

Saadbaba

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okay am just a little confused... I have an HTC HD7 that i got from O2 and i just unbranded it, would I still have to wait for O2 for the mango release or will i be able to get it earlier..?
 

palandri

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okay am just a little confused... I have an HTC HD7 that i got from O2 and i just unbranded it, would I still have to wait for O2 for the mango release or will i be able to get it earlier..?

Updates are normally released by product code. If unbranding your phone changed your product code, then you'll get it when your product code is up. That's my best guess.
 

selfcreation

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if you Unbrand your phone ( its like a carrier unlock ) ... thats it. meaning that the SECOND the first MANGO copy is available on ZUNE . your phone will reconise it and Download it. if your phone is NOT unbranded... your phone basicly waits for your specific carrier Model update to come out.

Update: carriers dont control it .. MS does... they just need to make sure it works..

1. MS sends to RTM`s (samsung,HTC,LG ect.. )
2. RTMs then send it back to MS ...
3. MS then sends it to OEM`s (carriers = VODA , BELL , AT&T ect.. )
4. then they send it back out to MS once testing is done...
5. THEN MS realses it to the puplic....

MS realses the Update .... just like apple .... except MS has to make sure the update is gona work on all the diffrent models/carriers. ( apple skips the testing Phase cause its all done internaly BY APPLE ... cause they only have the 1 model )
 

tsaunders80

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Your phone, if branded, has the carrier coded into the software (try looking in the "about" area under phone settings - you'll see contact details specific to your carrier) as well as visible in things like extra colour schemes an bundled software.

When you hook your phone up to Zune or WP7 connector, it sees you have a branded OS version and will not apply any non-branded updates. It will only apply an update as and when your carrier releases an approved version - and that applies even if your phone is unlocked (and in that case, you may be stuck waiting for a carrier you don't even use to approve the release).

I've just started a thread about debranding, so there's more in there if you're interested.

Do you have a link to your thread?
 

sinime

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Yup, webOS was the same way, updates would usually be pushed on ATT, followed shortly after by Sprint, followed months later by Verizon.

-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
 

jesdt

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if you Unbrand your phone ( its like a carrier unlock ) ... thats it.

Unbranding and Unlocking are 2 totally different things. Unbranding refers to the removal of firmware additions such as logos or apps by the carrier. SIM unlocking allows you to use your phone on any carrier network.

Unbranding your phone does not unlock it.
 

selfcreation

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Unbranding and Unlocking are 2 totally different things. Unbranding refers to the removal of firmware additions such as logos or apps by the carrier. SIM unlocking allows you to use your phone on any carrier network.

Unbranding your phone does not unlock it.

im aware .. made the mistake of saying its liek a carrier unlock ( witch is half true )
 

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