End of simplicity??

[cj-m]

that is one of the reasons i like WP, i find the iOs and Android screens very cluttered with a gazillion little icons all over the place.

WP is simplified in a good way.

 

[snowmutt]

I can't see anyone on this forum not sticking with WP over the absence of the Gutter or the option of smaller tiles. It is still live tiles, still up to you how/why those tiles are where.

The only concern I have is with the individual tiles colors. Since I do use a large amount of tiles on my screen, I would like to pick each tiles color so some stand out more. I understand there needs to be a "theme" color for use in all other functions of the device, but I do not see why saying I want these three tiles red and all the others green so those three stand out more would hurt the green from being the theme.

Otherwise, I love the new options. I am just wondering what took them two years to get there....

 

[X0LARIUM]

I am just wondering what took them two years to get there....

Deja vu? That's what happened with copy/paste and a couple of other features as well...takes MS a Veeerryyyyy*takes a small nap*yyyyyyy long to figure out something so small.

Sent from my RaZr NeXus.

 

[cp2_4eva]

Deja vu? That's what happened with copy/paste and a couple of other features as well...takes MS a Veeerryyyyy*takes a small nap*yyyyyyy long to figure out something so small.

Sent from my RaZr NeXus.

In that case, I hope MS gets many things right this time around because I think this round is the round that makes or breaks them in the grand scheme of things. I mean, us already solidified WP users will stay, but there might be a function or two that may be deemed important to folks that they might leave out. Like the ability to save a video sent to me in my e-mail. I can save pics....not videos. Sucks. I can't see MS messing up this time though. They hyped it up at the keynotes and stuff. I hope they really fill in the gaps, put some cherries on top, and hit a homerun. That way the world can see it's not purely run by iOS and Android (and those other lesser OS)

 

[power5]

Sorry but adding an inch of screen size to keep the gutter foes not "debunk" anything. Horrible argument. I wish the gutter was still there though. It is one of the things that grab attention because asymmetry does that. I would have rather seen a new way of using that space when needed. So most times the home screen has the white space and at times its put to use.

 

[power5]

What I don't understand is the need for the much larger "full" and "medium" tiles. According to rumors the new iPhone 5 will still have a 640 16:9 screen, so 720p screen on wp8 devices will be above retina resolution.

 

[Big Supes]

Why does this still come up? Those tiles are bigger with no additional features, there's no white space because there's no gutter, and fewer tiles fit on the screen.

Well, if you want more tiles to fit, it's quite simple - you resize them.

Come on, let's hear a real argument.

Like the example you've posted? Come on...

Those who like the new start screen - you simply don't care about having white space.

True, to a degree.

That's not a bad thing, but stop trying to pitch your opinion as fact - it's objective that white space is missing on the home screen, and both Android and iOS are now doing a better job of balancing out home screens.

The irony...

No one is against small tiles or more customization. With the giant screens of the future, I highly doubt the option for the gutter will severely impact on the usability of small tiles.

There was no reason to drop the gutter other than succumbing to the tech press who spend their days flashing custom ROMs onto their non-stock Android devices. Truly does seem like Microsoft lost sight of the plan, and I'm worried that they will go further. Cluttered Metro is quite possibly the worst UI currently.

You're 'Angry' because the gutter has been removed. We get it. Please... take a few notes out from your own book (confusing opinions for facts) and allowed others to have their say without having a tantrum.

I don't think there's anything subjective about "absence of white space".

How one feels about the absence of white space is 100% subjective.

It's great that some love the start screen, but going in every thread where people might be discontent and saying you like it... it can come across as snobbery. "I got what I wanted, haha, why you so mad?" Really, no one should be celebrating when a feature or aspect is removed. What's to say that the next time, it won't be something that you personally value?

You might prefer function over form (I'd argue it's weird you're with Windows Phone if that is the case), but it doesn't hurt you in the slightest if there's an option. I've yet to see a legitimate reason why the complete removal of the gutter is in any way beneficial.

Click to view quoted image


EDIT: that said, I'll probably be putting down money on a new Lumia anyway. The 16:9 aspect ratio eases up the horizontal-vs-vertical awkwardness of the full-width home screen and the physical design seems too good to pass up on. Really curious what they are doing with the rest of the home screen though, being balanced on left and right would indicate swiping working in both directions.

Can we have the same example given with identical screen sizes, please?

 

[cckgz4]

I don't think there's anything subjective about "absence of white space".

It's great that some love the start screen, but going in every thread where people might be discontent and saying you like it... it can come across as snobbery. "I got what I wanted, haha, why you so mad?" Really, no one should be celebrating when a feature or aspect is removed. What's to say that the next time, it won't be something that you personally value?

You might prefer function over form (I'd argue it's weird you're with Windows Phone if that is the case), but it doesn't hurt you in the slightest if there's an option. I've yet to see a legitimate reason why the complete removal of the gutter is in any way beneficial.

Click to view quoted image


EDIT: that said, I'll probably be putting down money on a new Lumia anyway. The 16:9 aspect ratio eases up the horizontal-vs-vertical awkwardness of the full-width home screen and the physical design seems too good to pass up on. Really curious what they are doing with the rest of the home screen though, being balanced on left and right would indicate swiping working in both directions.

eww @ the example on the left

 

[blehblehbleh]

You might prefer function over form (I'd argue it's weird you're with Windows Phone if that is the case), but it doesn't hurt you in the slightest if there's an option. I've yet to see a legitimate reason why the complete removal of the gutter is in any way beneficial.

To your first comment, I'd argue against what you're saying, to a degree, because the hubs and live tiles made WP functional, or more functional, than a straight up app launcher.

Maybe you don't see the legitimacy of having the gutter removed because you don't have a 3.7" screen? My phone does and while the original start screen was refreshing at first, after looking at the new start screen, the gutter is starting to feel like a waste of space. Removal would make things less cramped.

Not to mention that its removal wouldn't fit as effectively with the notion of having multiple sized live tiles. I feel that'd make things feel even more cramp (looks like MS specifically defined how much space is supposed to be around the arrow icon), especially on my small 3.7" screen.

As for the aesthetic of white space/negative space, until OEMs start duplicating Moto's alleged edge to edge screen, the bezel between the phone's edge and the LCD is the white space/negative space.

 

[Nataku4ca]

i like having these choices, and the user can decide how simple or how cluttered they want

me for one will make 4 small tiles up top for phone/msg/whatsapp/line
then medium people tile + two medium group tile + xbox live
then another row of small tiles with IE/Connectivity shortcuts(if they still don't have this built in....)/Zune/Office
then a large Pictures tile rest i'll have to play with to get a feel of what should show up

 

[power5]

Also, the tiles are the same size on EVERY size screen. All windows phones have the same screen resolution. Each tile uses the same amount of pixels on my titan as they do on a surround. The relative size of my tiles are larger than on the surround though.

I think they could have made the area around the arrow much smaller than it is now. Could probably take 1/2 of the current gutter away and still had the entire arrow and circle. Or, they could have made it "metro" and had the arrow wrap off the side of the screen slightly just like the text at the top of just about every app.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Or, they could have made it "metro" and had the arrow wrap off the side of the screen slightly just like the text at the top of just about every app.

They can keep the 4 tiles, and still do that, if you ask me. I think you might be onto something here.

 

[AngryNil]

Sorry but adding an inch of screen size to keep the gutter foes not "debunk" anything. Horrible argument.

Can we have the same example given with identical screen sizes, please?

You clearly missed the point of my argument, which was that our devices are getting larger and larger, and the gutter really isn't that big of a deal usability wise when we are hitting the high end of 4". With the gutter on new Ativ S, you'd get a hit target that is perfectly identical to the hit target owners of the Optimus 7 are going to have to deal with. The naysayers have said "it would be impossible to touch the small tiles with the gutter". I just proved otherwise, unless you're saying that WP8 will be unusable on <4".

Well, if you want more tiles to fit, it's quite simple - you resize them.

Oh, that's right. So we don't have a no-compromise solution for the old WP7 look. Nice of you to let me know.

The irony...

The amount of white space on an iOS or Android home screen versus the amount of white space on a WP8 home screen is not subjective or opinion. I truly hope you're not being serious about all this, because it's coming off as pure ignorance.

How one feels about the absence of white space is 100% subjective.

And its absence is not. Straw man.

I feel that'd make things feel even more cramp (looks like MS specifically defined how much space is supposed to be around the arrow icon), especially on my small 3.7" screen.

Which is why I'm proposing an option, since it wouldn't be that great on smaller screens.

 

[blehblehbleh]

Which is why I'm proposing an option, since it wouldn't be that great on smaller screens.

I don't know, at that point you're messing into the uniformity of the UI. Not to mention, everyone's stuck with not only the size of the LCD but the resolution it displays (it being non changeable by the user). For something that does so little functionally it's a waste of space. Aesthetically it does a decent job, but again uniformity I think has the overriding priority.

 

[AngryNil]

I don't know, at that point you're messing into the uniformity of the UI. Not to mention, everyone's stuck with not only the size of the LCD but the resolution it displays (it being non changeable by the user). For something that does so little functionally it's a waste of space. Aesthetically it does a decent job, but again uniformity I think has the overriding priority.

Keep in mind that the customisability of the start screen (especially the new one) lessens the uniformity argument - it's one area where Microsoft is letting users have something close to free reign. The resolution is not a problem since the tiles will scale.

I'd say the argument here would be if Microsoft makes the start screen swipable in both directions, in which case the asymmetry would make less sense (though panorama apps still do this). I'd still prefer extra padding on both sides, but I think most of the problem is remedied by the 16:9 resolution (you get more tiles on screen, and there's some visual balance). Then again, 2/3 of the resolutions supported are not 16:9.

 

[blehblehbleh]

Keep in mind that the customisability of the start screen (especially the new one) lessens the uniformity argument - it's one area where Microsoft is letting users have something close to free reign. The resolution is not a problem since the tiles will scale.

How is it lessened? The fact that they're making the tiles come in three sizes means there has to be a uniformity to support the new look across all devices. Having an optional gutter is gonna throw that new direction off balance. I think MS wants people to instantly recognize the version being run on the phone or to phase out the short stint of WP7.

As for the tiles, my point with that was that it's gonna throw that uniformity askew if you keep the gutter in there, even as an option, at least that's how I see it.

 

[AngryNil]

How is it lessened? The fact that they're making the tiles come in three sizes means there has to be a uniformity to support the new look across all devices. Having an optional gutter is gonna throw that new direction off balance. I think MS wants people to instantly recognize the version being run on the phone or to phase out the short stint of WP7.

Because you can modify the home screen to be thinner and have a makeshift gutter (even now, you can arrange them one-wide) - the gutter isn't some terribly disruptive feature that makes the home screen look totally different. They can all ship with the gutter disabled.

Microsoft's product will not be mistaken for another, gutter or not. Tossing WP7 behind them is an interesting theory, but hardly a strong enough case.

 

[blehblehbleh]

Because you can modify the home screen to be thinner and have a makeshift gutter (even now, you can arrange them one-wide) - the gutter isn't some terribly disruptive feature that makes the home screen look totally different. They can all ship with the gutter disabled.

Microsoft's product will not be mistaken for another, gutter or not. Tossing WP7 behind them is an interesting theory, but hardly a strong enough case.

Huh? So you're saying there's no uniformity because one is allowed to create a make shift gutter?

 

[AngryNil]

Huh? So you're saying there's no uniformity because one is allowed to create a make shift gutter?

The ball's in your court. You can't complain an opt-in gutter breaks uniformity when something similar can already be achieved on stock WP8. You can customize WP8 to have empty space on either side, and tiles are tiles are tiles. The gutter does not break uniformity any more than the ability to dynamically rearrange tiles does.

 

[richu75]

Also, the tiles are the same size on EVERY size screen. All windows phones have the same screen resolution. Each tile uses the same amount of pixels on my titan as they do on a surround. The relative size of my tiles are larger than on the surround though.

Well, that is not quite right now is it?

All WP7 phones have the same 480*800 resolution, but with WP8 there will be three supported resolutions: WVGA (480*800), WXGA (768*1280) and 720p (720*1280).

So besides three different resolutions, you also have two different aspect ratios (5:3 and 16:9).