Legacy PHones no Apollo Update, will get 7.8 update

[undisputed n00b]

WP7.8 = WP8 - obvious hardware features that current WP7 devices dont have.

 

[pwaikon]

Not to be insulting, but if you're a geek who always wants the newest thing, wouldn't you be buying a new phone soon anyway? Even ignoring the upgrade to WP8, you'd have to assume that your Lumia 900 wouldn't be the "latest tech" in two years....

In recent years, I have purchased my mobile phones via carrier and when I do, I commit myself to that particular phone for those 24 months. Then to me, hardware specs are not as important as software -> I can live with a mobile phone for 24 months or more if the software gets all the updates along the way (naturally the hardware gets old during that time period). so, I'm all in with a new tech but I'm also a happy techie with a old hw IF I can have the newest sw (sadly, money is a factor also...) So this is why Nokia Lumia 800 with "old" WP 7.8 is a no no for me.

I hope I answered your question, I'm not sure I understood it completely...

 

[naplesbill]

My .02 - WP7.8 will be WP8 Lite. The same apps will run on both with the exception of a few WP8 only. Your single-core 512MB device will run much better with 7.8 than it ever would have with 8. RIM and Apple both upgraded the software on devices beyond there processing capability. it sucked. I downgraded back when possible. Apple actually made downgrading impossible, that really sucked.

Except it won't. Microsoft has already stated the WP7 devices will only run WP7 apps. There doesn't seem to be any room for discussion on this.

 

[trumpet116]

So Disappointed

Well, good job Microsoft. You ruined it.
Let's start with 7.8:
-No new app support. It sucks, and there's no way around it.
-Terrible, terrible marketing strategy. Why wouldn't they just call it Windows Phone 8 and tell you all you're not getting is new hardware features? Allowing the media to say "No WP8 for any current WP device" basically stops any sales of all Windows Phones until the fall, screwing Nokia and themselves.

What about the new start screen?
I hate it. Every picture I've seen looks absolutely horrible. What happened to uncluttered, simplistic, Metro? To me, it looks like two columns of elementarily-large boxes that will look absolutely horrific on anything larger than 3.x inches. Also, with only a relatively low resolution and a relatively high resolution, there's only room for a very high end and a rather low end...What about mid-range (qHD)-type devices?
FINALLY, Nokia no longer has any advantage. HTC makes better phones anyway (see: One X - equal in beauty, creams the 900 in screen quality, specs, camera, thinness) and now they even have Nokia Drive. Nokia also gained a bad reputation for updates among Americans who now know Nokia as "that company that made that pretty phone which the sales rep told me will never be upgraded." Honestly, maybe Nokia would have been better off picking Android. It would be a big loss for us, the Windows Phone community, but at least they wouldn't be screwed by Microsoft's perpetual stupidity.

I guess my only two questions are:
A) Why does Microsoft suck so much at marketing?
B) How long until Nokia goes under? Less than a year?

I'd like to add that I absolutely love Windows Phone Mango, Nokia's design, and them as a company. I'm just really annoyed at how stupid Microsoft can be.

 

[undisputed n00b]

Didnt Joe Belfiore say WP8 apps will run on WP7.8 devices?

 

[naplesbill]

WP7.8 = WP8 - obvious hardware features that current WP7 devices dont have.

And minus any new apps designed for WP8, whether they require the new hardware or not!

 

[Reflexx]

What I don't get, because I'm not a developer, is how much effort is it to take a Windows 8 or WP8 app and get it to run on WP7?

Depends on the app and the quality of the developer.

If it's something that can be made to run on WP7.8, then any decent developer will not make use of APIs that are only available on WP8. Well, unless they're lazy.

So assuming that they programmed their app correctly, the conversion process isn't very complex at all. Some apps may be able to be ported in an afternoon.

 

[Reflexx]

Didnt Joe Belfiore say WP8 apps will run on WP7.8 devices?

Can you really trust someone with that hair?

 

[trickym81]

The app situation is the only thing that will be a problem here. However, it's a potentially huge problem.

 

[canesfan625]

Didnt Joe Belfiore say WP8 apps will run on WP7.8 devices?

No. Microsoft confirmed there is no backwards compatibility if the app uses an 8 API

 

[trickym81]

I don't mind not getting ALL the new apps. Anyone buying any piece of technology should assume that some applications will eventually be too complex for the hardware that they own. My issue would be with a situation where NO new apps are developed for WP7.

Like if, say Instagram for example, came to WP8 and it didn't work on WP7. Or Angry Birds Space. Those apps work on current hardware, so I'd expect them on my current hardware. I wouldn't expect a complicated new game that comes out in January to work, because it requires new hardware. But all basic apps should still work. I'm worried that we'll be faced with a situation where not a single WP7 app is released from this point on.

 

[canesfan625]

I don't mind not getting ALL the new apps. Anyone buying any piece of technology should assume that some applications will eventually be too complex for the hardware that they own. My issue would be with a situation where NO new apps are developed for WP7.

Like if, say Instagram for example, came to WP8 and it didn't work on WP7. Or Angry Birds Space. Those apps work on current hardware, so I'd expect them on my current hardware. I wouldn't expect a complicated new game that comes out in January to work, because it requires new hardware. But all basic apps should still work. I'm worried that we'll be faced with a situation where not a single WP7 app is released from this point on.

Games will be the grey area. I would imagine that there will still be things developed for 7 since that will still be the majority but since 8 has native code/Direct X games will not hang around long on 7. I still don't see a reason why there wouldnt be new apps for 7 at all though.

 

[cammsaul]

wp7 apps aren't dead

As a professional multi-platform mobile developer (iPhone/iPad/Android/WP) I can tell you after attending the summit today I have no plans to suddenly just "drop" support for my existing WP7 apps. Even though iOS 5 has been out for almost a year, we still target iOS 4 since 7 or 8 percent of our users are still on it (even for new projects). And Android's a mess, we still target 2.1 since it's still 20% of the market...

So just because a new version is announced doesn't mean every new app will only target that version. As long as WP7 market share is even a significant fraction of WP8's, it makes more sense to write an app that both platforms support. Remember that apps are going to get compiled down to native code for WP8 in the cloud, so I can write a WP7 and still get the performance benefits on newer phones.

As long as you're writing apps in C#, the main difference from what I gathered is the change from Silverlight XAML to Win8-style XAML for the UI (which is really a tiny difference). If developers want to write a WP8 app, they can still use the majority of the codebase to make a WP7 app. This is what I do with iPhone/iPad apps -- 90% of the code is the shared (the back-end); the UI code differs between the two.

 

[trickym81]

Games will be the grey area. I would imagine that there will still be things developed for 7 since that will still be the majority but since 8 has native code/Direct X games will not hang around long on 7. I still don't see a reason why there wouldnt be new apps for 7 at all though.

Games are less of an issue for me, since I don't really play very many games on my phone. But they could potentially be a big issue for others. Hopefully we'll find out more soon when we know exactly what WP8 & WP7.8 actually include.

 

[sentimentGX4]

But the positive side would be that we'll likely see ROMs coming out if we want to risk upgrading on our own.

No, we won't see any custom ROMs. The bootloader to WPs are iron clad. There are currently only 3 existing WPs with unlocked bootloaders.

The Lumia 710 randomly shipped with an unlock bootloader; but, this is a very small portion of existing 710 owners. The two other phones are the Titan 1 and Radar. Rigorous work had to be done to unlock these devices. It took many months and it is unlikely any other bootloaders for other devices will be unlocked.

These will likely be the ONLY WPs to be able to download custom ROMs. That's a very small portion of WP7.5 phones out there.

 

[jdevenberg]

As a professional multi-platform mobile developer (iPhone/iPad/Android/WP) I can tell you after attending the summit today I have no plans to suddenly just "drop" support for my existing WP7 apps. Even though iOS 5 has been out for almost a year, we still target iOS 4 since 7 or 8 percent of our users are still on it (even for new projects). And Android's a mess, we still target 2.1 since it's still 20% of the market...

So just because a new version is announced doesn't mean every new app will only target that version. As long as WP7 market share is even a significant fraction of WP8's, it makes more sense to write an app that both platforms support. Remember that apps are going to get compiled down to native code for WP8 in the cloud, so I can write a WP7 and still get the performance benefits on newer phones.

As long as you're writing apps in C#, the main difference from what I gathered is the change from Silverlight XAML to Win8-style XAML for the UI (which is really a tiny difference). If developers want to write a WP8 app, they can still use the majority of the codebase to make a WP7 app. This is what I do with iPhone/iPad apps -- 90% of the code is the shared (the back-end); the UI code differs between the two.

This is good to here. I hope most developers have your attitude about it.

 

[littlesteelo16]

I know people are saying that the only apps which will not work with 7.8 are the ones which use native code, but for me that is a big thing. I like to have the latest games on my phone, and whilst developers may start off making games for both versions, eventually they won't bother anymore, and we will be left with the existing library of apps forever.

I am also seriously starting to doubt whether WP has any future. They are failing to get any traction in the market. iOS and Android are just too well known and popular for a 3rd platform. It won't die, but whether it will grow is another question. Everybody was raving about how mango would be the breakthrough WP need, but it wasn't. As much as I love Windows Phone, my next device will not be running WP8. Honestly, it was a pretty pathetic update to say it is supposed to be a major software revision.

I really do believe I jumped ship from iOS too soon. I think I am going to sit out for a year, and if the software matures enough by the next major batch of devices after 8, and if the ecosystem has developed enough, I will think about coming back.

 

[Seketh]

The app situation is the only thing that will be a problem here. However, it's a potentially huge problem.

From the other "sister" topic, from user Cammsaul (http://forums.windowscentral.com/1674262-post47.htm):

As a professional multi-platform mobile developer (iPhone/iPad/Android/WP) I can tell you after attending the summit today I have no plans to suddenly just "drop" support for my existing WP7 apps. Even though iOS 5 has been out for almost a year, we still target iOS 4 since 7 or 8 percent of our users are still on it (even for new projects). And Android's a mess, we still target 2.1 since it's still 20% of the market...

So just because a new version is announced doesn't mean every new app will only target that version. As long as WP7 market share is even a significant fraction of WP8's, it makes more sense to write an app that both platforms support. Remember that apps are going to get compiled down to native code for WP8 in the cloud, so I can write a WP7 and still get the performance benefits on newer phones.

As long as you're writing apps in C#, the main difference from what I gathered is the change from Silverlight XAML to Win8-style XAML for the UI (which is really a tiny difference). If developers want to write a WP8 app, they can still use the majority of the codebase to make a WP7 app. This is what I do with iPhone/iPad apps -- 90% of the code is the shared (the back-end); the UI code differs between the two.

 

[bigkevbosky]

What about the new start screen?
I hate it. Every picture I've seen looks absolutely horrible. What happened to uncluttered, simplistic, Metro? To me, it looks like two columns of elementarily-large boxes that will look absolutely horrific on anything larger than 3.x inches.

Wait, what? You can make the new start screen look EXACTLY like your current start screen, minus the "gutter". So you DO like the current start screen but you wouldn't like the same thing minus the "gutter" and the arrow? I'm confused by your statement, because it sounds like you hate the look as-is.

They've just given you options. You want clutter, you get clutter. You want clean, you get clean.

 

[rdubmu]

I'm seriously laughing at the people in this thread complaining about this. Did you magically expect your phone to have an NFC chip and a higher resolution?

The only thing I don't like is that the phone won't have access to windows phone 8 apps...shoot the iphone 3gs will have ios 6. It won't have any new features that came out for the iphone 4, 4s or the new iphone (iphone 5) but the 3gs has access to the app store.

This is a big mistake on Microsoft part.