[Lenovo] Yoga 2 Pro vs. [Sony] Tap 11 vs. [Microsoft] Surface Pro 2

[coip]

I will be buying some type of new 2-in-1 device (as Microsoft calls hybrids / convertibles), but am really stressing over which one to get because they all are pretty cool in their own way. First, I must say that this is a good dilemma to have (i.e. having a lot of awesome, innovative hardware choices this season--something Android and Apple consumers don't have) and really goes to show that Microsoft's Surface was indeed successful if only to prod OEMs to step up their game. Second, despite all the great 2-in-1s from other companies such as Dell's XPS, Asus's Transformer and Taichi, Lenovo's Thinkpad Yoga, Samsung's ATIV tabs, Sony's Vaio Duo and Flip, etc, I think I've narrowed it down the the following 3 devices:

• Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 2 Pro
• Microsoft Surface Pro 2
• Sony Vaio Tap 11

Hereafter I'll list the pros and cons, as I see them.

Yoga 2 Pro
Pros

• 13.3" screen is better for multitasking
• It works really well as a laptop (i.e., in the lap)
• decent battery life

Cons

• It's a little heavy (3.06lbs)
• Keyboard cannot be detached making tablet mode bulky and awkward (keyboard exposed)
• no Wacom digitizer
• incredibly subpar color rendering (i.e., the 'yellow' problem)

Surface Pro 2
Pros

• comes with 200GB of free SkyDrive storage (for 2 years) and 1 year of free Skype (including WiFi)
• It works as a laptop thanks to the wide kickstand
• Keyboards can be detached and swapped out with other blades
• comes with a digitizer
• decent battery life

Cons

• It's a little bulky and heavy (2.0lbs) for its size
• Screen is a tad small for multitasking (10.6")

Tap 11
Pros

• very thin and light
• wireless keyboard
• kickstand works well on a desk, capable of multiple positions
• comes with a digitizer

Cons

• Screen is a also tad small for multitasking (11.6")
• impossible to use on the lap or on unstable surfaces (e.g., a bed)
• battery life is lacking

I was initially leaning towards the Yoga 2, but the Surface Pro 2 and Sony Tap 11 really got me excited with their designs. The Yoga is 80% laptop, 20% tablet (due to it's size and attached keyboard; the Surface Pro 2 is like 50% laptop and 50% tablet; and the Tap 11 is like 10% laptop, 90% tablet. I know it depends on what I'm using it for. I want it to be everything: my work device, my play device, etc. I think if I didn't already have a Surface RT (which I love, by the way), I'd really lean towards the Surface Pro 2 or Tap 11 (in fact, if the Tap 11 could've been used on the lap as well as the Yoga 2 Pro, I'd definitely have gotten it), but as it is, I am leaning towards the Yoga 2 Pro. Maybe my opinion will change when I get a chance to play around with all the devices in the store in the next 2 weeks, but in the meantime, feel free to try to change my mind.

EDITED TO ADD:
The big question is, am I overlooking a device? Is there a good device where the keyboard can connect to the screen with enough might to serve a as a laptop (i.e., the keyboard can support the screen)? I was intrigued by the Dell Venue Pro 11, but the docking options were unclear to me.

EDITED AGAIN:
I found two other kind of cool devices: the HP Split and the Toshiba Satellite Click. They both are basically laptops where the screen can pop off and become a tablet. The downsides are that the keyboard doesn't work wirelessly (i.e., it needs to be attached), and the tablets don't have any ports, really hurting their functionality (although, yes, you could easily snap on the keyboard base and use those ports, but not if you don't want to lug it around).

 

[txDrum]

If you want it to be your everything, I think you should go with the Surface Pro 2. It has the best combination of everything. It's big enough to get some actual work done in a pinch, and comes with a docking station that the Vaio Tap and the Yoga 2 Pro can't take advantage of. On the other hand, it's smaller (denser) than both, meaning it should be more portable. Battery life should fall in the middle of the two, or even with the Yoga 2 Pro, and with the optional power pack you should get significantly more.

I think the Yoga 2 is the best for multitasking, but if you want to get real work done, the Surface Pro 2 certainly gives you a lot with the Dock accessory. You can effectively upgrade to that 24" or 27" display that you may have to get real work done. If you want a "your everything" device, then the Surface Pro 2 hits the bill, imo.

It all depends really on whether you consider a 10.6" screen usable. If it's definitely too small, then get the Yoga 2 Pro. If you already love your Surface RT though, I think you'd be ok with the Pro 2.

Edit: Dell Venue Pro should work similar to the Surface. It has a few additional options that business users might find attractive like a removable battery, and of course the lower $499 price point using Intel's Atom. On the other hand you sacrifice the design, as I'm personally a fan of the design of Microsoft surface over the Venue Pro. But with the wonderful price point, and if the keyboard cover is reasonably priced, it could be a good choice. I almost definitely plan on getting one for my sister for Christmas, as she's running my old Gateway that I had for 5 years before even passing it to her (and a 10" original gen netbook, which is kinda eww)

 

[fwaits]

I just pulled the trigger on a Yoga 2 Pro myself, wanting a device that would be both my work machine and could also do my leisure stuff. I don't feel I "need" a tablet as much as a light laptop though so your preferences/needs will vary. I do think I may compliment it up the road with an 8" tablet device though for those times where I really want something small on the go for consumption and such.

 

[bawboh86]

I own or have owned both the Lenovo Yoga and the Surface. I have the Yoga now because I found that the heft and bulk aren't as bad, especially when propped in a lap. The Surface was great, but I found that the screen size was lacking, much like when I tried to use a netbook as a laptop for a while. The Yoga, for me, hit that sweet spot that I was looking for. It seems like you're definitely looking more for a tablet than an ultrabook that can also be a tablet, though, so you may want to seriously look at the Surface Pro 2. It can definitely hold its own against the Yoga 2, it's previous generation just didn't hold out against it in my use cases.

 

[thejoyofsobe]

To the OP,

You've essentially got the best of breed for each of the form factors except I think you missed taking the new Dell XPS 11 in your consideration. As long as you try out it's unique keyboard (think Touch cover but with haptic feedback) first to make sure you can work comfortably with it it seems to have all the positives of the Yoga 2 and also addresses all of the negatives you listed for it.

2.5 lbs
Same Yoga-style flipping except no exposed keys in tablet mode
Wacom digitzer available

Dell's XPS 11 foldable Ultrabook coming in November for $1,000 and up

 

[MoggSquad]

I was in the same dilemma between the Yoga Pro 2 and Surface Pro 2, but went with the Yoga Pro 2.

Here is my reasoning:

-20% off when ordering via Lenovo's website using code SCOUTS getting i5 / 8gb / 256 SSD for slightly cheaper than Pro 2 with i5/ 4gb / 128 + type 2 cover
-3200x1800 is a plus. I do think it may be overkill, but I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.
-I will game on it on occasion (i.e. League of Legends) and can't picture trying to play LOL on a smaller screen than on the 13" yoga.
-I plan on supplementing it with a 7-8" tablet.
-I own/ed the original Yoga, and it's the best laptop I ever used (I also own a 13" MacBookPro 2012 through work). I also own/ed Surface RT that will be replaced by a 7-8" tablet.

I am bummed because there are no real reviews of the Yoga 2 yet. I'm assuming they did not send any out for review. I have read enough reports from users that the display is having issues with yellow colors. I find it surprising that something like this isn't caught in QA, and am not sure how major it is to be on the device.

 

[coip]

Thanks for the replies. It is tough because all of these devices are really quite good (although I noticed none of you here seemed interested in the Tap 11, but the WPcentral review for it was pretty glowing). I think I really need to go into a store and spend some quality time with each of these to best decide.

Regarding the Dell XPS 11, I see it has the same 360-hinge set up as the Yoga 2 Pro. I thought Lenovo had patented that or something and that's why no other OEMs were aping the original Yoga. Did Dell license it or was I mistaken about Lenovo having a patent on it? Also, I see the keyboard is a touch keyboard (like the Touch Cover for the Surface). I actually have a Type Cover for my Surface RT because I worried I'd struggle with the touch cover. Have you tried out the XPS keyboard?

EDITED TO ADD: I read that Dell opted for the touch-style keyboard to try to address the biggest complaint many people had with the 1st-generation Yoga: that the exposed keyboard on the back during tablet mode was too awkward. That's an interesting move by Dell

Regarding the Yoga 2 Pro, I tried out that SCOUTS ecoupon just to see if it would work but it wouldn't take it. 20% off would've been sweet. What was the final price you paid for yours (pre-taxes) with that coupon?

Regarding the Surface Pro 2, I really like what Microsoft is doing with all the peripherals: Type Cover 2 and the other swappable 'blades', the wireless keyboard, power keyboard thing with extra battery, the docking station, etc. Mega props. The only problem is that the costs will really skyrocket when you add all that in. It's definitely an amazing device. I love the build quality on my Surface RT and can only imagine how much better the Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2 are. Well done, Microsoft.

 

[samurai_vara]

If the yoga had digitizer support I would have bought it in a heartbeat.

Microsoft should seriously think about releasing a 12-13 inch surface pro. 10.6 is too small and the 16:9 aspect ratio is also kind off odd for a productivity tablet. At least they should have gone with 1200p with 16:10 aspect ratio. So much for the productivity.

 

[thejoyofsobe]

Thanks for the replies. It is tough because all of these devices are really quite good (although I noticed none of you here seemed interested in the Tap 11, but the WPcentral review for it was pretty glowing). I think I really need to go into a store and spend some quality time with each of these to best decide.

Regarding the Dell XPS 11, I see it has the same 360-hinge set up as the Yoga 2 Pro. I thought Lenovo had patented that or something and that's why no other OEMs were aping the original Yoga. Did Dell license it or was I mistaken about Lenovo having a patent on it? Also, I see the keyboard is a touch keyboard (like the Touch Cover for the Surface). I actually have a Type Cover for my Surface RT because I worried I'd struggle with the touch cover. Have you tried out the XPS keyboard?

EDITED TO ADD: I read that Dell opted for the touch-style keyboard to try to address the biggest complaint many people had with the 1st-generation Yoga: that the exposed keyboard on the back during tablet mode was too awkward. That's an interesting move by Dell

Regarding the Yoga 2 Pro, I tried out that SCOUTS ecoupon just to see if it would work but it wouldn't take it. 20% off would've been sweet. What was the final price you paid for yours (pre-taxes) with that coupon?

Regarding the Surface Pro 2, I really like what Microsoft is doing with all the peripherals: Type Cover 2 and the other swappable 'blades', the wireless keyboard, power keyboard thing with extra battery, the docking station, etc. Mega props. The only problem is that the costs will really skyrocket when you add all that in. It's definitely an amazing device. I love the build quality on my Surface RT and can only imagine how much better the Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2 are. Well done, Microsoft.

The Dell XPS 11 (which has a 12.5" screen) has a different style of 360 degree hinge which is not the same as Lenovo's but as far as consumers really care it's effectively the same.

I love the Sony Tap 11 and am going to order the Core i7 version as soon as I try it out in Best Buy. I didn't go on about it in this thread like i've done elsewhere because i got the impression from your initial post that being able to use it in your lap and screen size was a big deal and it doesn't look like the Tap 11 is going to be a workable solution for you. Where as for me other than the short battery it's well suited for what i want to do with it. 11.6" is the minimum size i need to be able to use the desktop and i'll have more room to use my stylus when taking notes. This is why Surface Pro 2 (even with the better GPU) is not for me. The Tap 11 is lighter and thinner despite having a larger screen. I don't work on my lap even with my current laptop as i'm always at a table or it's on the coffee table so the lack of 'lapability' works for me as well as the keyboard being wireless whenever i'm projecting to my living room television (which is every day). even there the IR blaster is going to simplify my using it as my primary media device at home. the keyboard is less cramped than the Surface I'm even left-handed so the stylus clip on the left side is going to be really nice.

My mom has the first Yoga and while it's a really good ultrabook it's unwieldiness as a tablet, weight and lack of digitizer killed its successor for me because i'm looking for a device that can do it all.

 

[MoggSquad]

I read SCOUTS expired, but you can use YOGA2PRODEAL for $250 (as oppossed to $280 using SCOUTS) on the i5/8gb/256 in orange. It was $1119 before tax using SCOUTS and will be $1149 using the other code. I forget the expiration, but I want to say the 25th.

The Surface Pro 2 with Type 2 is $1129 for i5/4gb/128

If it weren't for the 20% off I wouldn't have ordered it yet since there may be some quality concerns with the initial batch and no reviews anywhere yet despite people have been buying them in store for 5+ days. It still doesn't ship for 1 week and have wondered if I should get the SP2 instead, but like I said I worry about trying to play a game like League of Legends on a smaller screen. Also, the SP2 / accessories are low in supply or sold out.

I've been happy with the SP2 reviews. Sounds like it's lightning quick and quality hardware as expected with no issues.

As far as touch vs type. I have the touch kb and don't like it at all.

Regarding the Yoga 2 Pro, I tried out that SCOUTS ecoupon just to see if it would work but it wouldn't take it. 20% off would've been sweet. What was the final price you paid for yours (pre-taxes) with that coupon?

 

[MoggSquad]

The XPS 11 is interesting, but it seems to have a touch style keyboard which I do not like.

 

[coip]

I love the Sony Tap 11 and am going to order the Core i7 version as soon as I try it out in Best Buy....even there the IR blaster is going to simplify my using it as my primary media device at home. the keyboard is less cramped than the Surface I'm even left-handed so the stylus clip on the left side is going to be really nice.

Could you explain more about the IR blaster and how you use it with your TV? That sounds really interesting.

 

[thejoyofsobe]

Could you explain more about the IR blaster and how you use it with your TV? That sounds really interesting.

Sony has an infrared blaster built into the tablet so you can control your TV or sound system with the tablet itself rather than keeping the remotes at hand. Given that I intend to use Windows 8.1's Miracast support to push audio and video to my TV from my Tap 11 i should be able to also use this remote app on to control my TV. I don't have cable so i currently watch all of my TV and movies on my old laptop with a VGA + audio cable running to my TV. I'm going wireless as soon as my new tablet PC arrives. I also browse the web on my big screen TV at home with it as a second monitor and Windows 8.1. Miracast allow you to extend your display in that same way but keep in mind that's not limited to the Tap 11. You should have Miracast support in any of the devices listed in this thread.

See pic from WP Central's review of the remote app
http://www.windowscentral.com/sites...10/Sony Vaio Tap 11- Remote Control App_1.jpg


I think there's even greater synergy if you have a Sony Bravia TV because you can use the TV SideView app on the Tap 11 from the Windows Store.
TV SideView | Entertainment Lifestyle Guide - Sony

 

[89caps]

I got the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro i7, 256GB for $1119 before tax from BestBuy

 

[coip]

Sony has an infrared blaster built into the tablet so you can control your TV or sound system with the tablet itself rather than keeping the remotes at hand. Given that I intend to use Windows 8.1's Miracast support to push audio and video to my TV from my Tap 11 i should be able to also use this remote app on to control my TV. I don't have cable so i currently watch all of my TV and movies on my old laptop with a VGA + audio cable running to my TV. I'm going wireless as soon as my new tablet PC arrives. I also browse the web on my big screen TV at home with it as a second monitor and Windows 8.1. Miracast allow you to extend your display in that same way but keep in mind that's not limited to the Tap 11. You should have Miracast support in any of the devices listed in this thread.

Whoa, this Miracast thing seems pretty cool. Do you have a link to a good guide out there than can tell me more about it and how to set it up and take advantage of it? I couldn't really seem to find one with a search. Right now I have an old laptop running 24/7 with OTA TV connected to Windows Media Player through it, which I control with my Lumia 928 and Surface RT via the PC Remote App, but it's a little clumsy. So, I'm intrigued by the Miracast thing, although it means my TV must have built-in Wi-Fi, no? It doesn't. I didn't get a smart TV because the guy at the store said I don't need one since I'm getting an Xbox One, which will make it "smarter than a smart TV". I also don't have cable or satellite TV.

 

[thejoyofsobe]

Whoa, this Miracast thing seems pretty cool. Do you have a link to a good guide out there than can tell me more about it and how to set it up and take advantage of it? I couldn't really seem to find one with a search. Right now I have an old laptop running 24/7 with OTA TV connected to Windows Media Player through it, which I control with my Lumia 928 and Surface RT via the PC Remote App, but it's a little clumsy. So, I'm intrigued by the Miracast thing, although it means my TV must have built-in Wi-Fi, no? It doesn't. I didn't get a smart TV because the guy at the store said I don't need one since I'm getting an Xbox One, which will make it "smarter than a smart TV". I also don't have cable or satellite TV.

If you don't have Miracast support built into your TV you can buy a $50 or so adapter from Netgear or other vendors. The good news is I won't even post links to those since you're getting an Xbox One which has a built-in Miracast receiver. Again any of the devices we're talking about in this thread should be able to push audio and video over Miracast to your Xbox One and thus your big screen but here's a video of it being used with Windows 8.1 running on an original Surface Pro.
Surface Pro with Windows 8.1 Miracast test using Netgear Push2TV PTV3000 - YouTube

Certain Android devices support the standard as well.
Miracast: Everything to know about mirroring Android | How To - CNET

There's a walk through of setting it up in Windows 8.1 in the following site
Windows 8.1 features Miracast wireless display tech, and it works well — Within Windows

 

[coip]

The good news is I won't even post links to those since you're getting an Xbox One which has a built-in Miracast receiver. Again any of the devices we're talking about in this thread should be able to push audio and video over Miracast to your Xbox One and thus your big screen

Interesting, especially because the Xbox One dropped support as a Windows Media Player extender like the Xbox 360 can do (a very peculiar decision), but it seems like MiraCast compatibility built in can compensate for a lot of the features lost by not being able to use WMP. Cheers.

 

[coip]

Well, I was leaning heavily towards the Yoga 2 Pro, but it seems that it has a massive color rendering problem, which I discuss here. This is very disappointing. Does Lenovo have no Quality Assurance team at all?

 

[JDThird]

I've had the Surface Pro since it was released. My history with MS tablets goes back to the very beginning, to such a degree that I won their MVP award for tablets two years in a row. And I loved them until 2009 when a friend showed me his Macbook pro, and I fell in love with the touchpad. Been using them exclusively ever since, until I got the surface in Feb more out of curiosity than anything. I loved it, but I found that I almost never used it for work or even my home things, I used it just to play a few games and do some doodles with the digitizer since I missed having a digitizer. I was too used to the Retina Macbook Pro's resolution, since I do a lot of work with servers in remote sessions. Screen real estate is an absolute must have for me. But with the changes in OS X and iPhones this month, I'm leaving the Mac world and going to Windows exclusively again and was debating between the Yoga 2 Pro and the Surface Pro 2. The one thing with the Lenovo that I didn't like was the lack of an active digitizer, but looking at my Surface use over the last 8 months, other than using it to demonstrate my absolutely scary lack of artistic skill by sending drawings to an art major I know to drive him nuts, I never did use the digitizer. I was lucky enough today to get the local brick and mortar manager to dredge up what appears to be one of the last remaining Yoga 2 Pros in another state, to ship it to my store to buy. The bad yellow rendering can be at least for now compensated by some power setting changes, and hopefully Lenovo comes out with a fix for it, but I don't use it for publishing or editing or graphics work so i may not even notice it. For me, the big thing came to real estate, and I have to admit the 1199 price for a Haswell i7 with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD was just too tempting to pass up.
But while the Yoga 2 Pro is going to be very, very useful for me compared to the not at all useful Surface Pro, I'm going to MISS that Surface Pro. People complain about things like feeling the keys when the keyboard was flipped backwards (like they do with the Yoga line). That never bothered me in the least. People complained that it was "too heavy to comfortably use as a tablet while walking or standing, taking notes." I remember some of the insanely heavy and large tablets in the 2005 through 2009 years, so the surface felt like a feather compared to what I used to use regularly. Some people complain that it was too thick. Compared to an iPad, it's thick, but since they're totally different pieces of equipment, it's like saying the ferry that goes across the lake is too wide compared to my car. All the things I read that people complained about the Surface Pro were never even minor issues for me. I never noticed them at all. Other than the lack of real estate with the 1920 x 1080 resolution. And sadly enough, just a couple years ago that would've felt MORE than enough to me since it was all I was used to...
I have to say, the one thing I like the most about Apple finally getting me annoyed enough to drop them, is the fact that the whole situation really opened my eyes to just HOW MUCH is happening in the PC market with Windows 8 and touch devices. Since I was locked in the Mac bubble, I hadn't paid much attention, and it's amazing that when I finally made up my mind to leave the Mac environment, I had to spend four or five evenings googling and reading and searching reviews and looking at specs for an unholy number of possible devices that I could switch to.
While I didn't use my Surface Pro much, I have to say that it was, and still is, a thing of beauty. The most impressive tablet PC I've ever had. And it was a wonderful way to really learn the ins and outs of Windows 8 and touch devices.
I can't vouch for the Tap 11 since all I did was read about it, but anyone who is looking at either the Yoga 2 Pro or the Surface pro 2, I can certainly say that they're both impressive machines and certainly worth consideration.

 

[coip]

Now that the Yoga 2 Pro has been such a huge disappointment, I'm re-opening up my search. I would love to get my hands on the Sony Tap 11 and the Dell Venue 11 Pro to try them out and compare them to the Surface Pro 2. Anyone know when they'll be in stores as display models? Also, regarding the Dell Venue 11 Pro, does anyone know if the keyboard can be a wireless keyboard like the Sony Tap 11 or must it be docked to work? It seems like it must be docked, which means I have a bunch of device options that, collectively have what I want, but not individually. I want a 2-in-1 that has a good keyboard that I can snap-on and use it on my lap, but also remove so I can use it like a tablet, or use wirelessly. This seems to be something none of them can really do out of the box. The Tap 11 can do wireless keyboard, but can't do 'in the lap' typing. The Venue Pro can do the 'in the lap typing' but not do wirelessly. The Surface 2 can do in the lap, but it's not ideal, and it can do wireless keyboard with an extra adapter but...