Is Microsoft's "business approach" working-out well for Mobile?

[HeyCori]

Re: Is Microsoft's "business approach" working-out well for Mobile?

Microsoft was likely sincere in their desire to focus on enterprise. They aligned themselves with HP and created Continuum as something to sell to businesses, I just don't think businesses were biting. Justifiably, there's no reason to. Companies (like general consumers) don't live in a vacuum. No one can rely on the software created by just one company. There's an entire software ecosystem that businesses lose access to by choosing Windows phone. So maybe Microsoft thought they could leverage their strength in enterprise to jump start the WP market, but again, businesses don't want a device with such huge limitations. And it remains to be seen if/when consumers will ever want a single device that does everything.

I do believe the smartest move Microsoft can make at the moment is to keep pushing UWP and the Windows Store. There are hundreds of millions of Windows 10 PCs out there along with some 20-30 million Xbox Ones. Microsoft needs to kick UWP into high gear, especially if they plan on using Windows 10 Cloud to compete with Chromebooks. The phone market is over for MS and they know it. Time to focus on their strengths which is PCs and consoles.

 

[a5cent]

Re: Is Microsoft's "business approach" working-out well for Mobile?

Microsoft was likely sincere in their desire to focus on enterprise. They aligned themselves with HP and created Continuum as something to sell to businesses, I just don't think businesses were biting.

I have a different take on this.

Continuum was neither built for nor specifically targeted towards the enterprise. Continuum is simply a logical result of the UWP and One Core. That is to say, if you have a single runtime environment (UWP) running on a very wide range of form factors, and you want the ability to taget all form factors with a single program, you must provide a mechanism for app UIs to adapt to different display sizes. That is all continuum is. It's a natural and necessary result of wanting the UWP everywhere. Continuum was not targeted at any specific market segment. It had to be created, and it would have been created no matter what market MS is focused on.

The UWP was itself born out of WinRT, and WinRT was born because MS needed a simpler and more CONSUMER FRIENDLY OS. An OS with all the features I mentioned in my previous post. An OS that doesn't ever require IT knowledge to maintain in perfect working order. That's what the UWP (without Win32) is now intended to provide, and that is far more important for attracting consumers than it is to attract enterprise clients with IT departments.

IMHO we are only now starting to see the results of MS' focus on the enterprise. That focus was not so much on Continuum, but on things like W10oA. In contrast to the UWP and Continuum, which could become important to corporations in the future, W10oA is important to corporations now, because it gives their employees access to their existing Windows desktop software in a very small and portable (and likely also cheep) package.

This also fits quite well in the overall timeline of things. Software is very labour intensive. If MS announces a tactical shift in terms of what market they are focusing on, it will certainly take more than one or two months until the results are noticed in the market. Anything MS releases today was likely conceptualized at least a year ago. Often two years ago.

 

[cactuspete23]

Like seeing companies try new and different things.. And MS is big enough to come up with somethiung cool.. and big enough to absorb a few mistakes or things that don't work. Small mobile devices and phones will continue to be a large enough market that MS should always be trying to enter and/or increase market share. (Along with 1000's of other companies!)

 

[mattiasnyc]

Man a PC pocket is still somewhat different from a smartphone. Just because you can carry your laptop around all day doesn't mean you won't be using your smartphone.

True, but I think people currently use smartphones while carrying laptops because a) they're smaller, b) they have better battery life, and c) they've got internet connection. MS' approach would basically allow for 'bigger' app in a smaller package using ARM and with an internet connection. So with a smaller screen you'll draw less power, and the question then is just what size you prefer.

And even when the surface phone comes out the app problem won't be solved, because there aren't that many programs for all services, and (if I get it right) they're not all optimized to work on small screens.

But that's another place where MS is attempting to change how technology works, both for users and for developers. If I understand things correctly MS envisions that in the future there will be more reasons to code for UWP, and upcoming versions of W10 will allow for much more fluidity between form factors and processors. So you pretty much code once for UWP and it'll run fine on any size device running either x86 CPUs or ARM.

For us consumers what they appear to be thinking is that we want the "Windows 10 experience", regardless of the size of the device and how the software is coded and where it lives. If some experiences can be done using bots and an internet connection, but some require a UWP app, we "won't know it" necessarily, because it all looks the same to us. You move down to a certain screen size and you get your tiles, if you want to, and interact that way. You get to a place where there's a "dumb" screen/keyboard available and you connect to it instead, giving you more of a desktop experience, if you want to.

So the whole notion of "smartphone" in a sense goes out the window because all it really will be in the future is a "Windows 10 experience" on a smaller device. Look at it this way;

- if the current development of Continuum continues we'll have pretty much a desktop experience with compatible apps but using a "smartphone"

- if the projected development of Windows 10 continues we'll have pretty much a phone/tablet experience with compatible apps but using a desktop OS

In other words, to us the user the difference becomes meaningless. The only thing that matters to us is; is it Windows 10? and is this the size I want?



I digressed a little bit. I think my main point was just that MS thinks that in the future the way developers choose to code may change, and MS will adapt their technology in such a way that a "Windows 10 experience" will work fluidly on any device size. The developers won't have to choose between one or the other.

 

[anon(50597)]

True, but I think people currently use smartphones while carrying laptops because a) they're smaller, b) they have better battery life, and c) they've got internet connection. MS' approach would basically allow for 'bigger' app in a smaller package using ARM and with an internet connection. So with a smaller screen you'll draw less power, and the question then is just what size you prefer.



But that's another place where MS is attempting to change how technology works, both for users and for developers. If I understand things correctly MS envisions that in the future there will be more reasons to code for UWP, and upcoming versions of W10 will allow for much more fluidity between form factors and processors. So you pretty much code once for UWP and it'll run fine on any size device running either x86 CPUs or ARM.

For us consumers what they appear to be thinking is that we want the "Windows 10 experience", regardless of the size of the device and how the software is coded and where it lives. If some experiences can be done using bots and an internet connection, but some require a UWP app, we "won't know it" necessarily, because it all looks the same to us. You move down to a certain screen size and you get your tiles, if you want to, and interact that way. You get to a place where there's a "dumb" screen/keyboard available and you connect to it instead, giving you more of a desktop experience, if you want to.

So the whole notion of "smartphone" in a sense goes out the window because all it really will be in the future is a "Windows 10 experience" on a smaller device. Look at it this way;

- if the current development of Continuum continues we'll have pretty much a desktop experience with compatible apps but using a "smartphone"

- if the projected development of Windows 10 continues we'll have pretty much a phone/tablet experience with compatible apps but using a desktop OS

In other words, to us the user the difference becomes meaningless. The only thing that matters to us is; is it Windows 10? and is this the size I want?



I digressed a little bit. I think my main point was just that MS thinks that in the future the way developers choose to code may change, and MS will adapt their technology in such a way that a "Windows 10 experience" will work fluidly on any device size. The developers won't have to choose between one or the other.

Thank you. You've said it more technologically eloquent than I ever could. I am excited about the future of Windows and nothing would make me want them to copy Android or iPhone. They are creating the future (fingers crossed).

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

True, but I think people currently use smartphones while carrying laptops because a) they're smaller, b) they have better battery life, and c) they've got internet connection. MS' approach would basically allow for 'bigger' app in a smaller package using ARM and with an internet connection. So with a smaller screen you'll draw less power, and the question then is just what size you prefer.

But that's another place where MS is attempting to change how technology works, both for users and for developers. If I understand things correctly MS envisions that in the future there will be more reasons to code for UWP, and upcoming versions of W10 will allow for much more fluidity between form factors and processors. So you pretty much code once for UWP and it'll run fine on any size device running either x86 CPUs or ARM.

For us consumers what they appear to be thinking is that we want the "Windows 10 experience", regardless of the size of the device and how the software is coded and where it lives. If some experiences can be done using bots and an internet connection, but some require a UWP app, we "won't know it" necessarily, because it all looks the same to us. You move down to a certain screen size and you get your tiles, if you want to, and interact that way. You get to a place where there's a "dumb" screen/keyboard available and you connect to it instead, giving you more of a desktop experience, if you want to.

So the whole notion of "smartphone" in a sense goes out the window because all it really will be in the future is a "Windows 10 experience" on a smaller device. Look at it this way;

- if the current development of Continuum continues we'll have pretty much a desktop experience with compatible apps but using a "smartphone"

- if the projected development of Windows 10 continues we'll have pretty much a phone/tablet experience with compatible apps but using a desktop OS

In other words, to us the user the difference becomes meaningless. The only thing that matters to us is; is it Windows 10? and is this the size I want?

I digressed a little bit. I think my main point was just that MS thinks that in the future the way developers choose to code may change, and MS will adapt their technology in such a way that a "Windows 10 experience" will work fluidly on any device size. The developers won't have to choose between one or the other.

Bravo! :grin:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[Alyeldiin]

True, but I think people currently use smartphones while carrying laptops because a) they're smaller, b) they have better battery life, and c) they've got internet connection. MS' approach would basically allow for 'bigger' app in a smaller package using ARM and with an internet connection. So with a smaller screen you'll draw less power, and the question then is just what size you prefer.



But that's another place where MS is attempting to change how technology works, both for users and for developers. If I understand things correctly MS envisions that in the future there will be more reasons to code for UWP, and upcoming versions of W10 will allow for much more fluidity between form factors and processors. So you pretty much code once for UWP and it'll run fine on any size device running either x86 CPUs or ARM.

For us consumers what they appear to be thinking is that we want the "Windows 10 experience", regardless of the size of the device and how the software is coded and where it lives. If some experiences can be done using bots and an internet connection, but some require a UWP app, we "won't know it" necessarily, because it all looks the same to us. You move down to a certain screen size and you get your tiles, if you want to, and interact that way. You get to a place where there's a "dumb" screen/keyboard available and you connect to it instead, giving you more of a desktop experience, if you want to.

So the whole notion of "smartphone" in a sense goes out the window because all it really will be in the future is a "Windows 10 experience" on a smaller device. Look at it this way;

- if the current development of Continuum continues we'll have pretty much a desktop experience with compatible apps but using a "smartphone"

- if the projected development of Windows 10 continues we'll have pretty much a phone/tablet experience with compatible apps but using a desktop OS

In other words, to us the user the difference becomes meaningless. The only thing that matters to us is; is it Windows 10? and is this the size I want?



I digressed a little bit. I think my main point was just that MS thinks that in the future the way developers choose to code may change, and MS will adapt their technology in such a way that a "Windows 10 experience" will work fluidly on any device size. The developers won't have to choose between one or the other.

You sir might have just persuaded me. Well, almost. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen. I also still see no harm in Microsoft pushing for W10M, as they are still developing it, they might as well have kept it "more alive" - Looking forward to read counter arguments to yours. Cheers.

 

[Narr]

The big issue I currently have with Windows Mobile being business focused is that some of their business apps are horrible to use. They have good support for Intune but Yammer and Skype for Business are old and on life support and don't seem to have been updated in years. Plus MS bang's on about the bridges but they haven't used them for these 2 apps. Microsoft just don't seem very engaged in making Mobile a success.

 

[anon(50597)]

You sir might have just persuaded me. Well, almost. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen. I also still see no harm in Microsoft pushing for W10M, as they are still developing it, they might as well have kept it "more alive" - Looking forward to read counter arguments to yours. Cheers.

That's a good point and one of the things that is keeping me positive - they are actively developing/updating W10M. Being in the insider program allows me to see this. If that wasn't happening it would be much more difficult.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

That's a good point and one of the things that is keeping me positive - they are actively developing/updating W10M. Being in the insider program allows me to see this. If that wasn't happening it would be much more difficult.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

If I wasn't on the Insider Fast Ring I would be bored, just waiting around for the future of Win 10 M. :winktongue:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[a5cent]

Re: Is Microsoft's "business approach" working-out well for Mobile?

The big issue I currently have with Windows Mobile being business focused...

I'm convinced W10M is not business focused and never was!


That is exactly why we don't hear much about it at the moment... because MS is currently more focused on things that actually are relevant to businesses' mobile needs, like W10oA.

 

[Alyeldiin]

If I wasn't on the Insider Fast Ring I would be bored, just waiting around for the future of Win 10 M. :winktongue:

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

actually, I am bored in that matter. But having just one device that is also your daily driver, you can't jump on the insider program and face unexpected bugs and issues at times you could be critically needing your phone.

 

[SlideWRX]

...MS thinks that in the future the way developers choose to code may change, and MS will adapt their technology in such a way that a "Windows 10 experience" will work fluidly on any device size. The developers won't have to choose between one or the other.

This is ultimately what it comes down to, from MS's point of view. Whether developers code legacy programs, or apps through the store, MS is trying to setup so that the consumer and professional customers have access to both on practically any device. To do that, they need a desktop style interface for every device, and a touch screen interface for every device. They want a consumer style OS (no tech support needed) and a professional style OS (IT department).

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

actually, I am bored in that matter. But having just one device that is also your daily driver, you can't jump on the insider program and face unexpected bugs and issues at times you could be critically needing your phone.

Almost everyone on the Latest Fast Ring Thread does precisely that.

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[anon(50597)]

actually, I am bored in that matter. But having just one device that is also your daily driver, you can't jump on the insider program and face unexpected bugs and issues at times you could be critically needing your phone.

I'm on slow ring with my daily driver. Pretty safe.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Dead...............................?

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15031.0] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[anon(50597)]

Dead...............................?

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15031.0] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

The thread?

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

The thread? ??????

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

Yeah

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15031.0] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

This Thread seemed to start out as another, albeit, thinly veiled, attempt at a Windows 10 Mobile IS Dying Thread. Somehow, don't know how, maybe the participants (?) for a change it slowly turned into a positive expression of some sincere, no bull shi__ed, feelings with no negativity, just honesty. And it was good.

Now its gone; done.

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15031.0] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

 

[anon(50597)]

This Thread seemed to start out as another, albeit, thinly veiled, attempt at a Windows 10 Mobile IS Dying Thread. Somehow, don't know how, maybe the participants (?) for a change it slowly turned into a positive expression of some sincere, no bull shi__ed, feelings with no negativity, just honesty. And it was good.

Now its gone; done.

Peace. Alan
Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
Lumia ICON [Win10M 15031.0] Sportster
Even when I lose, I win.

Some people need a punching bag to let out their frustration. I'd rather look to the future with some positive Hope, since all Hope is not gone.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S