Legacy PHones no Apollo Update, will get 7.8 update

[jdevenberg]

WP8 won't be out until the Fall (at the earliest). WP7.5 apps will run on WP8. There's no reason why developers would stop developing apps for WP7.5 now since they will all continue to run on WP8 devices. Once WP8 officially launches, developers may stop developing for WP7.5 but until then, I don't expect to see a slowdown of new WP7.5 apps hitting the marketplace.

For people, like me, who have a 2 month old phone, hearing we will continue to get new apps for the next 4 months isn't exactly comforting. That leaves me with 18 months of my contract where my phone will be out dated and not receiving new apps. That is 3/4 of my contract. Now if these numbers were reversed, I'd be okay with it. If I had an 18 month old phone that wouldn't get support for the last 6 months of contract, no biggie. But this is ridiculous.

 

[aubreyq]

...Since WP8 handsets will be able to run WP7 apps, we could end up in a situation where developers will code WP7 apps in order to appeal to the entire market.

Unfortunately "the entire market" isn't very big

...Basically it comes down to this: The advantage of writing a WP7 app is that all Windows Phones will be able to use it (except maybe the Lumia 610.)

However, the advantage to writing a WP8 app is that it will work on Windows 8 tablets and PCs (a much larger audience.)

It doesn't look great for the future of WP7 apps....

Exactly.

 

[infamousdaveman]

I agree with many who say this is blown completely out of proportion. So if there is an app that uses NFC, we cannot download onto our wp 7.5 device because we dont have NFC. Sounds pretty cut and dry. However a banking app like CHase will most likely be coded for every device since is does not require any of the new features. This is for developers and basically its telling developers "If you want to make an app for everyone, including older devices, code it this way." If you want to develop an app with NFC or some of the other new features, just know they will not work on previous windows phone versions." Its not that big of a deal IMO, we will get the best of what WP8 has to offer to match the hardware we currently own.

All of those claiming "im jumping back to apple" can go ahead and do so but if you love WP, why would you drop major coinage on an iphone 5 when you can simple buy an apollo device instead?? Your arguments are ridiculous and nonsensical. If you are willing to buy a brand new device anyways, why would you go back to an outdated UI that will be completley rechanged and re-engineered and most likley not even compatible with ios 7??? There are risks to every purchase as android users are fully aware of. I really enjoy my device as it is so I cant wait for some new changes and when my upgrade is due, Im gonna have the most killer wp8 device around!! Still lightyears ahead of what android and apple offer and Im suprised so many are willing to just dismiss what MS is achieving...but hey, good luck with whatever ecosystem you buy into. As the tides change in MS's favor, be prepared to deal with the same when android and apple overhaul their OS's to compete!!!

 

[doublebullout]

I'll be watching eBay for discounted 900s, for sure.

 

[jdevenberg]

Maybe I'm just too much of an optimist.

But if I see developers leaving WP7 in droves, and a user base that is stuck on contract, then I see an opportunity to differentiate myself with less competition.

Heck. Anyone that has decided to develop on WP7 up to this point was partially doing so because there is less competition.

It may "suck" for consumers if some of the big developers ignore them, and some new game comes out that isn't available on WP7. But I believe that when you buy a device, you buy it for what it is, not what you hope it will be later. Well, unless you're a tech geek like many of us.

I bought my Lumia 900 because I saw it as a great piece of hardware on a rapidly growing platform that major developers were finally starting to take notice of. Now that, the things I bought it for, have been taken away by MS. I'm now the owner of a great piece of hardware on a soon-to-be legacy platform and major developers will be developing for its successor. So the reason I bought the phone has been taken away and I am, I feel rightfully, upset.

 

[trickym81]

I got my Lumia 710 in February. By February 2013, it will essentially be dead. That's not terrible for a smart phone in today's market, but it's not great either.

The problem is that, while I generally really like my phone, there are a few issues that I would like to see fixed and if they're not fixed in WP7.8, they'll never be fixed. The app situation is just sad as well. I talked my wife into getting this same phone a few months ago. She won't be too happy to hear that after October or so, no more apps will be developed for it.

 

[simonnyc]

For people, like me, who have a 2 month old phone, hearing we will continue to get new apps for the next 4 months isn't exactly comforting. That leaves me with 18 months of my contract where my phone will be out dated and not receiving new apps. That is 3/4 of my contract. Now if these numbers were reversed, I'd be okay with it. If I had an 18 month old phone that wouldn't get support for the last 6 months of contract, no biggie. But this is ridiculous.

That's fair but at the same time, I don't think it should be a complete surprise. There are currently apps in the marketplace that won't run on certain devices b/c of hardware limitations (256mb vs 512mb). I was kinda expecting the same thing once WP8 launches. With more powerful hardware, app developers will most likely use it to their advantage. I really can't imagine that Microsoft would leave their key WP partner Nokia out in the cold when it comes to new apps. I'm guessing they will come out with a SDK that might help developers take their WP8 apps and recode them to work with WP7.8 devices.

There's still a lot of time until WP8 launches so let's hope microsoft listens to their users and delivers for us.

 

[trickym81]

I bought my Lumia 900 because I saw it as a great piece of hardware on a rapidly growing platform that major developers were finally starting to take notice of. Now that, the things I bought it for, have been taken away by MS. I'm now the owner of a great piece of hardware on a soon-to-be legacy platform and major developers will be developing for its successor. So the reason I bought the phone has been taken away and I am, I feel rightfully, upset.

Agreed.

 

[pwaikon]

Boo!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not happy about this. My Lumia 800 is 4 months old and when I bought it from my carrier with two year contract, I was in the impression that of course it will get the latest sw updates and versions!

I'm the kinda of nerdy geek that loves to have the latest updates and latest tech when possible so knowing that I own a new 4 months old Nokia Lumia 800 that as of today, has a old operating system hurts me. Really it does. I know now that I cannot make myself settle to have Lumia 800 with only WP 7.8 when back in my head I know that there's WP 8 models available. I may sound picky and vain but I'm a geek, I'm possessed by a power that controls every techie purchase I made. So I'm gonna say bye bye to my baby Lumia 800 as soon as Nokia brings it's first Lumia WP 8 models on sale.

As much as these news hurt me, I gotta feeling that Nokia is gonna hurt more, 'cos anyone who wants to have WP 8 in the future is not gonna purchase Nokia's Lumia phones now. Ouch.

 

[Reflexx]

A budget device has a different meaning depending on your region, especially if you consider subsidized phones. For example, the Samsung Focus 2 has LTE and it sells for $49 subsidized, if I'm not mistaken. To me that is a budget device, but I'm pretty sure you mean unsubsidized price.

Frankly I think Microsoft can't wait to close the chapter on WP7. I mean, the potential of the kernel used in WP8 is incredible and developers will embrace it big time. Why keep cranking WP7 phones that won't take WP8 apps?

Perhaps WP7 handsets will be cheaper to make?

When I think of WP7 going budget, I'm thinking that devices like the Nokia 610, which already has an unsubsidized price of $225. I imagine it will be even cheaper by then end of the year. Perhaps under $200.

Then a year after that, we'll see 512 mb WP7 devices getting to that price point. And the 256 mb devices might go under $150.

All while having a UI that looks exactly like high end devices, and has a very smooth and brisk navigating experience.

I personally think that the emerging markets are gold. Sure, you'll need to sell really cheap apps. But dang, there are so many potential customers there.

 

[trickym81]

I agree with many who say this is blown completely out of proportion. So if there is an app that uses NFC, we cannot download onto our wp 7.5 device because we dont have NFC. Sounds pretty cut and dry. However a banking app like CHase will most likely be coded for every device since is does not require any of the new features. This is for developers and basically its telling developers "If you want to make an app for everyone, including older devices, code it this way." If you want to develop an app with NFC or some of the other new features, just know they will not work on previous windows phone versions." Its not that big of a deal IMO, we will get the best of what WP8 has to offer to match the hardware we currently own.

The only issue with this statement is that people who develop for WP8 won't just get their apps on WP8 phones, but on Windows 8 tablets and PCs as well. This is potentially a HUGE advantage to writing a WP8 app over a WP7 one.

It's great for MS and anyone with a WP8/W8 device, but not so great for WP7 users.

 

[jdevenberg]

That's fair but at the same time, I don't think it should be a complete surprise. There are currently apps in the marketplace that won't run on certain devices b/c of hardware limitations (256mb vs 512mb). I was kinda expecting the same thing once WP8 launches. With more powerful hardware, app developers will most likely use it to their advantage. I really can't imagine that Microsoft would leave their key WP partner Nokia out in the cold when it comes to new apps. I'm guessing they will come out with a SDK that might help developers take their WP8 apps and recode them to work with WP7.8 devices.

There's still a lot of time until WP8 launches so let's hope microsoft listens to their users and delivers for us.

If it were similar to the 256 vs. 512 situation I would be okay with it. Most apps will run on 256, just a few won't. With 7 vs. 8, WP7 is being COMPLETELY cut off. Plus when you buy a low end phone, your expectations are different than when you buy a flagship device.

 

[trickym81]

I'm the kinda of nerdy geek that loves to have the latest updates and latest tech when possible so knowing that I own a new 4 months old Nokia Lumia 800 that as of today, has a old operating system hurts me. Really it does. I know now that I cannot make myself settle to have Lumia 800 with only WP 7.8 when back in my head I know that there's WP 8 models available. I may sound picky and vain but I'm a geek, I'm possessed by a power that controls every techie purchase I made.

Not to be insulting, but if you're a geek who always wants the newest thing, wouldn't you be buying a new phone soon anyway? Even ignoring the upgrade to WP8, you'd have to assume that your Lumia 900 wouldn't be the "latest tech" in two years....

 

[mprice86]

Here's the thing with the apps argument though, starting off, there will be a limited number of 8.0 devices that can make use of any 8.0 only apps. And, with 7.5+ apps being forwards compatible, it will continue to make perfect sense to develop applications that work for both generations.

Not every single WP8 app will need NFC or Dual-Core, so it does and will continue to make perfect sense for developers to develop those applications for 7.8, thus catering to the entire audience thanks to their forwards compatibility.

Sure, for fancy apps that will need NFC or other new hardware that current devices don't have, there will be no alternative for developers to release only for 8.0 or put a cut down version out for 7.8 as well. But if something requires that new hardware, and you don't have that hardware, why would you want it anyway?

I'm also willing to bet that this update is 7.8 because Microsoft will apply their 18 months of software support to all phones, thus allowing room for the most recent 7.5 devices to receive a further update in future.

 

[Seketh]

As someone already mentioned, we will not maintain kernel compatibility. This alone makes this announcement very disheartening. There will definitely be apps we want but we won't be able to use. Our devices have just had their values relegated to pennies.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

Applications and games created for WinRT are easily ported to .NET in Windows Phone 7. In fact, WinRT and .NET are connected.

Devs will have to create a version for WP8 and a version for WP7.8, but this is so easy to do, and considering that the existing user base is the primary source of revenue for them, they would be crazy no to do so.

The only apps and games that you won't have in the Lumia 900 are those that need native code, and they would probably not run on the Lumia 900 anyway, due to the weaker hardware. Anyway, it's an acceptable loss, it's a different kernel, it's an extra feature, and not a basic, essential feature.

The 7.8 is the update everyone was expecting. The only problem here is that Microsoft didn't name it Windows Phone 8, like Apple does with their iOS versions.

Don't worry, you're blowing this way out of proportion.

 

[dameon_03]

I'm glad I did not upgrade although was tempted by the Nokia 900. I will wait now and see what new hardware is on offer for WP8. Its a bit disappointing that current gen phones will not be upgradable to Wp8 but atleast get some features with Wp7.8.Atleast I'm happy I don't own an Android - still on 7.1% of devices have Android ICS 4.0 lol

same here. im interested in seeing what phones will be made for wp8 especially nokia

 

[Reflexx]

jdevenberg, you've been on these forums for a while. You knew that there was a decent change that current devices might not get Apollo.

Though I imagine if I just bought a phone on contract two months ago, I might also be upset. But I'd probably be more upset at myself for being impatient because I chose to take a risk.

Then again, I like my current phone software experience. So it may be difficult for me to relate.

 

[tk-093]

There are a lot of things that could go down...

(1) WP7 market share is small, but that still is millions of phones. Why would a developer create an app that only works in WP8 when there are zero of those devices at launch, and will probably take a long time to get up there in count. That leaves out a huge chunk of users. Existing Windows Phone developers would be stupid to ignore those users. They will continue to create apps that work on 7.5, WP8 and 8RT. It's easy peasy. Apps that are already in the Marketplace (100,000+) will still probably be cared and fed for... probably for a while.

(2) Developers that have never developed for WP before, that's the wild card, they might just go the native code route because they don't want to learn how to code in the WP7.x environment (to be honest, I'm not a developer so I don't know how much of a learning curve that is...) So if the app isn't in the Market now, maybe the 7.5 folks won't see it.

(3) Things that REQUIRE native code obvioulsy old devices will not get, but even if those old single core devices did get WP8, a lot of those apps would potentially not run very well and right off the bat we would have developers coding to the lowest common denominator, or you'd have apps that ran like crap on old devices.

 

[infamousdaveman]

The only issue with this statement is that people who develop for WP8 won't just get their apps on WP8 phones, but on Windows 8 tablets and PCs as well. This is potentially a HUGE advantage to writing a WP8 app over a WP7 one.

It's great for MS and anyone with a WP8/W8 device, but not so great for WP7 users.

Very true but werent they also addressing how much easier its going to be to port apps from other os's and wp7.5/7.8 to wp8/w8?? If that is correct, wouldnt they simply create an app in 7.8 and then port it to wp8/w8?

 

[Reflexx]

I'll be watching eBay for discounted 900s, for sure.

Me too!