Legacy PHones no Apollo Update, will get 7.8 update

[cckgz4]

You are aware that while they will be getting iOS 6, they are not getting all of the features and already more and more apps are no longer being supported by older devices? For instance iPhone 4 will not be getting Maps or other features including Siri. The original iPad is not getting any of iOS 6. What can their argument possibly be? None, other than they want to force people into buying newer devices. It's not the technology as a lot of the iPad is actually on the iPhone 4. iPad 2 will not getting be Siri, but the iPad 3 will be getting Siri.

All of the "closed" systems are doing this, about the only mobile OS where you can sort of with hacking tools, that will allow you to install a different OS will be Android. Granted I am not a super Android fan and I prefer the experience in WPx, but different evolutions of Android can for the most part be installed on older devices, they may not be official ROMs but they will work. We cannot do that with: iOS, BB, Symbian, WebOs and even our fave WP.

More and more I am seeing that these tech companies are making these devices disposable, but at a very high price. We gladly dish out our money, whine and complain on forums much like these, hoping to find a sympathetic ear. First world problems are a b1tch.

Thank you for clearing up this iOS 6 forever backwards compatability stuff people were making a stance on. I haven't studied it to say anything with confidence, but those statements were what I heard

 

[sdreamer]

There's a lot going on with what has happened today, and a lot of it has to do with how prideful a Windows Phone 7 user used to be. Now they're the laughing stock of the town, and that's what hurts me the most I think. I'm not really hurt about the Lumia 900 not getting the update personally (Nokia gave me $80 anyways to have this phone), but what hurts is how these companies toy with the mentality of the customer. The Lumia 900 has been out just over 2 months, and 7 months later it will be replaced by another handset from Nokia sporting WP8. You can't tell me that Nokia didn't know about the next WP version, because from how they designed these phones it sounds like they need at least a year or R&D, testing and prepping a launch for it, now it feels like this so called partnership of MSFT and Nokia with AT&T played early adopters of the Lumia 900 for their money, and nothing else but that; they release the details today, just over two months over release, no first adopters of this new handset have the ability to go back and return it now, and are stuck with it for the next 18 months or so unless AT&T does some special deal for them like they did with the iPhone. Again, it's that timing that I think is getting the better of most of us. If the Lumia 900 was released maybe earlier, like end of 2011, I think this would be easier to stomach, but it's less than 3 months down the road of this so called "flagship" that they themselves have just blown a hole through and are letting it sink very slowly.

That said, other things that are just kinda mind blowing is the fact that they hide behind this "next generation technology/new kernel" lingo. Next gen tech that I saw that was so focused today was NFC. I can understand handsets right now that don't have it not being able to utilize that stuff, but what about things like the PIN for Marketplace purchases, how is that' so dependent on "next generation technology," on a "new kernel?" I know some people have asked about this because its so easy to accidently ring up a large bill because of that feature of allowing purchases be billed directly to your phone bill. Lots of parents give their kids their phones to mess around and distract them, but if they managed to get into the marketplace, then this can happen, and it has happened. Sure you can pin it on the parents, but part of making an UI for an OS is thinking about end user scenarios like this. There's also maps and multitasking which I can't understand be brought over as well because it depends on "next generation technology," or a "new kernel?" Ok, our handsets have GPS, they have the limited ability to multitask, why can't they just allow these GPS apps to go on WP7.x. VOIP I can somewhat understand, probably need a little bit more processing, but the GPS apps do work in the background already from my experience, but it's really annoying to see them close without just because you open a few more apps. These are other things that are probably annoying WP7 users right now; seeing all these seemingly software based features be barred because of "next generation technology/new kernel."

The last thing that might have slight other people is how they say 7.8 is bringing the WP8 Start screen. First of all they demonstrated that apps have to support the new tile sizes. Second, they noted on the WP Blog that 7.8 won't be out for a few weeks after WP8. I'd imagine by this time devs will be focused on making new apps for WP8, leveraging the new tools they can use, and the focus of 7.x will shift, thus lowering the chance of updating of 7.x apps of supporting the new Start screen, and thus probably keeping the number of apps available for WP 7.8 to about 120k by that time. In the end, the major feature of 7.8 becomes insignificant, and just becomes a tease to WP7 users stuck in contracts because they can experience some of 8, but can't even upgrade at a spoiled price.

With all that said, I'm still a proud Nokia Lumia 900 user. I really hope for the best. It was clear that WP8 is compatible with 7.x apps, so it just depends if they can get devs to keep making 7.x compatible apps to keep the app number rising for us. The latest crop of WP are pretty great devices themselves, and Microsoft even pointed out 7 or the top 9 handsets on Amazon, filtered by Avg customer ratings, are Windows Phone; that includes the latest Android phones as well, thus pointing out that even WP7.5 itself is worthy without the 7.8 update compared to the latest dessert offered by Google; I think that itself is pretty noteworthy, and probably the strongest argument a person can make to still recommend a WP7 phone now if a person needs a phone now. It isn't like WP7 is dead, it has 100k apps, still rising (thanks to Yalla, lol), we're still seeing some 2 month exclusives coming by the courtesy of Nokia sucking up to other companies, we're still seeing some apps to make up for some of the missing features we'll be missing out on (Lumia owners get Nokia Drive, which is like the new Maps app at least), and we're still getting that fancy new Start screen that will hopefully have some support.

It isn't all that bad honestly for WP7 users, but it sure is annoying. I'd imagine by 8.5, MSFT is going to drop any support for WP7 users like they did with WM6.x who can't even access the Marketplace to redownload apps. It's just how the market moves. Anyways, that's my added 2 cents to this thread (and among other places).

 

[cckgz4]

You know who I feel bad for? People who didn't get to enjoy the "full span" of said technology's cycle. I feel bad for those just now picking up the latest Blackberry Bold on contract with BB10 coming this year, I feel bad for those who used their upgrade on the 4S with the 5 coming out this year, I feel bad for Motorola Razr owners whom got slapped in the face with the Maxx only a month after release. And the ONLY reason I feel bad for them is if they are upset. This a circle that all companies will continue to practice. You just need to decide which one is the lessor evil. Since I'm at least seeing an update compared to my Android companions, I see it as fairing out better. Yes it does suck that being a new Lumia 900 owner doesn't get to see WP8, but in reality, they are getting an update and if they were a WP adopter before, they'd witness all the significant updates that all devices were able to get.

 

[kylej1050]

7.8 will work for me. I got and have kept WP7 because it works. Most of the WP8 features my Arrive doesn't support anyways so who cares what they call it?

Having an iPhone 3GS running iOS5 doesn't mean you magically get a bunch of new features the hardware doesn't support... just FYI... If you need it to say WP8 so you'll feel better just color it in with a marker or something. It really doesn't matter in the end since most apps released in the next year or so won't be native-code since WP8 needs some time to make up such a large portion of the marketplace that it would make sense to deny the app to WP7 users. By then most people will be ready to upgrade anyways.

This isn't the end of the world folks! At least you're being left behind with a phone that is smooth and nice! Ask android users how much they like their left behind devices. Mine sucked.

 

[Reflexx]

Mmm... maybe more like, buy a car in August, they announce a new model in October that uses different sized tires, and eventually they are going to stop making tires that fit your model altogether.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2

No.

More like the new model uses different sized tires, so you conclude that nobody is going to want to make tires for your car anymore. Even though it's absolutely wrong conclusion you wind yourself up about it.

 

[mb-dape]

Not only is it getting it months after the update has been out, Jellybean will probably be out before everyone is using it on the Atrix.

And look at this link: Google: Ice Cream Sandwich now accounts for 7.1 percent of Android user base -- Engadget That big slice in the pie graph shows all the users on last year's Android OS, which accounts for the majority of users. They are about to release Jelly bean and 64% of their users are still on last years update. And a little over 7% are actually current. Fact. That's my point. We are up in arms about this but look at this matter. As I've stated, people just need to pick your poison

And as someone else has stated: people are NOT going to just have this surplus of apps ready to go for WP8 at release time. It's going to take a minute to see some huge things happen there, let alone apps popping up for WP8 only

Why does it matter when they release Jelly Bean? When the Atrix is about 18 years old it will get ICS, an OS which will keep it going with software/app support for at least another year.

And most people I know with Android phones does not even know what ICS is or what version number they are using, many just know they have a Sony Ericsson or HTC. They download new games and apps from market and it works the same if the have Ice Cream Sandwich or Gingerbread. The apps works over versions without or with little modification from the devs.

Well, we will see what WP 7.8 and WP 8 will bring. You are right that there will be a period when the apps probably will be released for both platforms.

Good night!

 

[cckgz4]

Why does it matter when they release Jelly Bean? When the Atrix is about 18 years old it will get ICS, an OS which will keep it going with software/app support for at least another year.

And most people I know with Android phones does not even know what ICS is or what version number they are using, many just know they have a Sony Ericsson or HTC. They download new games and apps from market and it works the same if the have Ice Cream Sandwich or Gingerbread. The apps works over versions without or with little modification from the devs.

Well, we will see what WP 7.8 and WP 8 will bring. You are right that there will be a period when the apps probably will be released for both platforms.

Good night!

I will agree that the majority of apps now work for most Android devices. My argument was that it was that it was not always the case, which is why I brought up Netflix and Hulu, but trust those weren't the only ones. And it wasn't about having a high end device either

But appreciate the debate!

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

The fact remains, a lot of us techies are peeved off about it. I said I would never use an iPhone, swore by that, but now, in the face of this, I feel like I'm being pressured into it. An iPhone's update system would easy last me 24 months (which is how long contracts are over here), but here I am saddled with a Windows Phone I've owned for 6 months (thankfully I'm not tied into a contract) that has essentially been EOL'd from what I've read.

I couldn't care less for NFC and higher resolution. NFC does not appeal to me, and my resolution is already good enough for me on my phone. I wasn't asking for hardware upgrades. But here's the problem, all devices are moving towards non-removable batteries. All of them, so my next phone... won't be a single one with a removable battery most likely. Ok, so I can either stay on an old device, or just pick my poison. Non-removable batteries were a big reason why I avoided the iPhone. Now with all Windows Phones having non-removable batteries, same with the Androids (the half-decent ones anyway), the iPhone's non-removable battery is fast becoming a moot point.

I also didn't really like the UI on the iPhone, a big reason why I fell in love with Microsoft, but if they're pulling tricks like this, why should I trust them. I bet come October if I tried to sell my HTC TITAN I would get max ?15 for it... not good considering 6 months ago I paid ?440 (around $690) for it! It was supposed to be ?530 (~$830), so I was lucky. 7 or so months later, the EOL announcement is made. Now when Microsoft said they would get 1 major upgrade at least, I expected them to keep to that. My device shipped with Mango, I am not getting a single major upgrade. Can you understand my frustration?

True, the iPhone runs like crap 3 years down the line, but 2 years (after which I would be upgrading) it's still a very usable experience. My friends have promised me that if I get an iPhone I will never hear the end of it, because of how much I badmouthed it. Now it looks like that is coming to bite me in the ***... Microsoft had better get this 7.8 right... Otherwise I'll feel forced out of here due to mistrust.

 

[petersun21]

Utter nonsense that wp8 will not run on existing wp7 phones

Why are so many people trying to find excuses for microsoft not updating current wp7 phones to wp8? It is logical that wp7 does not support dual core. It is illogical that wp8 will not support single core. It is logical that wp7 cannot support nfc. It is illogical that wp8 cannot support a device that does not have nfc. What about apps? MS promoted wp7 devices on ecosystem --- lot apps. Now, wp7 cannot get wp8 appls? It is bs

 

[cckgz4]

Why are people not seeing that Microsoft also addressed that apps can be made cross compatible between the two updates if the developer chooses so? But I digress.

 

[Winterfang]

The developer won't chose so. If they wanted to develop for WP7 they would had done it already.

 

[cckgz4]

The developer won't chose so. If they wanted to develop for WP7 they would had done it already.

If you think that we're getting a surplus of significant apps the DAY WP8 comes out or even 2 months of being out that's EXCLUSIVE to one update, you're mistaken. Developers will want money and attention from both sides and AT LEAST from the jump, I see more of an attempt for apps being made for both updates. Maybe after more establishment, there'll be exclusivity.

But talking to you in a sensible matter leads to nothing

 

[mud314]

You know who I feel bad for? People who didn't get to enjoy the "full span" of said technology's cycle. I feel bad for those just now picking up the latest Blackberry Bold on contract with BB10 coming this year, I feel bad for those who used their upgrade on the 4S with the 5 coming out this year, I feel bad for Motorola Razr owners whom got slapped in the face with the Maxx only a month after release. And the ONLY reason I feel bad for them is if they are upset. This a circle that all companies will continue to practice. You just need to decide which one is the lessor evil. Since I'm at least seeing an update compared to my Android companions, I see it as fairing out better. Yes it does suck that being a new Lumia 900 owner doesn't get to see WP8, but in reality, they are getting an update and if they were a WP adopter before, they'd witness all the significant updates that all devices were able to get.

I totally agree bud. I had a small run with the Nokia 710 and it was my first intro to WP, I really love the OS. Because of reception issues I had to continue with VZ and drop the 710, but I was hooked and just ordered the Trophy through ebay, I didn't want to give up my upgrade for the upcoming WP8s.

No problem about the iOS 6 411 either, I find it really strange that iOS started as being extremely cohesive and they are becoming more and more fragmented. I make fun of Microsoft and how many versions of Windows (desktop) they make, silly I think, but then if you look at iOS it's just called iOSx but there are a many versions. They are just not advertised, which creates more confusion for the average end user.

Since I mostly like the WP7 for its social aspect, hopefully the 7.8 can keep my Trophy relevant for a few months.

What are your thoughts on the gaming aspect that come along with the new OS and hardware requirements?

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Why are people not seeing that Microsoft also addressed that apps can be made cross compatible between the two updates if the developer chooses so? But I digress.

Because let's be honest... how many developers are gonna do that? Also, I bet I get shafted on the ONLY thing I was wanting from this upgrade... the integrated Skype... I'll bet you I get shafted on it. When I bought the phone, I was happy with what it did then, as I also had an iPod to make up for any deficiencies. Apps, not such a big deal, NFC, irrelevant, but the Skype was the reason I used my iPod Touch. The app's come out for WP7, great, but it's still naf-o-rama. Keynote will always be an issue but that's because I got screwed over on my license for Office for Mac 2011 (which I LEGALLY bought).

I can lock my iPod Touch, and the call still goes (I did it several times during my Final Year Project group's Skype meetings), try and do that on Windows Phone, and the app goes dead, disconnecting me. Other problems were present due to incompatibilities with the HTC headset I was using, so I started using my HTC Flyer for that. Last I checked, the TITAN had superior specs to the iPod Touch 4th Generation, so WTF gives?

 

[mb-dape]

You know who I feel bad for? People who didn't get to enjoy the "full span" of said technology's cycle. I feel bad for those just now picking up the latest Blackberry Bold on contract with BB10 coming this year, I feel bad for those who used their upgrade on the 4S with the 5 coming out this year, I feel bad for Motorola Razr owners whom got slapped in the face with the Maxx only a month after release. And the ONLY reason I feel bad for them is if they are upset. This a circle that all companies will continue to practice. You just need to decide which one is the lessor evil. Since I'm at least seeing an update compared to my Android companions, I see it as fairing out better. Yes it does suck that being a new Lumia 900 owner doesn't get to see WP8, but in reality, they are getting an update and if they were a WP adopter before, they'd witness all the significant updates that all devices were able to get.

Cant you feel sorry for me too?

Well I blame myself for not doing better research before buying the Titan, but I have had many Windows Mobile phones and Pocket PC back in the days which was working great at the time, so I thought it wasnt needed.

I was disappointed, so many features and functionality from WM 6.5 and my recent Symbian phone was missing. Really basic things too that smartphones have had for decades. And no options to customize anything, no notification center and no advanced settings or enterprise support whatsoever.

Then I heard in many places that "well, WP7.5. is just a small step while we wait for the big one, Apollo". "Be patient, in Apollo you will get this or that". Apollo was the solution for everything, while WP7 just felt like something temporary on the way there.
Many also had the opinion that MS would never drop support for old devices like they did with 6.5. "Of course MS would upgrade gen 2 devices to Apollo, anything else would be suicide." Etc.

So yes, I had expectations. But today I realized that my Titan that I paid 900 USD for and which is lying on the shelf waiting to be upgraded from WP 7.5 "Beta", will probably just get an new UI and look.

Next time I will do better research.

 

[bushbox browser]

What I would like is know is why the newest WP7 devices cannot be upgraded to WP8?

Some people on here are acting like the Lumia 900 cannot run WP8 becauseit needs a duel core processor or a NFC chip, but is that really the case?

I very much doubt that is the case, especially with Nokia and MS push for lower spec devices.

If there is no technical reason for the lack of update, at least for newer devices, then I think people are justified in there criticism of MS and even the OEMs, I know I will be.

 

[Fleon]

There's no reason why old phones couldn't get the new kernel. The only reason might have been processing power limitations; but, even then, I am skeptical with regards to that for the gen 2 devices. Neither iOS nor Android requires dual core to run. If Apollo REALLY requires dual core, I can imagine it being a very bogged down and slow OS.

No one is asking for anything unreasonable like NFC or a higher resolution. We want the new kernel, which is the most important aspect of WP8.

This is wrong. Developers will choose to support only WP8. A lot of the apps we will be seeing that will be the focal point of WP8 will be direct Windows 8 ports.

Windows 8 + WP8 > WP8 + WP7.8

Well, I am a developer and I agree with the original poster, not your analysis. For our Android stuff, we start with Gingerbread, not ICS. Why? Bigger market. We then port to ICS and then finally for tablets.

For the Windows stuff, however, there is a difference. From what I've seen, I don't think we'll have to even do that- it appears there are a number of compile targets that mean I'll just have to click what I want to compile for : WP7/WP8/Win8/Win8RT. If I have to change a dozen lines of code, I'll just compile for them all. At least currently our Win8 code seems to be pretty easy to move to WP7 so I don't know why we wouldn't just keep doing that.

 

[PC Wonk]

You are aware that while they will be getting iOS 6, they are not getting all of the features and already more and more apps are no longer being supported by older devices? For instance iPhone 4 will not be getting Maps or other features including Siri. The original iPad is not getting any of iOS 6. What can their argument possibly be?

I'm guessing the argument is something like "none of the devices for which iOS 6 support is limited were released within 3 months of iOS 6 being announced." Now, had Apple announced that the most recent iPad and iPhone would not support iOS 6, your analogy might make sense. But they didn't do that.

Also, to be clear, iPhone 4 is getting "maps." What it isn't getting are "turn-by-turn directions." There's a big difference.

 

[12Danny123]

Can't believe former wp fanboys are becoming trolls now

 

[mud314]

I'm guessing the argument is something like "none of the devices for which iOS 6 support is limited were released within 3 months of iOS 6 being announced." Now, had Apple announced that the most recent iPad and iPhone would not support iOS 6, your analogy might make sense. But they didn't do that.

Also, to be clear, iPhone 4 is getting "maps." What it isn't getting are "turn-by-turn directions." There's a big difference.

Then by your analogy it already has Maps. What would make sense and since it can support it since there have been turn by turn navigation apps since for as long as I can remember there really is no reason why the turn by turn nav should not be enabled. It can handle it. Instead they are giving little pieces across the board to everyone except for the original iPad, which again support the OS since it is the same chip that the iPhone 4 currently has, A4 chip. iPhone 4s and iPad both host the same chip as well and still they are getting different versions of the same OS.

The point I am trying to make is that these tech companies are making disposable expensive gadgets and they do not fully support the device for even the duration of most cell phone contracts.