Is anyone else bothered?

[AgentTheGreat]

...that version after version, Microsoft keeps pushing out "features" most people won't use - like Timeline - and talking about it a whole lot and they just don't care a bit about polishing the OS where it matters?
Isn't it that the OS is used on Microsoft's iconic TOUCH devices and tablets, and yet they just don't care enough to make ANY improvements to Tablet Mode?

​

Look at this UI. Look at the scroll bar and how it overlaps with the buttons. Notice how messy it looks, how the disconnect buttons don't align.
No one at Microsoft working with this ever decided "hey, it's an embarrassment. We're a reputable software company" and after YEARS they haven't bothered to give us something we don't want to throw up on?

Or is it just me?

 

[ochhanz]

...that version after version, Microsoft keeps pushing out "features" most people won't use - like Timeline - and talking about it a whole lot and they just don't care a bit about polishing the OS where it matters?
Isn't it that the OS is used on Microsoft's iconic TOUCH devices and tablets, and yet they just don't care enough to make ANY improvements to Tablet Mode?

, agree with tablet mode (especially that lack of animations + gestures) but I would say timeline is quite handy especially on tablets.
It does matter a bit how devs add support for timeline, at default the tiles are decent but if devs add support for it (like e.g. MS itself with the Windows Store app) it works very well.
It also does not seem to be all that much work to add support for it (if someone uses UWP at least).

Also iirc MS said they will improve touch uses on Windows in general (/regardless of tablet mode), so that might also be a reason too why they change almost nothing on tablet mode.

 

[Ryujingt3]

Unfortunatey this is typical MS. There are parts of Windows 10 that still use UI from older versions of Windows. MS always like to promote features that nobody uses, like Live Tiles (which I use - sorry, couldn't resist it).

 

[AgentTheGreat]

Unfortunatey this is typical MS. There are parts of Windows 10 that still use UI from older versions of Windows. MS always like to promote features that nobody uses, like Live Tiles (which I use - sorry, couldn't resist it).

I think Live Tiles can be useful on Windows (they aren't right now IMO) only if they are treated like standardized widgets. I visualized the concept in another post:
https://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10/485957-windows-10-ui-tweaks-redesign.html#post3776925

 

[ochhanz]

I think Live Tiles can be useful on Windows (they aren't right now IMO) only if they are treated like standardized widgets. I visualized the concept in another post:
https://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10/485957-windows-10-ui-tweaks-redesign.html#post3776925

, but you would miss the ability to pin apps somewhere (the desktop is not good with touch and you cannot group and resize stuff there). I don't know why people want tiles to go away they are icons but better with more functions.
They also work great on Windows htpc's.

 

[Ryujingt3]

, but you would miss the ability to pin apps somewhere (the desktop is not good with touch and you cannot group and resize stuff there). I don't know why people want tiles to go away they are icons but better with more functions.
They also work great on Windows htpc's.

I'd just be happy if Windows 10 let you save your Live Tiles start menu layout o your MS account, which was restored every time you reinstalled Windows.

 

[AgentTheGreat]

, but you would miss the ability to pin apps somewhere (the desktop is not good with touch and you cannot group and resize stuff there). I don't know why people want tiles to go away they are icons but better with more functions.
They also work great on Windows htpc's.

, but you would miss the ability to pin apps somewhere (the desktop is not good with touch and you cannot group and resize stuff there). I don't know why people want tiles to go away they are icons but better with more functions.
They also work great on Windows htpc's.

The reason is the failure of Tablet Mode. You'd pin Live Tiles in Tablet Mode the same way you do now. The problem is the tiles are not appropriate and functional on the *desktop* and my idea is to make them actually useful on the desktop.
Philosophically the tiles were created to give you an at a glance view of everything, and it's obvious cramming them in the desktop Start menu was from a lack of polish moving from Windows 8 to 10: they didn't rethink tiles on Windows 10 and went with "well, don't touch them" and therefore they stayed in "Start" as if Windows 10's Start was the same as Windows 8's. It isnt.
Making the at a glance nature of tiles a priority again by putting them on the desktop AND adding more functionality to them makes them suitable and appropriate for the desktop, while keeping them the same way they are now on Tablet Mode for the purpose you pointed out.

 

[ochhanz]

I'd just be happy if Windows 10 let you save your Live Tiles start menu layout o your MS account, which was restored every time you reinstalled Windows.

, that would make sense idd. You can do it relatively quick by c&p a certain file but automatically would be nice.

The reason is the failure of Tablet Mode. You'd pin Live Tiles in Tablet Mode the same way you do now. The problem is the tiles are not appropriate and functional on the *desktop* and my idea is to make them actually useful on the desktop.
Philosophically the tiles were created to give you an at a glance view of everything, and it's obvious cramming them in the desktop Start menu was from a lack of polish moving from Windows 8 to 10: they didn't rethink tiles on Windows 10 and went with "well, don't touch them" and therefore they stayed in "Start" as if Windows 10's Start was the same as Windows 8's. It isnt.
Making the at a glance nature of tiles a priority again by putting them on the desktop AND adding more functionality to them makes them suitable and appropriate for the desktop, while keeping them the same way they are now on Tablet Mode for the purpose you pointed out.

, but what about 2-1 & touchscreen laptops than? (which are quite popular these days) They are sometimes tablets and sometimes desktops. You would than need to keep a seperate pin list for the tablet start menu and one for the desktop start menu (sounds like a hassle for the user).

 

[anthonyng]

I make my desktop start menu super big and like it, not crammed

 

[ochhanz]

I make my desktop start menu super big and like it, not crammed

, yeah I like fullscreen start menu more too than the default one. In the start menu you aren't going to look at unfocused apps to the right of it anyway so fullscreen makes sense even on desktops. Lots of area to pin/group apps while I keep the desktop for temporary/downloaded files.

 

[Ryujingt3]

, yeah I like fullscreen start menu more too than the default one. In the start menu you aren't going to look at unfocused apps to the right of it anyway so fullscreen makes sense even on desktops. Lots of area to pin/group apps while I keep the desktop for temporary/downloaded files.

I must be the only person who actually quite liked what MS tried to do with Windows 8.1. I guess that's quite similar to using the full screen Start menu option in Windows 10.

 

[ochhanz]

I must be the only person who actually quite liked what MS tried to do with Windows 8.1. I guess that's quite similar to using the full screen Start menu option in Windows 10.

, I sort off skipped 8 & 8.1 so I can't really compare them in detail with 10 (I only used 8.1 for a few minutes), cannot really see much difference between the 2 fullscreen start menu's though (besides the colors/tiles of 10 are different, its vertical instead of horizontal and more group focussed). It seems like the W10 one is slightly more focussed on productivity (does 8/8.1 actually even have jumplists on the tiles?).

 

[AgentTheGreat]

, that would make sense idd. You can do it relatively quick by c&p a certain file but automatically would be nice.

, but what about 2-1 & touchscreen laptops than? (which are quite popular these days) They are sometimes tablets and sometimes desktops. You would than need to keep a seperate pin list for the tablet start menu and one for the desktop start menu (sounds like a hassle for the user).

It is literally called "desktop mode". Just because there are 2 in 1s that force their user to work in the desktop mode - again, because of the failure of tablet mode - doesn't mean the rest of us should get barely usable tiles on our desktops, giving up functionality that should have been tailored for the desktop.

You want to have apps pinned in the desktop mode too, if you're a 2 in 1 user? Use the taskbar. You use those particular apps a lot? Windows should remember them and provide a "most used" section in the Start menu on the desktop. Again, the *desktop mode* should get desktop features, features that are tailored for the desktop, and taking up huge space just for pinning apps in the form of tiles is not justifiable on the desktop.
"Pinning" is not such a big deal as you are making it out to be. How do the rest of us "pin" what we want in the desktop? Isn't the 2 in 1 user already forced to work on the desktop with icons, dragging windows around with a pen? They're fine with icons on the taskbar, icons in the Start menu and they will be fine with actually functional tiles on the desktop.

And you get to resize icons into tiles in my mock up.

 

[AgentTheGreat]

Honestly I'm sick of people too.
Same people who championed Windows 8's schism of personality are generally fine with the status quo, whatever it may be. If Microsoft designed the OS in any other way, they'd arguing for that design regardless of its merits.

 

[anon(5327127)]

The odd thing is this... no matter which OX, be it Win Vista, Win 7, 8 or 10, I've still just carried on working. I'm an admin, so I knew that I had (at that point) to embrace the Windows 8 changes, but since then it's been pretty much work as normal. It is annoying that some stuff has been split, from the Control Panel, but I can see where they're going.

As long as I can still work, without issue, it makes little difference what OS flashy thing they change today.

 

[ochhanz]

Honestly I'm sick of people too.
Same people who championed Windows 8's schism of personality are generally fine with the status quo, whatever it may be. If Microsoft designed the OS in any other way, they'd arguing for that design regardless of its merits.

, the taskbar can hold only so much icons before it gets messy, desktops get messy if you place many shortcuts there and an app gallery becomes cluttered if you install quite a few programs. Search is an ok solution but takes more time than just pinning it once and memorizing its position.

 

[Ryujingt3]

The odd thing is this... no matter which OX, be it Win Vista, Win 7, 8 or 10, I've still just carried on working. I'm an admin, so I knew that I had (at that point) to embrace the Windows 8 changes, but since then it's been pretty much work as normal. It is annoying that some stuff has been split, from the Control Panel, but I can see where they're going.

As long as I can still work, without issue, it makes little difference what OS flashy thing they change today.

This. Sure, MS may change the OS design, but I also just continue using it without any real fuss.

 

[AgentTheGreat]

, the taskbar can hold only so much icons before it gets messy, desktops get messy if you place many shortcuts there and an app gallery becomes cluttered if you install quite a few programs. Search is an ok solution but takes more time than just pinning it once and memorizing its position.

If the desktop gets messy with icons on it, the Start menu is already messy full of tiles.
This is not a valid point.

Tiles were never designed for you to pin stuff somewhere. Go read up on the philosophy of tiles.
Also those same 2 in 1 users are already dealing with icons on the taskbar and on the desktop. It's not like they can only interact with pinned tiles otherwise they just can't do what they do. Yours seems to me a made up excuse for how you want to use tiles and Start the hacky way you do now.

 

[nate0]

...that version after version, Microsoft keeps pushing out "features" most people won't use - like Timeline - and talking about it a whole lot and they just don't care a bit about polishing the OS where it matters?
Isn't it that the OS is used on Microsoft's iconic TOUCH devices and tablets, and yet they just don't care enough to make ANY improvements to Tablet Mode?

View attachment 141797
Look at this UI. Look at the scroll bar and how it overlaps with the buttons. Notice how messy it looks, how the disconnect buttons don't align.
No one at Microsoft working with this ever decided "hey, it's an embarrassment. We're a reputable software company" and after YEARS they haven't bothered to give us something we don't want to throw up on?

Or is it just me?

Yep. Time line is the most resource and feature wasteful piece I've found so far. On pc I don't need to look at it but on my 950xl with woa I can turn it off. That and the mix of win32 and uwp services/alps all over the place. I think you nailed it right with the word embarrassment.

 

[nate0]

So it's basically become a testing ground for wcos w10x or whatever super secretitive OS they have lying dormant. I'm guessing maybe this pardons their mess a bit....? When they start telling everyone to go over this way and chase the shiny red button in q4.