How on earth is nobody focusing on...

[tgp]

But in this case, it was AT&T paying Nokia for the exclusivity. It wasn't that Nokia or Microsoft was paying the carriers to have the phone, and it wasn't the other carriers didn't want to carry the phone.

Do we know that for sure? There are also reports that AT&T refused to carry the phones unless they had exclusive access, which is what I tend to believe.

 

[a5cent]

Right, I understand that, but I remember Microsoft announced that they are "bypassing" the carriers in the sense that it's not going exactly through them. The carriers will still get a chance to test it, but Microsoft will be pushing it out directly to the devices.

Or something like that...

MS has been trying to renegotiate their rights to distribute updates to WP devices for years. It's purely a legal thing that has nothing to do with tech, servers, etc.

Apparently some things are changing with W10, but I've not seen anybody publish details. Whatever the details are, there is no way carriers will be bypassed! Ever! The best MS will get is a deal like Apple, where testing must be completed by a certain date.

I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon rejecting MS' terms and continuing to demand that any WP device they sell be a U.S. exclusive, is precisely why MS can no longer work with Verizon.

With MS reducing their portfolio to a very small number of devices, Verizon's demands for exclusive devices is basically Verizon putting insurmountable obstacles in the way of every other U.S. citizen who might want to purchase that device too.

It's true. MS can't succeed without Verizon. On the other hand, Verizon has done absolutely nothing for MS, despite Nokia repeatedly conceding to provide exclusives.

It's time MS started dictating terms, no matter the cost. If enough people leave Verizon to get a WP device, maybe not immediately, but once things like continuum start catching on, Verizon will be back.

MS needs to change the MS-carrier-customer dynamic, and they probably can't do that with Verizon.

 

[a5cent]

Do we know that for sure? There are also reports that AT&T refused to carry the phones unless they had exclusive access, which is what I tend to believe.

This is unfortunately much closer to the truth. Carriers would sometimes also promise more marketing dollars and higher subsidies for phones, but I've never heard of direct payments to OEMs for exclusives, unless the carrier directly ordered a custom built phone.

 

[theefman]

What obstacles exactly?

Obstacles like staff actively steering people away from buying a WP? Sticking the devices they have in the back room? When they do eventually display them sticking them in the back of the store with non-working devices? If Verizon wanted to support WP none of this would be happening, their corporate offices would make sure WP was well represented and displayed in stores.

And you know what, the bottom line is Verizon doesn't actually matter. WP has been on Verizon for a number of years now and its marketshare is still stagnant, that shows that being on this carrier is being vastly overhyped, otherwise wouldn't we have seen "massive" adoption from being on the allegedly largest US carrier?

 

[tale 85]

I'm sure TMO will too. However, as for myself (who actually would be willing to switch carriers, not considering all the average consumers who would not), I'm "stuck" on Verizon. Not saying that in a bad way since I like Big Red, but it's the best carrier in my area.

As far as unlocked devices, that would be totally awesome. As I understand, that way of buying phones is more popular overseas. However, here in the US, as I said, people go through their carriers, and don't even think of going elsewhere. Not to mention they wouldn't want to pay all that money for an unlocked phone

If you don't have to build variants for each carrier, I'm sure it would offset the cost of unlocked phones. Have the carriers give you a software package for their in house stuff. It would get downloaded upon activation.....or something.
Mass production goes a lot faster, and cheaper without having to add additional flavors.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Obstacles like staff actively steering people away from buying a WP? Sticking the devices they have in the back room? When they do eventually display them sticking them in the back of the store with non-working devices? If Verizon wanted to support WP none of this would be happening, their corporate offices would make sure WP was well represented and displayed in stores.

And you know what, the bottom line is Verizon doesn't actually matter. WP has been on Verizon for a number of years now and its marketshare is still stagnant, that shows that being on this carrier is being vastly overhyped, otherwise wouldn't we have seen "massive" adoption from being on the allegedly largest US carrier?

Exactly. Based on the Aduplex numbers...the ONLY Verizon smartphone that is there is the Lumia 928...

Att's 1020, 920, and 1520 are all there...and keep in mind the 920 us nearly 3 years old.
(and based on the numbers sold more).

The 520 as well(sold by att)...I can't necessarily count the 635 since that was sold by multiple carriers and their MVNO/Prepaid counterparts as well.

Verizon really offers absolutely nothing substantial for the windows phone team. Losing someone like Att where the products do usually last awhile, are updated relatively fast, and there is some backing/attention put on the phones would be more detrimental.

It almost seems like the GSM carriers like Att/TMO are what Microsoft needs and they also need to get their phones on the prepaid/mvno carriers.

If they can somehow get Att/Tmo along with Sprint/US Cellular plus MVNOs onboard....then Verizon becomes irrelevant(Sorry to those customers).

Lumia 640 XL is likely an att exclusive...but a 640 on Sprint, Virgin Mobile, Boost Mobile. and US cellular would be awesome.

 

[icedave]

Upfront......not a power user. Went all-in last Sunday and dumped my iPhone 4S (and wife's flip phone) for a couple of Lumia 735's from Verizon. Been with Verizon for a long while and contemplated switch to ATT, to try the 635, but a little afraid of carrier switch (don't ask!).

Went to the 4S a couple of years ago due to Windows phone vacuum .......wouldn't say bad, OK if have a MAC and $$$.

Been PC since 80's. Old timer and miss the old PDA, HP days, running Windows CE?...plug it in and done! Tired of trying to sync different platforms. Now on Microsoft cloud, etc., and pretty impressed!

So far the 735 is great. Concern is that a) I made the move a week or so after massive Nokia layoff's!!! Hoping that Windows 10 will take-off and Microsoft? or other manufacturers will still support the phone. Don't think I have the patients to try Android!......and b) will 10 be much different from 8.1?......kind of like 8.1.

Any thoughts?

 

[AiR DEGETA]

The ONLY problem I always had with Windows phone is that in the US their phones are too carrier exclusive. You can't release 12 phones and have 8 go to AT&T, 2 to T-Mobile and Verizon & Sprint one each. AT&T gets a new phone every month and everyone else get 1 a year. How do you expect to gain Market share? I have been saying for over a year what they need to do is copy what Samsung & Apple do and release their phones on all carriers simultaneously. I'm pretty sure Microsoft can afford it.

 

[aximtreo]

Hmmmm. As I was reading this post, I get an email from Directv giving me the good news about being a part of the AT&T family. I'm sure they are very happy.

I couldn't be happier as well. Now when I call Directv to cancel my service and they ask me why, I can tell them that I'm taking my business elsewhere because of not being able to get the exact phone on the AT&T network that I want. What is that perfect phone for me; why it;s the 950XL that is rumored not to be carried on the AT&T network.

Now take that you evil entity.

 

[TechFreak1]

I disagree, it is reported that both these will have universal GSM radios as such will be sold through their stores (unlocked) therefore you could byod to any of the "supported" networks.Verzion has been worse than crap when it comes to Windows phone, you just have to look at all the stuff they have pulled (I imagine the last straw was the icon being EOL'd deliberately no less than a year after launch).

So in the big picture there is no over all loss, sure you lose a quite a number of users who cannot afford to lose the coverage they have.

If Verzion was using GSM as opposed to the defunct CDMA standard then this would be a non issue, only a handful of well known carriers use CDMA and pretty much everyone else uses GSM. In a perfect world everyone would use GSM and every phone would have universal radios.

If anything Verzion is being too egoistic and big headed, it is not what they want but what their customers want as without their subscribers they wouldn't be where they are.

Never the less this doesn't rule out other OEMs, just look at all the SE Variants - Verizon has more SE Variants than anyone else.

 

[Jazmac]

None of the carriers are good partners. Microsoft should produce a phone that works on all 5 (counting US Cellular) major US carriers out of the box, and leave the carriers completely out of it. And to make it work, it will need to have CDMA capabilities as well. A GSM phone will only work on AT&T and T-Mobile, leaving 3 of the carriers out of it. Verizon being the largest is the most important.

I like the idea and if you recall, google tried that with its unlocked Nexus One running android "cupcake". It was only sold via web stores in Jan of 2010, After all the support complaints rolled in, they quickly hooked up with carrier stores in July of the same year. Surprise, surprise, people only know how to go to carriers to fix broken phones.

That is its history and the question is, is MS prepared for the support part? Moreover, US carriers have this very ugly side of not supporting a phone's features with bogus technical complaints. AT&T recently tried to bill Apple iPhone owners more to use its Facetime feature. Which would be a real detriment to the hearing impaired community. Point is, carriers could simply restrict a feature like Cortana and without legal muscle, that shiny new 950 XL becomes the 950 VCR.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I like the idea and if you recall, google tried that with its unlocked Nexus One running android "cupcake". It was only sold via web stores in Jan of 2010, After all the support complaints rolled in, they quickly hooked up with carrier stores in July of the same year. Surprise, surprise, people only know how to go to carriers to fix broken phones.

That is its history and the question is, is MS prepared for the support part? Moreover, US carriers have this very ugly side of not supporting a phone's features with bogus technical complaints. AT&T recently tried to bill Apple iPhone owners more to use its Facetime feature. Which would be a real detriment to the hearing impaired community. Point is, carriers could simply restrict a feature like Cortana and without legal muscle, that shiny new 950 XL becomes the 950 VCR.

From what some members have posted on the forums, Microsoft has already failed with support. Repairs that took less than two weeks when Nokia was handling repairs are now taking over two months.

 

[tgp]

I like the idea and if you recall, google tried that with its unlocked Nexus One running android "cupcake". It was only sold via web stores in Jan of 2010, After all the support complaints rolled in, they quickly hooked up with carrier stores in July of the same year. Surprise, surprise, people only know how to go to carriers to fix broken phones.

I know that this is an ideal scenario, but I don't think Microsoft can make a go of it on their own without carrier involvement. Even Apple uses the carriers, although they have an advantage in that the carriers are their puppets. When Apple says "Jump!", the carriers ask "How high?" on the way up. They need each other, and they are both highly profitable because of each other. The same applies to Samsung with their Galaxy series, although probably not quite to the same extent.

is MS prepared for the support part?

This is the big question.

 

[dudeman456]

Microsoft stated they will make phone for enthusiast, as such their plans are to make Windows Phone at a loss. They will only make a few phones in each category.

 

[Jack Neill]

Will Verizon (or Sprint) activate a phone on their network they don't supply?

Ask a Nexus 5 owner...

 

[estidi]

Or instead of getting screwed over by carriers, Microsoft can just get off completely from US market.
WP is much bigger on Asian and European markets anyway.

 

[nukez]

Yeah to gain market share i think that Microsoft must do the thing that no other constructor do. Financing option to go over what carrier have been doing for long and slash the fear of so many people to go outside of carrier choice of cellphone.

I've created a thread for that on Uservoice, just search "Gaining market traction by offering financing option"

 

[freddyfender]

Quit buying phones from the cell phone companies. This will help with updates being done faster directly from Microsoft. If your cell company sucks you can go elsewhere with less hassle. We don't buy our laptops from a company to be held hostage on updates and crap service. So why buy your phone from there when the option of an unlocked one from Microsoft is available!!

I still can't believe people buy phones that cost $150 from a cell company on contract with 0$ down, then suffer for it over the two years. Stop it!!!!

 

[floppyedonkey]

I'm fine with going to a Microsoft Store to pick one up that is unlocked or Best Buy or Amazon. I don't need to run to my carrier's store to have them try and explain that the Apple App Store has more apps, am I sure I want this Windows Phone? And screw Verizon with their non-sim card service.

 

[MDMcAtee]

Existing customers are sick and tired of all of the crapola the carriers dish out whenever they walk into a store.

The time is ripe for Microsoft to step in and take control of their future in mobile phones.

What's it going to take?

Trained sales and support staff in the retail stores where they are sold for starters.

Advertising....and tons of it. They have to re-educate people who don't know to go,that the Microsoft Store is where you go to buy a new phone and get your problems resolved, along with Best Buy and Costco and that you can buy on Amazon too.

Financing...It has to be made available, outside of the carriers .

If Microsoft wants to succeed, now is the time to become aggressive and Win 10 needs to be spot on with all of the devices it is on.

Microsoft has the presence and the name recognition to do this,but they have to be aggressive in marketing which they have never really been.

Now they are going to break some eggs to accomplish this, you have to, to make sure the omelet is great, but they have to keep the fire going to cook it. They can't expect people to buy their phones if they aren't advertised and are locked down on 1 carrier. Everyone here knows this,so I sincerely hope that they plan to not do this half heartedly.

There are over 6 billion cellphones in the world and they have only themselves to blame if they don't have the lion's share of them in a few years. Microsoft has the opportunity to turn the mobile world upside down if they have the guts to try.

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