Is Microsoft's "business approach" working-out well for Mobile?

[Shamshi-Adad]

This seems to be the problem. Nadella stated they are building products we all will Love and want to use, not building product forced on you by your boss. THIS will not help at all. It WILL create further animosity towards MS (especially after the forced Win 10 debacle).

THAT is an EXCELLENT POINT! But I AM sorry how true it may be.

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

A brief excerpt from the Windows Central article on the Surphace Phone which was almost 100% nothing but a quote from MS:

Article: Is early 2018 too soon for a Surface phone? | Windows Central

<begin paste>
Though not a smartphone competing directly with rivals' smartphones, as a game changing "ultimate mobile device" positioned to redefine mobile, it will indirectly compete in that space and will need to do what smartphones do....
<end paste>

MS IS going to do that and we are/will suffer the birthing pains.

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[a5cent]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

3 Phones per year, Redstone 2 will be more focused on Mobile. "Microsoft is fully committed to W10M" - What's happening now is not what looks like full commitment to me.

Most likely reason of killing Lumia line is probably they plan to kill W10M or just let it die naturally.

I THINK (could be wrong) both of you are making a similar and common mistake. MS is fully committed to W10M! MS is nowhere close to letting W10M die. I would argue they are more committed to W10M than they were ever committed to WP!

Being committed to W10M just doesn't mean that MS is also committed to smartphones. MS will continue to invest in W10M, but they will invest next to nothing in smartphones. Those are two different things. Not differing between the two is the mistake I think you are both making.

From here on out, when trying to understand MS, you must completely forget about smartphones. In regard to W10M, that means we may no longer view it as a pure smartphone OS (like iOS or Android). W10M is just a more lightweight, secure and consumer friendly version of W10 for running UWP apps.

Right now there is simply no hardware platform MS plans to pair W10M with. In a sense, for some consumers, that means it may as well be dead. That's just technically incorrect. W10M will continue to be developed along with the rest of W10. At some point, when (if) UWP becomes a viable platform on it own, W10M will make perfect sense again.

 

[petvas72]

You speak English extremely well. Are you an ex-pat, Foreign Service, well educated? I've been to Mannheim a few times back in the 60s and 70s

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

Well, thank you! I learned English at school and then continued up to the First Certificate in the English language. I have studied German literature at the University, so my education background is very much related to languages. I have also been working for international companies, like Microsoft and now Deutsche Telekom, so I am used in communicating in English.

Anyway, back to topic. I like using my Lumia 950XL despite its shortcomings. It is almost the perfect companion to my Surface Book.
If Microsoft manages to make the UWP platform attractive to developers, then we will slowly see more apps appearing. It is not over yet for the Windows platform on mobile. Windows Mobile 10 can run UWP apps, so whatever strategy Microsoft has, the OS might also benefit from it (at least in the long run).

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

I THINK (could be wrong) both of you are making a similar and common mistake. MS is fully committed to W10M! MS is nowhere close to letting W10M die. I would argue they are more committed to W10M than they were ever committed to WP!

Being committed to W10M just doesn't mean that MS is also committed to smartphones. MS will continue to invest in W10M, but they will invest next to nothing in smartphones. Those are two different things. Not differing between the two is the mistake I think you are both making.

From here on out, when trying to understand MS, you must completely forget about smartphones. In regard to W10M, that means we may no longer view it as a pure smartphone OS (like iOS or Android). W10M is just a more lightweight, secure and consumer friendly version of W10 for running UWP apps.

Right now there is simply no hardware platform MS plans to pair W10M with. In a sense, for some consumers, that means it may as well be dead. That's just technically incorrect. W10M will continue to be developed along with the rest of W10. At some point, when (if) UWP becomes a viable platform on it own, W10M will make perfect sense again.

WOW!!!! Where you hail from, son? :winktongue:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Well, thank you! I learned English at school and then continued up to the First Certificate in the English language. I have studied German literature at the University, so my education background is very much related to languages. I have also been working for international companies, like Microsoft and now Deutsche Telekom, so I am used in communicating in English.

Anyway, back to topic. I like using my Lumia 950XL despite its shortcomings. It is almost the perfect companion to my Surface Book.
If Microsoft manages to make the UWP platform attractive to developers, then we will slowly see more apps appearing. It is not over yet for the Windows platform on mobile. Windows Mobile 10 can run UWP apps, so whatever strategy Microsoft has, the OS might also benefit from it (at least in the long run).

Plus, you're a nice man. :smile:

The thing is the "birth pains", as I like to call it, that we will have to suffer through. If we were on nothing but Android or iOS it wouldn't impact us. But we LOVE windows and we'd like all our equipment to be unified - so there's THAT pain.
Then there's the Android and iOS users and media that we feel are laughing at us.

All I can say is our day WILL come and WITH a ground breaking change in the Smartphone industry as well.

In the meantime - we have to deal.

I suspect we, you and I, are more in agreement than not. FOR SURE I know I could have a few beers with you...:winktongue:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[a5cent]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

WOW!!!! Where you hail from, son? :winktongue.

Right now from Mexico. Next week from San Diego, but normally from beautiful Switzerland

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

Right now from Mexico. Next week from San Diego, but normally from beautiful Switzerland ??????

Dayum... Every time I read one of your posts I think "WOW!"

Seems like you and petvas72 BOTH have some creditentials... :winktongue:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[techiez]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

I THINK (could be wrong) both of you are making a similar and common mistake. MS is fully committed to W10M! MS is nowhere close to letting W10M die. I would argue they are more committed to W10M than they were ever committed to WP!

Being committed to W10M just doesn't mean that MS is also committed to smartphones. MS will continue to invest in W10M, but they will invest next to nothing in smartphones. Those are two different things. Not differing between the two is the mistake I think you are both making.

From here on out, when trying to understand MS, you must completely forget about smartphones. In regard to W10M, that means we may no longer view it as a pure smartphone OS (like iOS or Android). W10M is just a more lightweight, secure and consumer friendly version of W10 for running UWP apps.

Right now there is simply no hardware platform MS plans to pair W10M with. In a sense, for some consumers, that means it may as well be dead. That's just technically incorrect. W10M will continue to be developed along with the rest of W10. At some point, when (if) UWP becomes a viable platform on it own, W10M will make perfect sense again.

As you said, there is no hardware platform to pair with W10M, WoA will be used for hybrid computing devices, and Windows 10 cloud will be W10M's alternate for lightweight App only device.

 

[Alyeldiin]

That's correct



The future of the platform IS NOT UNCERTAIN. MS has clearly been saying for a while now that they DON'T want to continue with Smartphones. They've repeatedly been saying they want to COMPETE with Smartphones indirectly with Pocket PCs running Windows 10 on ARM with Smartphone capabilities. WHAT'S UNCERTAIN?



In the interim could you use banking and tram/busses websites? ON the others, your own recommended alternatives?



You call it "Starting from scratch". Others call it Evolving or Morphing. The thing is we're conscious of it; we're impacted by this "birthing process" AND IT HURTS, I'll admit.


Nonsense. Come on now.... :wink:


Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

Man a PC pocket is still somewhat different from a smartphone. Just because you can carry your laptop around all day doesn't mean you won't be using your smartphone. And even when the surface phone comes out the app problem won't be solved, because there aren't that many programs for all services, and (if I get it right) they're not all optimized to work on small screens.

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Man a PC pocket is still somewhat different from a smartphone. Just because you can carry your laptop around all day doesn't mean you won't be using your smartphone. And even when the surface phone comes out the app problem won't be solved, because there aren't that many programs for all services, and (if I get it right) they're not all optimized to work on small screens.

I was quoting the and speaking from the Windows Central article from MS on the MS future of their "Smartphone"/Surface Phone. Debate with them...:wink:

This is 2 screens not 1, sometimes merged into 1 screen:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[petvas72]

If Microsoft wants a chance in the mobile phone business, then they must improve the app situation. Having only continuum will not make things any better.

 

[anon(50597)]

If Microsoft wants a chance in the mobile phone business, then they must improve the app situation. Having only continuum will not make things any better.

Not saying you're wrong, just posing a question. Will apps be around forever? Will there ever be something new and different that takes over? If so, how soon?
Interesting topics to contemplate.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[petvas72]

Not saying you're wrong, just posing a question. Will apps be around forever? Will there ever be something new and different that takes over? If so, how soon?
Interesting topics to contemplate.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

Apps might go one day, but the functionality people get from these apps will not. I don't know if the future is based on bots only or some kind of new technology. What is important is that the functionality is there..

 

[anon(50597)]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

Apps might go one day, but the functionality people get from these apps will not. I don't know if the future is based on bots only or some kind of new technology. What is important is that the functionality is there..

True. Technology is always changing.
That's why I think MS has smartly moved on. The smartphone/app market has been written. I don't think there's anything they could do at this point to get back in the game and it would be a waste of time and money since it won't last forever. They must plan to move forward to the next upcoming breakthrough.
I don't know what it is, and I'm not convinced they'll be successful, but it's exciting to think about and I am going to enjoy going along for the ride.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[petvas72]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

True. Technology is always changing.
That's why I think MS has smartly moved on. The smartphone/app market has been written. I don't think there's anything they could do at this point to get back in the game and it would be a waste of time and money since it won't last forever. They must plan to move forward to the next upcoming breakthrough.
I don't know what it is, and I'm not convinced they'll be successful, but it's exciting to think about and I am going to enjoy going along for the ride.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

Yes, they seem to move along, but the question is, should windows fans continue investing their time and money in Windows Mobile? I think the answer is no..

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

Yes, they seem to move along, but the question is, should windows fans continue investing their time and money in Windows Mobile? I think the answer is no..

All fans don't have the same criteria for being a fan. For example, for me there is no App Gap and there won't be for the foreseeable future. And other than that, the hardware also meets my needs. Say I'm retired and my needs are less. So my ICON can last me for probably another 2 years. In 2 YEARS we're ALL gonna know what the future is because we'll be in it...:winktongue:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

A Windows Central article, Does Windows 10 Mobile Have A Future

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[anon(50597)]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

Yes, they seem to move along, but the question is, should windows fans continue investing their time and money in Windows Mobile? I think the answer is no..

How about we let each individual make that decision.
For me it meets my needs, but we're all different so I respect your decision.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[a5cent]

Re: Is Microsoft's &quot;business approach&quot; working-out well for Mobile?

A Windows Central article, Does Windows 10 Mobile Have A Future.

Thanks for the link. However, I don't find the article convincing at all. In his analysis Zac doesn't consider much beyond "lightweight OS" (W10M) for low end devices vs. heavyweight OS (W10oA) for high end devices. That's a very narrow view.

In particular, it completely ignores the reasons why W10M was created in the first place. W10M is a far more secure OS than full Windows can ever be (among many other things also by requiring users to download software through a managed store). It requires almost no administrative/maintenance work like desktop Windows does (no registry rot, no unclean uninstall etc). It deals not only with keyboards and mice, but also with touch. It scales well on high dpi displays like the ones smartphones have. And much much more... the Win32 desktop environment will not achieve any of that easily, at least not without sacrificing compatibility, which is not an option.

All of the above things are still required! It's expected from a modern OS. What version of Windows delivers those features without including Win32 and the desktop (the inclusion of which would negate all the benefits)? W10M? Windows Cloud?

I have not read enough about the Windows Cloud SKU to really understand it. If it is true that it is really only a version of Windows that is limited to using apps from the Store (a.k.a UWP apps), well guess what? We already have that! That is exactly what W10M is.

Lastly, Zak mentions that W10M could be repositioned for more than just phones, but it actually already is. It was said from the outset (over two years ago) that W10M is also for tablets.

So, take W10M, install it on a 5" device with a foldable display that can be unfolded to 10". Rename the OS to Windows Cloud (despite having nothing to do with the cloud). Presto: Surface booklet (or whatever they call it) running Windows Cloud... actually W10M repositioned as a Chromebook competitor rather than an Android competitor.

I would not be surprised if Windows Cloud is just the next big iteration of W10M but rebranded.

Some might think that makes no sense, because W10M (the OS) must look different on a tablet than on a phone. That is wrong. The OS stays the same. It's the individual apps (dialer, people, contacts, photos, etc) that adapt their UIs to different screen sizes. That's what continuum is, and that is encoded in the individual apps already today, not in the OS.