I don't find the S3 slow either (I have the 4gb version), though I wouldn't call if speedy. I think you're pretty brave for trying video editing on it... good luck.
Is Surface 3 still worth buying
- Thread starter srob030869
- Start date
I don't find the S3 slow either (I have the 4gb version), though I wouldn't call if speedy. I think you're pretty brave for trying video editing on it... good luck.
JDHamilton6
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- Oct 27, 2015
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Any S3 owners here that have also spent some time using the Core M version of the Surface Pro 4? I'd love to hear some compare/contrast details - particularly regarding the speed.
Steve Adams
Banned
- Nov 29, 2013
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UHHHHHH< It WAS my daily driver. Now its not because the surface is so much better as an EVERYTHING. I care less about if there are apps because I can load on REAL programs like photoshop, etc. No need for apps and childish interface that apple has. I had everything apple, then fire sold it at a massive loss because it was all crap. Have all MS gear for my wife and I now and it works sooooooo much better than any idevice.
I really wish people with intellect who surely know better would get of this "app gap" nonsense!
The Surface devices are x86 or x64 devices (not counting RT) as a result can run full programs; apps is a bonus. No one needs the crappy little half backed games and apps to do minimal things with their fingers when they could install the full thing and do their work or game. Apple has millions of apps; yes it does and you know why? THEY DO NOT RUN X86/X64 programs. It was either develop apps or die! If I were them I'd develop apps too; free ones, good ones, copied ones, similar ones, brown ones, black ones, just get apps. Cause it's their survival.
How many x86 and x64 programs are there in the world? Tell me that!
Start thinking people, you're embarrassing yourselves!!
The Surface devices are x86 or x64 devices (not counting RT) as a result can run full programs; apps is a bonus. No one needs the crappy little half backed games and apps to do minimal things with their fingers when they could install the full thing and do their work or game. Apple has millions of apps; yes it does and you know why? THEY DO NOT RUN X86/X64 programs. It was either develop apps or die! If I were them I'd develop apps too; free ones, good ones, copied ones, similar ones, brown ones, black ones, just get apps. Cause it's their survival.
How many x86 and x64 programs are there in the world? Tell me that!
Start thinking people, you're embarrassing yourselves!!
Steve Adams
Banned
- Nov 29, 2013
- 1,296
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EXACTLY! But the idevice folk don't understand that. I remember back when the imac was the "new thing" in the apple realm. A simple photo editing program that, on windows based systems was 99 bucks, was 499 on apple....and those "folk" went clammering for the 499 software because it was some how "better". Been there done that. lost ALOT of money needlessly.
Back on a 100 percent windows based platform and everything is great!
WillysJeepMan
Active member
- Aug 7, 2008
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Sorry, but you have a very simplistic view of the situation. But I get it. You're a fan of the Surface and feel the need to defend one area where it is deficient. I'm a fan of the Surface, still regularly use my Surface 2 but I can be honest about the app situation and how it is a detriment to the user experience.
If someone is using the Surface as a tablet, then touch optimized Modern UI apps improve and enhance the user experience. There is so much more to apps than simply the app-ified website variety. Touch optimized Modern UI apps are designed for efficient touch use... that is DIFFERENT than simply magnifying UI elements of a desktop OS to assist with touch. The entire design and layout of the app is re-thought with touch in mind.
Using desktop apps via touch is not optimal. It's a stop-gap when a touch-optimized app isn't available, but it isn't preferable when wanting to use the tablet as a tablet.
You claim that "apps are a bonus". That is a pretty clear indication that you see the Surface as an ultrabook, that can act like a tablet in a pinch. The lack of touch-optimized Modern UI apps is not a problem in that use case.
There are plenty of feature-rich apps for iOS that rival what desktop apps can do. I'd love to see those available for the Surface.
Sorry everyone, my intention was not to get the zealots riled up but that's clearly what happened. My point in this thread was to give an opinion on the problems with the Surface 3 as a tablet.
Tens of thousands, easily. But how well do those programs work in tablet mode with the touchscreen? Most win32 programs (games notwithstanding) are really legacy software now. And that's kinda the problem; the overwhelming majority of software today is written for mobile and web. (ironically, 2 massive shifts in the software world that microsoft either missed or mistimed, thanks to Ballmer's "leadership") The app-gap issue doesn't really matter when you're using it as a laptop, but in tablet mode it's a pretty major problem. In tablet mode, you're using the touchscreen and doing consumption things rather than productivity things. In that scenario, apps are what you want. Fiddling around with a browser on a touchscreen to watch youtube videos while I'm laying in bed is a terrible experience as compared to using a youtube app on an iPad or Android tablet.
When my iPad finally bit the dust I decided I wanted to go with more of a hybrid device rather than a true tablet, and for me the S3 was the better choice as compared to an iPad Pro. (and despite my complaints about the S3 I still think I made the right choice) But the tablet experience for me on the S3 has been pretty pretty lackluster, and I suspect I'm not alone.
Tens of thousands, easily. But how well do those programs work in tablet mode with the touchscreen? Most win32 programs (games notwithstanding) are really legacy software now. And that's kinda the problem; the overwhelming majority of software today is written for mobile and web. (ironically, 2 massive shifts in the software world that microsoft either missed or mistimed, thanks to Ballmer's "leadership") The app-gap issue doesn't really matter when you're using it as a laptop, but in tablet mode it's a pretty major problem. In tablet mode, you're using the touchscreen and doing consumption things rather than productivity things. In that scenario, apps are what you want. Fiddling around with a browser on a touchscreen to watch youtube videos while I'm laying in bed is a terrible experience as compared to using a youtube app on an iPad or Android tablet.
When my iPad finally bit the dust I decided I wanted to go with more of a hybrid device rather than a true tablet, and for me the S3 was the better choice as compared to an iPad Pro. (and despite my complaints about the S3 I still think I made the right choice) But the tablet experience for me on the S3 has been pretty pretty lackluster, and I suspect I'm not alone.
Wow, talk about timing. Paul Thurott has an interesting piece today on some of these exact thoughts we're debating: https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/66831/thinking-ipad-pro-surface-tablet-market
I like reading Paul's stuff even though I often disagree with him. I think he's spot-on with this one, however.
I like reading Paul's stuff even though I often disagree with him. I think he's spot-on with this one, however.
WillysJeepMan
Active member
- Aug 7, 2008
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I often agree with Thurott, but I think he would've been better off not talking about "detachables". It was a distraction from the rest of the article.
He does accurately assess the current situation and where the future may go. I've owned so many mobile/portable devices powered by Microsoft's operating systems over the years and the issue of software has always been the weak-spot. A few of us would issue the clarion call for greater app support, only to be dismissed by the Microsoft faithful who viewed Microsoft and their offerings through rose-colored glasses... only to result in those warnings being ignored and those produces being discontinued.
The only reason it will be different this time around is because the Surface runs desktop apps. So it will languish as a tablet-using-touch-for-input device and become little more than a netbook with a touchscreen.
I understand your points that the Surface touch interface is designed for touch and I accept that the desktop applications are not touch friendly. I am speaking about the "app gap".
Apple and Google do not have an app problem because their operating systems need apps to survive. Microsoft does not. Hence they did not drive apps as hard as the other two. Which leads to what you all see as a "app gap". Let's turn it around for a second or two. Should we complain that the ipad does not run Warcraft? Should I complain that it does not run SPSS or other desktop applications. Look at the ipad pro! No. Cause it was not designed for those.
If the Surface and other tablets where designed as only touch devices like the ipad and androids, believe me there would be no app gap. Or Microsoft et al would have some plan of filling the void and filling it quickly. But they have not. Because it does not matter.
You all that harp on the app gap I believe are comparing the touch only ipad or android to a touch only windows tablet; which does not exist! If Microsoft wanted touch only tablets there would be no desktop interface at all. I bought a 10 inch tablet running Windows 7 4 years ago and used it for 3 years so I am aware that using desktop apps with touch is not ideal, but its not impossible.
The Windows tablets exist to run BOTH desktop and touch apps. The fact that there are less touch apps than desktop apps is well known. My point is that it is not the issue you all make it out to be.
Apple and Google do not have an app problem because their operating systems need apps to survive. Microsoft does not. Hence they did not drive apps as hard as the other two. Which leads to what you all see as a "app gap". Let's turn it around for a second or two. Should we complain that the ipad does not run Warcraft? Should I complain that it does not run SPSS or other desktop applications. Look at the ipad pro! No. Cause it was not designed for those.
If the Surface and other tablets where designed as only touch devices like the ipad and androids, believe me there would be no app gap. Or Microsoft et al would have some plan of filling the void and filling it quickly. But they have not. Because it does not matter.
You all that harp on the app gap I believe are comparing the touch only ipad or android to a touch only windows tablet; which does not exist! If Microsoft wanted touch only tablets there would be no desktop interface at all. I bought a 10 inch tablet running Windows 7 4 years ago and used it for 3 years so I am aware that using desktop apps with touch is not ideal, but its not impossible.
The Windows tablets exist to run BOTH desktop and touch apps. The fact that there are less touch apps than desktop apps is well known. My point is that it is not the issue you all make it out to be.
I would buy one all over again at full price if mine broke. It's actually a fully functional computer with great battery, and no heat. Core m works well in bursts, but the atom x7 has a consistent performance to power ratio. I couldn't be happier with it. Get the 4 GB RAM model, it's worth it.
wshwe
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- Jul 16, 2010
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Agreed. I believe that the Surface 3 hasn't sold as well as the Pro 3 and Pro 4 because people have bad memories of Atom processors from years past. My Surface 3 is sufficiently powerful to handle my work tasks. Intel should really replace the Atom name.
When using the Surface as a tablet I find that using the Pen with the Surface works best.
When using the Surface as a tablet I find that using the Pen with the Surface works best.
Last edited:
WillysJeepMan
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- Aug 7, 2008
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Yep, pretty clear that is your point. I've already addressed that in my previous posts.
If touch-optimized apps were of no importance to Microsoft then why did they define, redefine, and re-redefine the entire Modern UI?
Running a desktop app in touch mode is not optimal. It is a stop-gap but not preferred. If the app gap was as irrelevant as you believe it is (because of the access to desktop apps) then how do you explain why the Surface is not totally killing it in the tablet/notebook consumer space? The Surface devices are price-competitive with Apple's offerings and yet (supposedly) do so much more that there's no comparison. So why hasn't the Surface become THE tablet to own?
My answer: The Surface line are adequate notebooks but sub-par tablets (mostly but not exclusively due to the lack of a quantity of quality touch-optimized Modern UI apps)
(And please provide an answer that does not explain it away by how mindless Apple customers are)
why has the surface not become the tablet to get? Its more than missing apps or how well they work as tablets.
I'll give you an analogy first.
There are many brands of diapers for babies in the world. however when a new parent wants to get diapers for their baby they generally don't call it by the brand a lot of them would send you out, and tell you "go get me some pampers". Since Pampers started the market of baby diapers, everything afterwards got that name in social arenas regardless of what it actually was, because it was easy for parents to look for and relate to other people what they are describing. Similarly whenever people see a Surface or any other tablet they quite often ask whether it is an iPad. For most people the iPad started that market with a bomb, presence and world wide distribution. It became familiar so some people find it very easy to call everything an iPad rather than try to figure out what it is. they all look the same don't they?
So why have windows tablets not broken through?
When someone ask what tablet should I buy, the recommendation is get an iPad. not because the person recommending knows anything really about iPads, but because they think its the right answer to give cause to their mind "what else is there?" That probably never happened to you but it has happened to me more than once. Asus, Lenovo, Toshiba, what are those?
Awareness. People have to be made aware that there are other devices out there that are not ipads.
Price.
Windows. some people hate it.
visibility. there is an Apple store in my country. there are no Microsoft stores,
Apple releases its devices world wide quickly. Microsoft is still releasing the Surface in some places.
Apples apps work and work very well for what they are supposed to do.
Apple has a simple operating system and user interface.
the early bird catches the worm. Since the iPad came first, developers started there first, released a lot of apps got paid very well for them so there really is not much incentive to switch or add MS apps.
The Surface brand is new to the arena and over time will gain mind share as well, but it will take time. however bad news spreads fast and these bugs are not helping.
Another example.
Nokia created a brand called Lumia, no one had ever heard of it. What did Nokia do? manufacture as many Lumias as it could. Release them worldwide in as many colours and features sets as would make financial sense. Have product launches in the middle of Manhattan. Create Visibility.
Adds, apps, Nokia branding. mindshare. people already know that Nokia is a good brand.
sales started slowly then over time grew. before Microsoft bought it. They kept Lumia and the Nokia name. Why? Established mindshare, cause now people have an expectation of Lumia. it was becoming familiar and Microsoft could not afford to lose that.
But some "genius" at MS forgot the strategy and stopped manufacturing large numbers of phones, doing adds and big launches. They lost visibility.
Then they released buggy phones so the brand now is not what it was either. take a look at the MS sales for phones and you see the result.
So there you have it. Surface and Windows tablets will never replace iPad in the minds of users until the tablets win over peoples thoughts in a positive light and make them more visible.
I bought a tablet 4 years ago made by Gigabyte it was a dream, 2 USB ports VGA, Hdmi, 3G, Bluetooth, fullsized sdcard slot, Ethernet port, WiFi. but hardly anyone knew about them. there was no mineshare, no visibility. sales tanked and they are not available any longer.
If you wanted to buy something you have to first know that it exist, then if you are wise you have to know that it will do what you want. People around the world, even in remote parts of Africa, know about the iPad some people even own one. Do you think they even know about a company called Microsoft furthermore a tablet called Surface?
I'll give you an analogy first.
There are many brands of diapers for babies in the world. however when a new parent wants to get diapers for their baby they generally don't call it by the brand a lot of them would send you out, and tell you "go get me some pampers". Since Pampers started the market of baby diapers, everything afterwards got that name in social arenas regardless of what it actually was, because it was easy for parents to look for and relate to other people what they are describing. Similarly whenever people see a Surface or any other tablet they quite often ask whether it is an iPad. For most people the iPad started that market with a bomb, presence and world wide distribution. It became familiar so some people find it very easy to call everything an iPad rather than try to figure out what it is. they all look the same don't they?
So why have windows tablets not broken through?
When someone ask what tablet should I buy, the recommendation is get an iPad. not because the person recommending knows anything really about iPads, but because they think its the right answer to give cause to their mind "what else is there?" That probably never happened to you but it has happened to me more than once. Asus, Lenovo, Toshiba, what are those?
Awareness. People have to be made aware that there are other devices out there that are not ipads.
Price.
Windows. some people hate it.
visibility. there is an Apple store in my country. there are no Microsoft stores,
Apple releases its devices world wide quickly. Microsoft is still releasing the Surface in some places.
Apples apps work and work very well for what they are supposed to do.
Apple has a simple operating system and user interface.
the early bird catches the worm. Since the iPad came first, developers started there first, released a lot of apps got paid very well for them so there really is not much incentive to switch or add MS apps.
The Surface brand is new to the arena and over time will gain mind share as well, but it will take time. however bad news spreads fast and these bugs are not helping.
Another example.
Nokia created a brand called Lumia, no one had ever heard of it. What did Nokia do? manufacture as many Lumias as it could. Release them worldwide in as many colours and features sets as would make financial sense. Have product launches in the middle of Manhattan. Create Visibility.
Adds, apps, Nokia branding. mindshare. people already know that Nokia is a good brand.
sales started slowly then over time grew. before Microsoft bought it. They kept Lumia and the Nokia name. Why? Established mindshare, cause now people have an expectation of Lumia. it was becoming familiar and Microsoft could not afford to lose that.
But some "genius" at MS forgot the strategy and stopped manufacturing large numbers of phones, doing adds and big launches. They lost visibility.
Then they released buggy phones so the brand now is not what it was either. take a look at the MS sales for phones and you see the result.
So there you have it. Surface and Windows tablets will never replace iPad in the minds of users until the tablets win over peoples thoughts in a positive light and make them more visible.
I bought a tablet 4 years ago made by Gigabyte it was a dream, 2 USB ports VGA, Hdmi, 3G, Bluetooth, fullsized sdcard slot, Ethernet port, WiFi. but hardly anyone knew about them. there was no mineshare, no visibility. sales tanked and they are not available any longer.
If you wanted to buy something you have to first know that it exist, then if you are wise you have to know that it will do what you want. People around the world, even in remote parts of Africa, know about the iPad some people even own one. Do you think they even know about a company called Microsoft furthermore a tablet called Surface?
I wanted to add something else along the mindshare and perception line.
As I was saying you have to create visibility, get people talking in a positive light. Two of the things Apple did that come to mind is their "Space ship" campus. Some people who didn't own ipads or know any about Surface, know about the spaceship campus because it was on the regular news, it was talked about. How large it is, how beautiful it is, how revolutionary it is. So the news presenter will mention who is building it and what they do. The ipad, macs, and the iPhone maybe even with pictures would come up in the discussion. Creating mindshare and visibility, people talking.
They also have stores all over the place while as you know Microsoft is now building/opening theirs. So they have presence.
Microsoft has also been in the news:
- layoffs
- sending Stephen to Nokia, Nokia declines, Microsoft buys the phone part of Nokia, closes it down (effectively)
While its true or not, its the perception that counts. Mindshare
- buggy products
- store/office/manufacturing closures
- Windows 8
- Windows 10 in its entirety (I had to drop on of my friends back to windows 8.1 yesterday due to incompatibility with a brand new HP printer, for instance. A few months back I dropped back another because youtube videos would not play).
Negative mindshare. i.e. People don't want your stuff, because they don't see you in a positive light.
In the old days (90s), there was a great company called IBM. Nearly every manufacturer of PCs and software saw that IBM was the first to market and had the mindshare of the public. So what to do in order to get sales. They started printing something on their hardware and software "IBM Compatible". It was a sticker that told the public that if they buy this item which is not made by IBM, it would still work like if it was. They had to convince people that they were just as good in order to steal mindshare and presence from IBM. Over time it worked because IBM was too big as a company and so they were slow to maneuver. As a result other manufacturers gained market share from them, built reliable computers and the rest is history. There are no PCs or software being released with "IBM compatible" on them any longer.
Microsoft is trying the same strategy. Build a tablet like the ipad with touch and build apps.
The problem is that they did not have the apps, presense or mindshare or brand to go with it at the time.
They are getting better though. Surface brand is increasingly recognised and they have increased presence with football teams, airlines etc. So over time they will become like Apple in mindshare. But it's not there yet.
They also need to do product launches somewhere other then the Build conference. Which is attended by Microsoft developers and tech press. In other words, they are preaching to the choir. People who already know all about Microsoft and do not need convinving to switch from Apple, Samsung or any of the other manufacturers. They have already made their decisions and most likely in Microsoft's favour.
To get the Surface and their other products into the minds of people they need a change of strategy. The current one will get them no where in my opinion. At least not in any hurry, and only if the other competitors sit still. Like IBM.
As I was saying you have to create visibility, get people talking in a positive light. Two of the things Apple did that come to mind is their "Space ship" campus. Some people who didn't own ipads or know any about Surface, know about the spaceship campus because it was on the regular news, it was talked about. How large it is, how beautiful it is, how revolutionary it is. So the news presenter will mention who is building it and what they do. The ipad, macs, and the iPhone maybe even with pictures would come up in the discussion. Creating mindshare and visibility, people talking.
They also have stores all over the place while as you know Microsoft is now building/opening theirs. So they have presence.
Microsoft has also been in the news:
- layoffs
- sending Stephen to Nokia, Nokia declines, Microsoft buys the phone part of Nokia, closes it down (effectively)
While its true or not, its the perception that counts. Mindshare
- buggy products
- store/office/manufacturing closures
- Windows 8
- Windows 10 in its entirety (I had to drop on of my friends back to windows 8.1 yesterday due to incompatibility with a brand new HP printer, for instance. A few months back I dropped back another because youtube videos would not play).
Negative mindshare. i.e. People don't want your stuff, because they don't see you in a positive light.
In the old days (90s), there was a great company called IBM. Nearly every manufacturer of PCs and software saw that IBM was the first to market and had the mindshare of the public. So what to do in order to get sales. They started printing something on their hardware and software "IBM Compatible". It was a sticker that told the public that if they buy this item which is not made by IBM, it would still work like if it was. They had to convince people that they were just as good in order to steal mindshare and presence from IBM. Over time it worked because IBM was too big as a company and so they were slow to maneuver. As a result other manufacturers gained market share from them, built reliable computers and the rest is history. There are no PCs or software being released with "IBM compatible" on them any longer.
Microsoft is trying the same strategy. Build a tablet like the ipad with touch and build apps.
The problem is that they did not have the apps, presense or mindshare or brand to go with it at the time.
They are getting better though. Surface brand is increasingly recognised and they have increased presence with football teams, airlines etc. So over time they will become like Apple in mindshare. But it's not there yet.
They also need to do product launches somewhere other then the Build conference. Which is attended by Microsoft developers and tech press. In other words, they are preaching to the choir. People who already know all about Microsoft and do not need convinving to switch from Apple, Samsung or any of the other manufacturers. They have already made their decisions and most likely in Microsoft's favour.
To get the Surface and their other products into the minds of people they need a change of strategy. The current one will get them no where in my opinion. At least not in any hurry, and only if the other competitors sit still. Like IBM.
Last edited:
ananve
Member
- May 22, 2016
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- 16
Nice posts guys. I can only think day that Microsoft had different strategy to Apple. Apple do everything on it's own, hardware and software. MS work with OEMs. MS tried to be Apple worth the purchase of Nokia and everyone knows how that pretending to be someone else is not good. May be MS will fail forever but I don't think they should emulate apple. Copying doesn't mean success.
Posted from Lumia 640 W10M.
Posted from Lumia 640 W10M.
Ludi Woodhouse
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- Jun 8, 2016
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I would actually like to see Microsoft take on Apple when they release a Surface 4. My impression is that the Surface 3 was designed as a more affordable Surface pro rather than an iPad competitor. Disclaimer: I'm a bit of an Apple ******, but have been very impressed with Microsoft's recent innovation with devices like the Surface Book. I bought a Surface 3 on a sale recently to see how I'll get on with Windows 10 and test the surface line before abandoning the apple ecosystem. If Microsoft wants to make headway in the tablet market, they have to win over folks like me.
My Surface 3 experience so far have been a mixed bag: I'll definitely not buy the new iPad pro now, simply because it will never be a laptop replacement while running a mobile OS, no matter what they cram in under the hood. Being able to run full Windows 10 on a 10inch tablet with a great kickstand/keyboard solution to perform productivity tasks is amazing. I can download citation software for research work, browser plugins, etc. Never on an iPad. But the Surface 3 (I got the baseline model - don't bother!) does come with sacrifices - yes, lack of apps and yes, it does matter. For instance, I had to reach for my old iPad on a recent journey to use the Amazon Video app that allows downloading and watching content offline - something desktop programmes can not do. Some apps, like Flipboard, run painfully slow even when not multitasking, which is annoying. Battery life is poor in comparison to an iPad.
So my hope is that Microsoft will aim the Surface 4 squarely at the 10 inch tablet market and give it a bit more processing power. At its size it will never really be a pc replacement but something that caters for folks who like something nice and small for sofa surfing, but capable enough to throw in a backpack knowing you can leave your laptop behind when on the go. I hope they ditch atom and go for the more expensive Core M chips. A 128GB iPad with accessories will still cost almost ?200 more than a full price Surface 3 with pen and keyboard, so i recon Microsoft still has some scope to really make the next non-pro just a smaller pro rather than a cheaper compromise. I'll buy it!
My Surface 3 experience so far have been a mixed bag: I'll definitely not buy the new iPad pro now, simply because it will never be a laptop replacement while running a mobile OS, no matter what they cram in under the hood. Being able to run full Windows 10 on a 10inch tablet with a great kickstand/keyboard solution to perform productivity tasks is amazing. I can download citation software for research work, browser plugins, etc. Never on an iPad. But the Surface 3 (I got the baseline model - don't bother!) does come with sacrifices - yes, lack of apps and yes, it does matter. For instance, I had to reach for my old iPad on a recent journey to use the Amazon Video app that allows downloading and watching content offline - something desktop programmes can not do. Some apps, like Flipboard, run painfully slow even when not multitasking, which is annoying. Battery life is poor in comparison to an iPad.
So my hope is that Microsoft will aim the Surface 4 squarely at the 10 inch tablet market and give it a bit more processing power. At its size it will never really be a pc replacement but something that caters for folks who like something nice and small for sofa surfing, but capable enough to throw in a backpack knowing you can leave your laptop behind when on the go. I hope they ditch atom and go for the more expensive Core M chips. A 128GB iPad with accessories will still cost almost ?200 more than a full price Surface 3 with pen and keyboard, so i recon Microsoft still has some scope to really make the next non-pro just a smaller pro rather than a cheaper compromise. I'll buy it!
I don't mind the Atom at all actually. What they need to ditch is the emmc storage as that is the biggest drain on its performance. If they add a core m processor the price will be just about the same as a surface pro.
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