How much does it cost Microsoft mobile?
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DJCBS
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Every single true Nokia fan didn't want Nokia's D&S division to be sold.
Now that it was, all we have to do is support the new CEO that's fixing the damage Eflop did, putting Nokia back together and support their future endeavours. I'm starting by switching to Android and using Nokia's HERE apps, Z Launcher and anything else they release on Android. And as soon as they put out their first new-Nokia phone, I'll be in the front line to buy it.
They will never put out another phone, so you have to get over it. Their board of directors will never approve it given that they failed miserably with their D&S business and it almost bankrupted them
fatclue_98
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Iconic brands come and go all the time. Pontiac, Plymouth, Pan Am, etc. They fail because of bad management. As the previous person said, "get over it" and move on.
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DJCBS
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You know nothing, Jon Snow
None of those brands are "iconic" outside the USA. Nokia is a brand loved around the World EXCEPT in the USA. Therefore, it's a completely different scenario.
Besides, people said the same thing about Alcatel a new years ago. And there you have Alcatel back in the game.
Never EVER use the USA paradigm for market behaviour.
You know nothing, Jon Snow
None of those brands are "iconic" outside the USA. Nokia is a brand loved around the World EXCEPT in the USA. Therefore, it's a completely different scenario.
Besides, people said the same thing about Alcatel a new years ago. And there you have Alcatel back in the game.
Never EVER use the USA paradigm for market behaviour.
I can guarantee I know more about this than you ever will, but why listen to me, I'm just a guy commenting on an internet forum who happens to do this sort of thing for my day job. I don't know where you are getting your facts, but Nokia was an iconic brand in the US for a very long time, but they failed to innovate and capture the markets attention and drifted into a state of malaise, which is why they eventually were sold to Microsoft.
People can use the USA as a paradigm for market behavior because the US controls a significant portion of the US GDP and their companies are swallowing up foreign companies, especially in the technology space. India and China may have many, many more people, but they don't spend like an American or even European does (just look at the per capita GDP numbers).
I also believe it was rumor that Nokia can return to the smart phone market by 2016. Microsoft has pretty good lawyers, and I've done enough of these sorts of contracts to know their is usually at least a 3-5 year non-compete. That assumes they even could compete (they can't, unless they license out the name like Westinghouse did).
As I said before, it's a pipedream, get over it and if you don't like Windows Phone, good bye
DJCBS
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1 - You can do whatever you want for a job. It doesn't make your opinion neither better nor more true. You may be arrogant to the point of believing you own the answers to everything and anything and that all others are wrong and that if you declare something "a pipedream", then it *must* be what you say... but in the end of the day, unless you're a member of Nokia's Board of Directors, you know nothing and your opinion is worth little. You're not a member of the Nokia BoD, you're not Nokia's CEO, you're not Nokia's chairman, your opinion on what Nokia will or will not do matters not. Just like mine doesn't (unless shareholders get to vote on it, in which case, mine will count something).
2 - "People can use the USA as a paradigm for market behavior because the US controls a significant portion of the US GDP and their companies are swallowing up foreign companies, especially in the technology space."
2.1 - The USA doesn't control the majority of the World's mobile phone market. Furthermore, the functioning of the American market is radically different from the rest of the World. Example: NO company needs to beg, whine or bribe carriers for their phones to sell. In Europe, for example, you don't need carriers to sell phones. People buy them directly from either the OEM's or from tech retail stores. There's no "exclusivity", nor wide-spread use of "contracts" and certainly no "subsidies". Therefore, in Nokia's case, they do NOT need any carriers to sell phones. They just need to put them on the shelves and market them. As every OEM does. Carriers have no say neither on what people can or can not buy to use on their network and they pick the phones they want to pick. A carrier can, eventually, request an OEM to add something to the phone they're carrying (like Telef?nica did with the 64GB version of the 1020) but they could NEVER do what AT&T does with Qi charging and strip phones from their functionalities just because the carrier wants the OEM to.
2.2 - The fact that US companies are swallowing foreign companies has NOTHING to do with sales and it certainly has nothing to do with sales of phones in the US or anywhere else. Otherwise Motorola would sell by the millions instead of Samsung. If you actually take a close look at the "American" companies in the phone business...well, you have Apple. Apple IS relevant in the US market. The other relevant Android brands in the US market are NOT American. In Europe, on the other hand, Apple has residual relevance. In some markets it's a big deal, in others not so much. And Motorola has lost almost all the relevance they once had. And as soon as the "Nokia" name goes away from Microsoft phones, you'll see sales of Microsoft Mobile phones plumb. And you have a much more colourful landscape. Sony is huge in Europe for example, and almost absent in the US. HTC is not as popular over here but LG is. And we also have Alcatel, Wiko, Jolla and other European based companies that sell phones but not by the millions. Then you have Samsung, of course.
Any return of Nokia isn't mandatory to be done in their prior scale. Who told you they would launch phones globally? They can perfectly well do: 1 - what Sony does and focus on markets where they're relevant (Europe, India) or 2 - do what Motorola does with the US and focus 99% of their attention in Europe.
3 - If you do "this" for a living (whatever "this" is), you must not be very good at it. "I also believe it was rumor that Nokia can return to the smart phone market by 2016." READ. THE. DEAL. It's available online. It has been for a year. Google it.
Nokia can't return to smartphones until 2016. Period. It's as clear as day and as a lawyer I can tell you myself, Microsoft will NOT be able to go around it. No matter how much you twist and turn it.
fatclue_98
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You know nothing, Jon Snow
None of those brands are "iconic" outside the USA. Nokia is a brand loved around the World EXCEPT in the USA. Therefore, it's a completely different scenario.
Besides, people said the same thing about Alcatel a new years ago. And there you have Alcatel back in the game.
Never EVER use the USA paradigm for market behaviour.
I suspect you are not old enough to know what brands were popular in other eras. As Europe was reconstructing after WWII, American brands were highly thought of. Plymouth was a very desirable brand in Europe and influenced many of the great designers like Pinin Farina, Giugiaro and others. The tail fins of the fifties were part and parcel of Chrysler Design.
The Pan Am Clipper was the world standard for passenger travel. A 747 landing at Gatwick or de Gaulle was a moment to behold.
Next you'll tell me that Coca-Cola is a regional soft drink in Atlanta.
Please don't assume that all US citizens are so arrogant to think there's nothing outside the U.S.
DJCBS
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We're talking mobile. So there's little use to bring up post-WWII brands.
I'm not old enough to remember post-WWII Europe as I wasn't born in the 50's. But I know PanAm, as they had an entire TV series with their name. But to put them as "iconic" around the World...that's stretching it. Coca-Cola IS an iconic brand. They even created Father Christmas as we know it. Still, the other brands faded into oblivion.
If we were to compare the strength of the Nokia brand around the World, it would be closer to Coca-Cola than to PanAm.
fatclue_98
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Ok, we'll play by your rules. What says you about Palm? Not iconic enough considering that PDAs are commonly known as Palm Pilots? Plenty of mismanagement there.
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DJCBS
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Where are PDA's known as "Palm Pilots"? Because I never ever heard anyone refer to them as that. Back when PDA's where a thing, everyone called them PDA's. Perhaps that didn't happen in the US. At any rate, again, not nearly as popular or strong as "Nokia". "Blackberry" is perhaps a better example. They too have been poorly managed.
xandros9
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Their time has long passed. But "PalmPilot" was a commonly used generic term, believe me.
Heck, my dad uses it.
It was popular enough to be put up there (acquiring Handspring and doing the Treo's, first success post-Newton, etc.)
I've heard it before and know its used a lot more than "PocketPC," "palmOne Tungsten," etc.
fatclue_98
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So just because you never heard the term it's not fact. I see, it's your world and I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut.
DJCBS
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I've been around for a while and never ever ever did I hear ANYONE call PDA's "Palm Pilots". And I'm pretty sure if we ran a poll on the matter, you'd notice that just because Americans referred to something a certain way, doesn't mean the rest of the World does too.
And I'll even give you a reason for that to happen: PDA's where practically nowhere to be seen in Europe until the XXI century. If I recall correctly, the first PDA's came out late 90's. In those times, the mobile phone landscape in Europe was basically divided into two companies: Nokia and Motorola. There were also other OEMs around like Ericsson (before Sony) and Alcatel (before Alcatel-Lucent) but they both commanded very little of the market with Nokia increasingly crushing everyone else including Motorola.
So you should not be surprised that no one talks about PDA's as "Palm Pilots" outside the USA.
fatclue_98
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fatclue_98
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The purpose of a discussion is to have a dialogue. When one of the participants refuses to accept the input of not one, but two, others it becomes an exercise in futility.
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DJCBS
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It also doesn't help when one of the participants is arrogant to the point of believing that the US represents the entire World and that if something is used in the US then it *must* be popular and it *must* be used around the World.
Even though he's given a thorough explanation for the facts.
So it's useless, yes. Facts win.
Even though he's given a thorough explanation for the facts.
So it's useless, yes. Facts win.
fatclue_98
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Arrogance is assuming that (A) I'm American and (B) I've never been outside the U.S.
(A) I'm Cuban
(B) Lucky enough to have been able to travel to other places and experience other people and cultures.
You're right though, facts do win.
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(A) I'm Cuban
(B) Lucky enough to have been able to travel to other places and experience other people and cultures.
You're right though, facts do win.
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DJCBS
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"Location: Miami, FL.
Carrier: AT&T"
Sure, you're not American. You're clearly Japanese.
With all due respect, you may have been born in Cuba, you may have travelled to outside the US. But that doesn't change the culture in which you are immersed in. And if you're living in the US, you are most likely now an American citizen. That makes you American (unless you only believe in the criteria of ius sanguini aka blood right to determine the nationality of an individual.)
I've given you facts to oppose your claim that "PDAs are commonly known as Palm Pilots". No, they are not. They may be in the US. Sure. I don't know, I don't live in the US and I've not lived there in the 90's for sure. I never questioned that in the US people may call PDA's that. Except the US is not the World.
But outside the US they are not. And I explained you why they're not known as that in Europe. You just don't accept that.
If you still don't believe the facts, next time you come to Europe, try and ask people about "Palm Pilots". You'll see what happens.
Carrier: AT&T"
Sure, you're not American. You're clearly Japanese.
With all due respect, you may have been born in Cuba, you may have travelled to outside the US. But that doesn't change the culture in which you are immersed in. And if you're living in the US, you are most likely now an American citizen. That makes you American (unless you only believe in the criteria of ius sanguini aka blood right to determine the nationality of an individual.)
I've given you facts to oppose your claim that "PDAs are commonly known as Palm Pilots". No, they are not. They may be in the US. Sure. I don't know, I don't live in the US and I've not lived there in the 90's for sure. I never questioned that in the US people may call PDA's that. Except the US is not the World.
But outside the US they are not. And I explained you why they're not known as that in Europe. You just don't accept that.
If you still don't believe the facts, next time you come to Europe, try and ask people about "Palm Pilots". You'll see what happens.
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