IE9 and Horrible HTML5 Scores

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rezzet#CB

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I've recently went around and asked friends of mine with different smart phones test what score their browsers get when it comes to HTML5 support.

From all the talk Microsoft likes to do about IE being all about HTML5, the results were completely disappointing for myself - the WP user.

Android 4's CHROME got score of ~345
Android 2.3 got ~ 185
iPhone 4 got ~305
iPhone 3 got ~225
BlackBerry Bold got ~265
Windows Phone 7.5 got ~140


What do you guys think about that?
You can test your phone at www.html5test.com


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I couldn't care less. Have you visited a site that requires HTML5 support that IE9 is lacking? You want to use this site on your phone? Yeah, I thought so.

In other news the default Android browser is just TERRIBLE. It is laggy, there are white areas when you scroll and zoom, it does not zoom right on text when you tap and the scrolling is not smooth at all.

I have to admit iOS Safari is pretty cool.
 
I've recently went around and asked friends of mine with different smart phones test what score their browsers get when it comes to HTML5 support.

From all the talk Microsoft likes to do about IE being all about HTML5, the results were completely disappointing for myself - the WP user.

Android 4's CHROME got score of ~345
Android 2.3 got ~ 185
iPhone 4 got ~305
iPhone 3 got ~225
BlackBerry Bold got ~265
Windows Phone 7.5 got ~140


What do you guys think about that?
You can test your phone at The HTML5 test - How well does your browser support HTML5?


Sent from my HTC Titan using Board Express Pro.

Have you tested IE9 on Windows 7? It scores lower.

So yeah, not feeling so bad about the WP7 version scoring where it does.
 
I find the scoring somewhat conflicting. Any site I've visited that is primarily HTML5 has worked flawlessly on my Windows Phone vs iOS and Android browsers.....

Android was painfully laggy, and iOS was just a hair slower at somethings (although close). I'd say iOS and IE9 Mobile are neck and neck (unless it's an iPhone 4s....).
 
The problem is, that site is stupid. It ranks points based off of features that are not currently in the requirements for HTML 5. Meaning, it gives you points for things that are not officially HTML 5...
 
The problem is, that site is stupid. It ranks points based off of features that are not currently in the requirements for HTML 5. Meaning, it gives you points for things that are not officially HTML 5...

W3C hasn't put up an official guidelines for HTML5 yet. It's a year or so away at least. Yet that doesn't change the fact that other mobile browsers support more popular HTML5 features. I understand that there are fanboys on this site and when confronted with facts that don't make the WP7 look good, they paint the problem as miniscule and irrelevant... or better yet not at all a problem.

Someone asked me if I wanted to see HTML5 sites, yes, I would actually. I'm a web and on-air designer by profession and utilize Flash extensively for different animation needs. With the mobile platform refusing Flash, I'm turning to HTML5 to create content slowly.

Another note, stock android browser is pretty bad, but I specifically specified that it's mobile CHROME that is out there now and whooping everyone else at HTML5.

I like windows phone, I wouldn't own one if I didn't. But I refuse to be a blind WP shill. If we are not going to admit the faults and downsides of WP system, there will be no problems to fix and no downsides look into.

It bothers me a bit that a company like MS that keeps talking about HTML5, doesn't support over 50% of the features other browsers do. What's even more unsettling is the fact that IE10 desktop barely breaks score of 300.

P.S Desktop and Mobile IE9 score the same.
 
There's a lot of mobile html5 sites that do not Renee properly in wp7. Do yes the scores do matter because webkit supports a lot more html5 and mist devs target that browser. Wp7 missing a lot of it breaks the site on this platform.

That score isn't a. Speed test. It basically says Android/ios and even blackberry support twice as many html5 elements as wp7.

And this is why getting ie10 on current devices will be important for Microsoft.

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You can't possibly need a SCORE. You need some website to work. Unless you complain about something not working your complaint does not make sense. Lets see an example of what is not working (I tested with desktop IE9)

MathML - I guess you won't be able to see math formulas in HTML markup. Need that often?
No subtitles support in Video. Well that can be useful for some people.
No Ogg support? WTF why is this even in the tests?
No WebM support... Chrome is supposed to remove the H.264 support... lets see if they dare especially since safari does not support anything but H.264 (just like IE)
No support for Ogg and WebM in audio... we covered that already but IE loses points twice for the same thing

No support for reverse element on ordered list. Important? I doubt it.
Some stupid semantic elements with no real usage like "time". Do you care?

Forms... now this is big (and IE loses a lot of points here). There are no inputs for phone number, email, datetime etc. IE10 is going to have those on the desktop so I have to assume it will have it on the phone. This is really important and much more important on the phone than on the desktop

Many points lost for lack of drag & drop support... on a Phone. Not serious.

History and navigation - that might be useful but no one can really use it yet. This is supposed to replace the # after the URLs on many websites like twitter and facebook and provide the devs with the option to use real URLs that can change. I would consider this important if sites were actually using it but as of now they can't afford to use it. IE10 will support this.

Microdata - useless

I am not sure what this Web Application section is so I won't comment

I am not sure of the impact of the iFrame security so I will not comment either.

WebGL as a hardcore gamer I think the success of this technology can damage serious gaming and produce more tower defense and angry birds games. Maybe you care about this "HTML5 gaming" oxymoron but I don't. Also I doubt that mobile devices will have the power to run WebGL games that run slow on the desktop. Also they are ugly.

Communication... Do you know that the web sockets implementation in the android browser is now broken because the standard changed and they had implemented the old version? Anyway this is not in widespread usage yet and is coming in IE10 in much more stable (as in "unlikely to change") form. Desktop Chrome changed the implementation (because the standard changed) and broke existing apps. Would you like this to happen with IE?

File API - irrelevant since WP7 does not have user accessible file system. They may implement some access to the gallery though.

Web Workers - pretty much everything I said for web sockets applies here (including that they are coming in IE10). However Web Workers have a small niche useage compared to Web Workers.

No access to the camera... hmmm. May be useful but I have yet to see site that uses this.

Not sure what Web Notifications is

So really the only thing I care about as of today - Forms. Now if more sites start using Web Sockets and Web Workers and they stop working on IE I will care about these too but this is not currently the case.

And what exactly is your problem?
 
You can't possibly need a SCORE. You need some website to work. Unless you complain about something not working your complaint does not make sense. Lets see an example of what is not working (I tested with desktop IE9)

MathML - I guess you won't be able to see math formulas in HTML markup. Need that often?
No subtitles support in Video. Well that can be useful for some people.
No Ogg support? WTF why is this even in the tests?
No WebM support... Chrome is supposed to remove the H.264 support... lets see if they dare especially since safari does not support anything but H.264 (just like IE)
No support for Ogg and WebM in audio... we covered that already but IE loses points twice for the same thing

No support for reverse element on ordered list. Important? I doubt it.
Some stupid semantic elements with no real usage like "time". Do you care?

Forms... now this is big (and IE loses a lot of points here). There are no inputs for phone number, email, datetime etc. IE10 is going to have those on the desktop so I have to assume it will have it on the phone. This is really important and much more important on the phone than on the desktop

Many points lost for lack of drag & drop support... on a Phone. Not serious.

History and navigation - that might be useful but no one can really use it yet. This is supposed to replace the # after the URLs on many websites like twitter and facebook and provide the devs with the option to use real URLs that can change. I would consider this important if sites were actually using it but as of now they can't afford to use it. IE10 will support this.

Microdata - useless

I am not sure what this Web Application section is so I won't comment

I am not sure of the impact of the iFrame security so I will not comment either.

WebGL as a hardcore gamer I think the success of this technology can damage serious gaming and produce more tower defense and angry birds games. Maybe you care about this "HTML5 gaming" oxymoron but I don't. Also I doubt that mobile devices will have the power to run WebGL games that run slow on the desktop. Also they are ugly.

Communication... Do you know that the web sockets implementation in the android browser is now broken because the standard changed and they had implemented the old version? Anyway this is not in widespread usage yet and is coming in IE10 in much more stable (as in "unlikely to change") form. Desktop Chrome changed the implementation (because the standard changed) and broke existing apps. Would you like this to happen with IE?

File API - irrelevant since WP7 does not have user accessible file system. They may implement some access to the gallery though.

Web Workers - pretty much everything I said for web sockets applies here (including that they are coming in IE10). However Web Workers have a small niche useage compared to Web Workers.

No access to the camera... hmmm. May be useful but I have yet to see site that uses this.

Not sure what Web Notifications is

So really the only thing I care about as of today - Forms. Now if more sites start using Web Sockets and Web Workers and they stop working on IE I will care about these too but this is not currently the case.

And what exactly is your problem?
First Eirenarch, I invite you to re-read post #6. Specifically the first 2 paragraphs.

This reminds me of the loyal blackberry community that completely downplayed as to how much people would want large touch screen, and easy to use operating system when the first iPhone came out, and all the way until iPhone 4 and Android completely swallowed the market they once had.

The argument here isn't as to which of the features are 100% mandatory to have, but about who has MOST tools in order to provide developers what they need in order to make the next hits like Glympse, Angry Birds, Shazam, and so on and so forth. Just because items you listed aren't important to you, doesn't mean someone isn't going to figure out how to use them. They are on the list for a reason, and believe me, it's not some kind of conspiracy to promote Chrome and sink Internet Explorer.

It's easy to say who cares about web sockets on mobile device? A dynamic content exchange developer might, easily. Who says that drag and drop is irrelevant because it's MOBILE. Perhaps Android 5.0 will support desktop file system, and their browser is already setup to perform tasks most users would love to have.

When Palm's WebOS API refused to give the developers ability to record audio, and community shrugged it off, the end result was - NO Shazam for the platform.

And here is another thought, the strength or Windows 8, as advertised by Microsoft is the ecosystem it will live in. The equilibrium so to speak where the mobile, desktop, gaming, and web content lives in the bubble and can easily interact with each other. As well as developers having to easily port the features from one medium to another. Do you see how lacking features may hinder the process? Like the features you shrug off because "who cares about them on mobile!?"

I also would like to remind you that the desktop version of IE9 scores just as poorly as Mobile version currently. And while you may say that some of these features don't apply to mobile, they certainly apply to desktop version of IE9.

The bottom line, as it stands, IE10 Beta desktop version scores worse than currently deployed mobile version of Chrome and Safari. So when a developer looks at it and creates a new global hit and then puts a little icon saying "Requires Google Chrome - Download Here", where do you think customers are going to go? As it stands, and quite frankly, it's always been, designers and developers (and you can count me as one), hear "Internet Explorer" and immediately get a sour taste in their mouth.

If MS is serious about this competition, they (and we) can't shrug off any features competition has, especially when it comes to being a pioneer in writing & using new standards for the web. Otherwise, what will IE have that Chrome wouldn't?

And just as a side note, I've been doing some web animations using HTML5 and for the most part compatibility has been a nightmare. All browsers have issues where certain things don't show up, or snap into place wrong, or place randomly where not supposed to be. So in the end I end up re-making same thing multiple times. However, I do get best results on Chrome so far. (All that makes me very sad Flash is going away, actually.)

P.S. By the way, I mention Chrome a lot but I actually primarily use Firefox. Just a habit I suppose from the earlier days. So don't take it as a campaign to promote Chrome, or worse yet, Google as a whole.
 
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First of all I am far from WP ******. However you can count me as a web hater. I think this platform is severe mistake and the widespread adoption pulls the IT world 10 years back. I am also a professional web developer for the last 5 years. I do not focus on frontend (so I do not know much about animations) but on my current job I am the one responsible for most of the communication between the browser and the server so stuff like Web Sockets is exactly what I work with... except that I do not work with web sockets because you cannot currently deploy web sockets solution in a production environment.

As far as I understand you are complaining that WP is not good platform for innovation in web applications. I agree. However I think this is the right thing to do. Providing platform for innovation sacrifises user experience. Remember Android (and Chrome) broke existing web sockets applications. If anyone was using them I bet he was pissed off when they stopped working suddenly.

Now if the next Angry Birds comes around and at this point WP cannot run it that would be bad but it hasn't. Also I doubt that innovations would come from the web. Usually the innovation is implemented in some native tech and later ported to the web as was the case with Angry Birds (if we can call this remarkably stupid game innovative).

So if someone figures out how to use these technologies to make the next big thing I will be with you in this. So far no one has therefore as an user I couldn't care less about these technologies*

* Except HTML Forms - HTML Forms rule!
 
As a professional developer, I for one would not code agains a non-exisitant standard. Doing so just reopens the 'browser wars' of the late 1990's. Web sites that are 'best viewed' by a certain browser.If you wish to test and compare do so against the approved and adopted standards and code to that standard. If you wish to be 'bleeding edge' that is your business but don't complain if a particular browser does not support a proposed but not excepted item
 
As a professional developer, I for one would not code agains a non-exisitant standard. Doing so just reopens the 'browser wars' of the late 1990's. Web sites that are 'best viewed' by a certain browser.If you wish to test and compare do so against the approved and adopted standards and code to that standard. If you wish to be 'bleeding edge' that is your business but don't complain if a particular browser does not support a proposed but not excepted item

You are exactly right! There are a lot of elements in the HTML5 draft that can be used however there is still intense debate over things like WebGL, video formats, etc... and support for those varies to the point that if you really want to see 'the whole web' you need to have Safari, Firefox, Chrome AND IE all installed.
We're on our way back to the 'Best viewed in X browser' landing page days.
 
I don't care if it's faster or slower than other browsers I'll never use; I only need it to be fast enough. As a merely clever user/surfer, I've browsed some of the few HTML5 sites out there, with IE8 and 9, and if this is 140, it's plenty fast. It may be that current development is very elementary. I'm confident all browsers will keep up as they always have, and that some will always be faster than others. Opera is a "lightning fast" browser, but I've never stayed with it. Here's an entertaining Opera-is-faster discussion: Joe and Buzz - Joe and Buzz: Nerdneck

BTW, do you have an example of a website that any IE can't handle or renders slowly -noticeably-so?
 
As a professional developer, I for one would not code agains a non-exisitant standard. Doing so just reopens the 'browser wars' of the late 1990's. Web sites that are 'best viewed' by a certain browser.If you wish to test and compare do so against the approved and adopted standards and code to that standard. If you wish to be 'bleeding edge' that is your business but don't complain if a particular browser does not support a proposed but not excepted item

The problem is that war is unavoidable. There is a reason why Google is setting itself up to have most features (even if not used commonly) available. Once a feature becomes popular enough, chances are it will be in an official standard. The more developers write for Chrome, more exclusive content they get because other browsers don't keep up, more users Google will get. Which means more pull they will get to do what they want when it comes to "standards". You are right, many of these features will be changed or go away completely, but Google is out there on the front lines, getting the developers, getting the users. And IE is on the back burner - waiting. There is reason why Google is running ads promoting chrome development platform. There is a reason why it has Angry Birds available for it.

My whole intent here is not to promote Google, or nit pick the HTML5 features, but simply to underline that Microsoft should be doing more to keep up with the front runners if they don't want to lose even more market share and another browser war. As a designer I rarely had pleasant experience with any version of IE. As a developer, you probably can relate as well.
 
I don't care if it's faster or slower than other browsers I'll never use; I only need it to be fast enough. As a merely clever user/surfer, I've browsed some of the few HTML5 sites out there, with IE8 and 9, and if this is 140, it's plenty fast. It may be that current development is very elementary. I'm confident all browsers will keep up as they always have, and that some will always be faster than others. Opera is a "lightning fast" browser, but I've never stayed with it. Here's an entertaining Opera-is-faster discussion: Joe and Buzz - Joe and Buzz: Nerdneck

BTW, do you have an example of a website that any IE can't handle or renders slowly -noticeably-so?
It's not really what this thread is about, but since you want a sample, checkout (in Chrome and then IE): thewildernessdowntown.com
 
As a self-described web hater I would rather see Microsoft invest and promote things like Silverlight (XAML or whatever they call it now) and XNA which will improve the quality of the platform by providing better and more efficient dev platform rather than the web fashion. Of course you may disagree. It even seems that MS does not fully agree but I doubt I will ever be disappointed by the lack of some web tech game on any platform I use.
 
Have you tested IE9 on Windows 7? It scores lower.

So yeah, not feeling so bad about the WP7 version scoring where it does.
wrong it score 141

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on topic since when ogg and webM considered requirement of HTML5 :dry
 
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