Ecosystem isn't Windows Phone's Achilles heel, hardware is

[bigmoneymike]

Did they really create a demand for low end WP devices? The numbers for low end Lumias are very good compared to WP overall, but in the entire smartphone pool they're insignificant.

Yes, Microsoft/Nokia did create demand for low end Lumia devices. In the prepaid market, the competition is horrible for the money. Let me illustrate. The freshly released 635 is $99.99. For that, you get a phone that has 8GB of internal storage, LTE, SD slot, a decent ClearBlack IPS display. Not to mention offline HERE maps, and offline MixRadio downloads. That matters. The competition would be the Moto E. This device comes with only 4GB of internal storage, no LTE... And, the price is $129.99. I mean Android, takes up about 2GB and not all applications can be moved to the SD card. The Moto E is at the top end of the prepaid market. If you go to Walmart, and look through the prepaid isle the devices available will make you laugh. Up against those type of devices the 635 almost feels like a flagship. But, that's not the real reason. It's color. The lumia devices are colorful and have a decent build quality. If a grandmother or regular joe looks at a crappy LG black slab versus a colorful Lumia 635, they most likely will take the colorful option. Note: I'm not including the Moto G because it is more expensive at $219 for LTE and SD slot. Try to find a better phone for $99.99. You'll be hard pressed.

 

[trekgraham]

Very true, anything Android for under $200 is almost not worth it. And when you account for the bloatware that can't be removed without rooting which isn't easy nor recommended for everyone is another problem.

 

[Visa Declined]

You can buy the Moto G on prepaid for $69 dollars.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[dcuk7]

What Android or IOS phone priced at the cash price of a Lumia 635 can perform as well as the Lumia 635? Similar priced Android phones, most of them perform terribly poor.

Moto G with a higher resolution screen performs as good if not better than the 635. I know, I have both.

Currently the new 4G Moto G is ?10 more expensive than the 635 in the UK and for a 720p screen, 1GB RAM and a front facing camera you'd be daft not to choose that over a 635.

(EDIT: And the Moto G has a camera flash too)!

 

[Tahiti Bob]

Even the harshest WP critics praise the OS and its buttery smoothness. So explain to me again how hardware is the problem. Unless you're a gamer, 512mb RAM is more than enough for most folks and WP7 was all 512 RAM and single-core CPUs.

The M8 won't be HTC's only device, the 8X has been around a while and Samsung has various devices as well. Speaking of Samsung, we read post after post bashing their "plasticky" phones and yet the OP advocates more Samsungs.

Very contradictory thread. WP needs more users, period. No users, app gap remains - period.

You don't get the point. The point is WP lacks variety, it's not about having the specs to run the OS but about having a variety of devices. Again, if you don't like the Lumia design, what are you left with? The Ativ S and 8X are old now and were never top of the line handsets to start with (and the 8X was too similar to Lumias anyway). The HTC One W8 is exactly what Windows Phone needs, top of the line hardware that is different. An Xperia, Galaxy, G3 running WP8.1 would be nothing but great new for the platform.

 

[Tahiti Bob]

Actually reading the comments, a few people don't get the point. Yes the OS runs well on any hardware, low or high. But choice isn't there, you can get a Nokia Lumia or... a Nokia Lumia. Or old Samsung/HTC phones but why would you? The platform needs more OEMs to produce high end phones and compete with each other, that is what's pushing android forward.
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

[tgp]

Yes, Microsoft/Nokia did create demand for low end Lumia devices.

How do you figure? I don't know what the ratio of high end/low end is for each OS, but Android outsold WP 30:1 last quarter. Previously it had been 20:1.Say Android sales are half low end, and WP is 100% low end. That's still a 15:1 margin. I wouldn't call that "creating demand", at least not a very big demand.

 

[spaulagain]

Actually reading the comments, a few people don't get the point. Yes the OS runs well on any hardware, low or high. But choice isn't there, you can get a Nokia Lumia or... a Nokia Lumia. Or old Samsung/HTC phones but why would you? The platform needs more OEMs to produce high end phones and compete with each other, that is what's pushing android forward.
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

But Nokia Lumias are not all the same. Nokia has a very large portfolio of handsets...

520/525
530
620/625
630/635
720
820/822
920
925
928
930/Icon
1020
1320
1520

If that's not enough devices, I don't know what is. So I don't see how you can claim there is no choice. The only thing limiting choice is carrier support. Pushing another 20 handsets out won't do any good if the carriers don't support them. Microsoft needs to fix that before they flood the market with more devices.

 

[Tahiti Bob]

Oh my God, why is it so hard to understand?
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

[L Beezy]

Oh my God, why is it so hard to understand?
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

It's an evergoing loop with major OEMs like Samsung, Sony, LG, ect. I believe that the OEMs want to see WP grow to become an invested part of it, and WP has to grow in order for those major OEMs to become a invested part of it. It's all about immediate profits. That's why Microsoft bought Nokia's devices division: to push out their own brand like Apple did. I can see what the OP is saying, more variety other than Nokia by Microsoft would be nice, but with the profits of WP seemingly being infantile besides Android, these major OEMs would rather invest their product (which is their moneymakers) to an already profitable OS.

That's why we're seeing more independent OEMs latey on the WP homefront. I, personally, want to see more high-end devices for WP regardless of which OEM is making it.

 

[L Beezy]

Eventually WP will gain more ground in the smartphone battle.

 

[Tahiti Bob]

Oh I understand why they're not making the phones, I'm just pointing out it would help the platform massively. All the phones listed above are from Nokia and are iterations of the 800. My point has always been, if a potential customer doesn't like that design then they will not buy Windows Phone period. On android if you don't like the Samsung design you have other choices, you don't have to move away from the platform. I'm not saying WP lacks phones (well that's still debatable), it lacks variety particularly on the high end. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

[jleebiker]

Well, it's different for everyone. Personally, I'm a specs freak and so are people when it comes to buying computing products. It doesn't matter how stable windows phone is on a lower specs to a customer who has never even used it. What matters to them is that what they are getting with their hard earned money and if it is less for one and more for other in a similar price, most will opt for higher. It's value for money pure and simple IDK why it is so difficult for people to understand.

I DO understand. You're not understanding what I'm saying. How MUCH of a difference is that 421ppi going to make vs 418ppi? I know you see it as getting value for your money, but it your eye can't perceive the difference in 421 vs 418, who is getting the better value for their device? The person that spent $50 or the person that spent $100? Another example, I buy a car that can go 75mph for $1000. You buy a car that CAN go to 80mph but you are limited to a 75mph speed limit and you spent $10,000. Who got the better value for their money? The person that spent $1000 or the person that spent $10,000?
Stop looking at the pure raw numbers and look at what is useable.

And I do get it. Trust me.

 

[Zachary Boddy]

People have made a lot of good points. In my opinion, Microsoft can't focus resources on supporting other OEM's until they have a solid Nokia lineup. How can we expect well supported, well designed Windows Phones from HTC and Sony and etc. when Nokia, Microsoft's dominant player, still doesn't have a true high end phone? I love the 1520, and the 930/Icon, but fact of the matter is, the common guy DOES look at numbers. Many of them are just pretending to know what the difference between 2.2 GHz and 2.4 GHz is, or the difference between the 800 and the 801 Snapdragon Qualcomm.
If Nokia releases high end phones that can compete with any top notch Android device in numbers and beat them in performance(since Microsoft tends to be a tad more efficient than any other OS), they can truly "wow" the consumers.
If Sony and HTC and Huawei see where Microsoft has gone, how much smaller the app gap is, the numbers of the newest Nokia devices, wouldn't that give them the push they'd need to jump onto the Windows Phone train? Not only that, but put time and effort into making quality phones. I don't doubt the HTC Windows Phones were good, and well built, but I highly doubt they could compete with the design and performance of the One M8.
Focus on the devices you have and are planning to develop in the near future, and on polishing your OS. With phones that are on the same shelf as the One M8, the G3, and the Galaxy S5, those headlines that were previously talking about the shortcomings of Windows may start talking about the comeback. My opinion, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DoctorSaline]

I DO understand. You're not understanding what I'm saying. How MUCH of a difference is that 421ppi going to make vs 418ppi? I know you see it as getting value for your money, but it your eye can't perceive the difference in 421 vs 418, who is getting the better value for their device? The person that spent $50 or the person that spent $100? Another example, I buy a car that can go 75mph for $1000. You buy a car that CAN go to 80mph but you are limited to a 75mph speed limit and you spent $10,000. Who got the better value for their money? The person that spent $1000 or the person that spent $10,000?
Stop looking at the pure raw numbers and look at what is useable.

And I do get it. Trust me.

I think we just had a misunderstanding. When you compare between difference price points then yes budget handsets will always have more value for money than over flagships even more so on WP OS. But when I mentioned 64bit hardware, I meant to talk about comparison at flagship level. Yes, it maybe irrelevant now but it won't be in future. There will be software that maybe specific for 64bit and so on.
Now, you tell me if you are in a market to buy a handset. And S6, One 2016, G4, Z5/6 have SD810 while 940, 1030, 1530 all have SD805 and they are all priced at $300 with contract or $700 unlocked. Will you prefer SD805 touting WP flagships over others because 64bit is practically irrelevant? You might but most people don't that's why it isn't a good business strategy to release year old hardware at high price despite the fact that greater number may not practically be better.
IMO WP need an All-In flagships to Wow/Dwarf Android/Iphone flagships next year.

 

[fatclue_98]

To people that use Android or iOS, there will be a gap if they switch to Windows Phone. I know that there is no convincing you, but oh well.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Did you ignore my last sentence or do you just feel like taking pot shots at every post I write?

 

[ScottGeek]

Oh my God, why is it so hard to understand?
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

Because not everyone agrees with your Opinion? :amaze: Not a slam... just an observation.

OEM's like Nokia, Samsung, HTC, even Apple get brand reputation... this is really the Magic as to why Apple can continue to sell basically the same thing over and over * Millions of devices. It means something to people to have an iPhone in their pocket... Not really a big mystery there. rly:

Samsung and to a lesser degree HTC.... powerful brands for Android. If these OEM's were to apply say 75% of the effort they do with Android towards WP devices? Would this effect Market share for WP? Of course it would.... to what degree? If lots of people who currently use/suffer in their opinion with "Galaxy" devices found a comparable WP device would they try it? Of course they would.... But how would Samsung balance such an effort?

Diversity in hardware tends to drive up OS usage/acceptance... the obvious proof of that is the PC (or the Windows OS) vs anything Apple in a PC. Who owns the majority of that market? ...For last 30 years? Now this is not always what happens... examples... iPhone/iPad... Xbox, PS3, etc. What's the difference with those... a technology Niche that grew into a market brand.

Now.... after that deep dive... would Diversity of hardware move WP out of the distant 3rd place? Well, it certainly couldn't hurt. The rub is convincing players like Samsung and HTC that diversifying their hardware is a good move to help battle against Apple vs reducing their Android market share. Yeap, that's the struggle here... You mostly see this with Samsung with their efforts of moving outside the Android box... it's a struggle for Samsung (their Watch device is an example of this as they headed down the road away from Android only to be brought back into the fold with Google Watch).

Anyway, more choices of OEM's never hurts, unless of course you're an Apple person

~ScottGeek.

 

[Tahiti Bob]

I'm not expecting everyone to agree to everything I say, certainly not. But when my point is there is a lack of devices outside Lumias and the reply is a list of Nokia phones you can see where I'm coming from.
Sent from my Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk

 

[evilrob]

the app gap still exists, anyone denying this is a fool

Cute. x

 

[evilrob]

They also need to get Sony on board and HTC committed beyond the HTC One W8. Great hardware sells and great sales attract developers. It's up to Microsoft to sell that message to other OEMs.

I totally agree with this. I flirted briefly with the idea of getting an Xperia Z2 because I loved the look and feel - particularly the glass front and back and metal chassis, waterproofness, coupled with a not-s**t camera like the M8/potentially W8.

Then I remembered I f**king hate Android.