Mobile first, cloud 'second'....

[taymur]

Well as of the announcement its clear its not for backup. I have several machines including a Surface Pro 2 with only 256GB storage. That has 3 users and only 30GB left without any films on the device. I travel a lot too so thats exactly the reason to put films on, so I can watch what I want when I want, in my reply previous to this, im solving that by creating my own cloud.

I guess the lesson learnt is do not trust tech companies.

how many times do you watch old movies? seriously?

and they seem either very short films, or very low quality ones.

if i had 1000 movies, this will be something within 2-5 TB. specially if i had a screen that can play 1080p or even higher.

I don't know what your needs are, but you can do what every you want. still this does not seem practical to me.

 

[Great deal]

@a5cent - I sent you a PM - i cant see it in my sent items, did you receive it?

 

[Ten Four]

Onedrive is not for "File Backup" and they want people to understand that this is not their market.

Really?

 

[a5cent]

Really?

Where on that screenshot does it say anything about being intended as a backup mechanism?

Everything I've heard from MS suggests OneDrive really isn't supposed to be used as a backup system. It's meant to synchrone small files across devices. That's definitely not what a backup system does.

 

[elindalyne]

I'm pretty sure they were envisioning people's documents, photos and home videos, not things like DB backup, dvr recordings, etc...

 

[Ten Four]

Where on that screenshot does it say anything about being intended as a backup mechanism?

Where it says, "Keep all your files in OneDrive, your free cloud storage." Or is Microsoft now changing the definition of "all" just like they changed the definition of "unlimited?" Guess they better redefine "free" while they're at it.

 

[Kavu2]

Here ya go Microsoft, I fixed it for you


That was easy wasn't it? /s

 

[theefman]

So to the Microsoft defenders, does this make me an "abuser" as well? My pictures and videos (previously) stored on Onedrive were all uploaded via their own mobile platform starting with my WP7 Dell Venue Pro, amounting to about 7GB. I also have a music folder with about 5GB. Add in documents, pdf's and some random files and I was still under the 15GB original limit. Going by what is being said here, I am misusing Onedrive as it was meant only for document sharing, so can anyone then explain why Microsoft built into their OS the picture upload feature or later introduced the option to upload personal music files to be played anywhere?

The argument that Onedrive's purpose was purely for documents and office work is completely ridiculous as Microsoft themselves have gone out of their way to make it available for media storage purposes. Whether this was "abused" by some is again open to question as they themselves advertised certain storage allocations as "unlimited" without any proviso's so I'm at a loss as to how anyone can defend their draconian response with a straight face. Can anyone actually show where the T&C's of Onedrive were actually breached to warrant their response?

In any case, they can go suck it. My music's on my phone, my photos are on my WHS, and once I find a suitable remote access app Onedrive will be one less service I will be using.

 

[Reflexx]

Where on that screenshot does it say anything about being intended as a backup mechanism?

Everything I've heard from MS suggests OneDrive really isn't supposed to be used as a backup system. It's meant to synchrone small files across devices. That's definitely not what a backup system does.

"Keep ALL your files" certainly does imply backup.

 

[elindalyne]

So to the Microsoft defenders, does this make me an "abuser" as well? My pictures and videos (previously) stored on Onedrive were all uploaded via their own mobile platform starting with my WP7 Dell Venue Pro, amounting to about 7GB. I also have a music folder with about 5GB. Add in documents, pdf's and some random files and I was still under the 15GB original limit. Going by what is being said here, I am misusing Onedrive as it was meant only for document sharing, so can anyone then explain why Microsoft built into their OS the picture upload feature or later introduced the option to upload personal music files to be played anywhere?

The argument that Onedrive's purpose was purely for documents and office work is completely ridiculous as Microsoft themselves have gone out of their way to make it available for media storage purposes. Whether this was "abused" by some is again open to question as they themselves advertised certain storage allocations as "unlimited" without any proviso's so I'm at a loss as to how anyone can defend their draconian response with a straight face. Can anyone actually show where the T&C's of Onedrive were actually breached to warrant their response?

In any case, they can go suck it. My music's on my phone, my photos are on my WHS, and once I find a suitable remote access app Onedrive will be one less service I will be using.

You're not an abuser. Microsoft should have grandfathered you in, which they sort of are... For a year. You'll get 1TB of storage for a year after the changes take place if you redeem your free year of office 365. They probably should have grandfathered you in at 15.

 

[Kavu2]

Today 11/06/2015, Microsoft is STILL selling OneDrive as a way to back up your files.

From Microsoft's very own webpage....Microsoft.com Windows features page


To quote(my emphasis): "And these apps use OneDrive to back up your information..."
>Microsoft....if you don't mean "back up", STOP using those words to promote your products !

And I hope this discussion doesn't regress into a parsing of the meaning of 'back up' ala past Presidential impeachment hearings with the 'true' meaning of 'is'.

MS, just stop using the words: 'back up'. It's pretty simple. Perhaps use the words: 'Access some(but not all) of your most important files across your range of devices'. That would be a closer representation of the truth at this juncture, because you can't have trust without truth.

 

[a5cent]

Today 11/06/2015, Microsoft is STILL selling OneDrive as a way to back up your files.

Well, there is no arguing with that discovery. The notion that we'd "back up" something in order to synchronize it across devices is completely foreign to anybody who went to a computer science class, but there you go. I completely agree with your conclusion, which is that MS really should stop using the word "back up" if that is not what they intend the service to do.

"Keep ALL your files" certainly does imply backup.

No, it doesn't imply that at all. I really don't understand why you or any of the other smart people on these forums would think that. I keep all my files on my hard drive. Does that mean they are backed up? No. It doesn't.

Backup implies archival! It's dead data that just sits there, which is typically compressed, labelled, dated, and has some way of proving its validity and that it wasn't tampered with. A backup service usually also offers some sort of password protection, and usually has specific features for data restoration and the ability to compare backups/snapshots.

IMHO the fact that OneDrive supports none of the above, or any other single feature that would be typical of a modern backup solution, makes it glaringly obvious that OneDrive is not actually intended to be anything of the sort. Any IT administrator would laugh at the notion of OneDrive being a backup solution, as it provides nothing specific to that task beyond storage space.

On the other hand, looking at what OneDrive actually can do, I'd say it's quite clear that it is most suited to dealing with live data that you're currently working on and which you'd want to access from different devices. Is it not obvious that OneDrive is actually focused on bringing W10 devices into the mobile age, rather than being a 1980's grade backup solution?

And again... "keep all your files in OneDrive" is not semantically identical to "use me as a backup service".

I'm somewhat flabbergasted that this is even controversial. It really shouldn't be.

 

[Reflexx]

Well, there is no arguing with that discovery. The notion that we'd "back up" something in order to synchronize it across devices is completely foreign to anybody who went to a computer science class, but there you go. I completely agree with your conclusion, which is that MS really should stop using the word "back up" if that is not what they intend the service to do.



No, it doesn't imply that at all. I really don't understand why you or any of the other smart people on these forums would think that. I keep all my files on my hard drive. Does that mean they are backed up? No. It doesn't.

Backup implies archival! It's dead data that just sits there, which is typically compressed, labelled, dated, and has some way of proving its validity and that it wasn't tampered with. A backup service usually also offers some sort of password protection, and usually has specific features for data restoration and the ability to compare backups/snapshots.

IMHO the fact that OneDrive supports none of the above, or any other single feature that would be typical of a modern backup solution, makes it glaringly obvious that OneDrive is not actually intended to be anything of the sort. Any IT administrator would laugh at the notion of OneDrive being a backup solution, as it provides nothing specific to that task beyond storage space.

On the other hand, looking at what OneDrive actually can do, I'd say it's quite clear that it is most suited to dealing with live data that you're currently working on and which you'd want to access from different devices. Is it not obvious that OneDrive is actually focused on bringing W10 devices into the mobile age, rather than being a 1980's grade backup solution?

And again... "keep all your files in OneDrive" is not semantically identical to "use me as a backup service".

I'm somewhat flabbergasted that this is even controversial. It really shouldn't be.

But if MS used the same definition of dead data, then marketing the idea you could back up your files would mean archiving, wouldn't it?

Their materials specifically state to use OneDrive to back up all your files.

I personally used OneDrive to "back up" the photos and videos I have on my phones. That's what they wanted, isn't it?

 

[HeyCori]

It should be noted that Microsoft's OneDrive blog talks about using OneDrive as backup and changing OneDrive to focus more on productivity.

The OneDrive Blog

OneDrive storage plans change in pursuit of productivity and collaboration

Instead of focusing on extreme backup scenarios, we want to remain focused on delivering high-value productivity and collaboration experiences that benefit the majority of OneDrive users.

OneDrive has always been designed to be more than basic file storage and backup. These changes are needed to ensure that we can continue to deliver a collaborative, connected, and intelligent service. They will allow us to continue to innovate and make OneDrive the best option for people who want to be productive and do more.

 

[a5cent]

It should be noted that Microsoft's OneDrive blog talks about using OneDrive as backup and changing OneDrive to focus more on productivity.



The OneDrive Blog

Thanks for those quotes.

The first quote confirms what I'm saying. OneDrive is about collaboration and productivity. Not backup scenarios.

The second quote confirms the same, by stating that OneDrive was NEVER about backup, as they want to REMAIN focused on collaboration and productivity.

In the third quote I think the writer was thinking "OneDrive's features are far more sophisticated than anything offered by a typical backup solution", but it could obviously also be interpreted as "we do backup and more". Those two interpretations are somewhat contradictory.

Overall, I think those quotes are more supportive of my stance. They seem to generally confirm that OneDrive is focused on mobility, access, sharing and collaboration, not backup scenarios.

 

[a5cent]

Their materials specifically state to use OneDrive to back up all your files.

I understand MS has occasionally mentioned backup in their marketing materials. At the same time, they've explicitly stated that backup scenarios are not what OneDrive is focused on. What are we to make of that? To me it looks like it may just be another example of MS' marketing department not comprehending the engineering department, but I digress.

No matter how people actually use OneDrive, the fact remains that there is literally nothing about OneDrive that makes it a good backup solution. Nothing.

Amazon glacier is an example of an online storage solution that is actually suited for backup. That's what an online backup solution looks like. It's nothing at all like OneDrive...

I personally used OneDrive to "back up" the photos and videos I have on my phones. That's what they wanted, isn't it?

Yes, that's what they wanted, but I think we agree that is not really a backup (you put "backup" in quotes).

The name itself "online camera roll", already makes it pretty clear that we're not talking about backup. The features offered are focused on synchronization accross devices, simple data exchange without wires, and possibly some online sharing.

It would be a backup if your entire photo collection was on your phone and then backed up for safekeeping in the cloud. That's clearly not what the online camera role is about.

 

[a5cent]

BTW, I just watched Windows Weekly. A bit after the 30 min mark Thurrott takes the position that MS not only never intended OneDrive to be used as a backup solution, but that they don't want it to be used as such and don't want to be in the bulk backup business at all. He suggested that the recent quota changes were in part to discourage the use of OneDrive for "extreme backup" purposes, which is how he himself, being a 365 subscriber with unlimited storage, used it.

 

[Reflexx]

BTW, I just watched Windows Weekly. A bit after the 30 min mark Thurrott takes the position that MS not only never intended OneDrive to be used as a backup solution, but that they don't want it to be used as such and don't want to be in the bulk backup business at all. He suggested that the recent quota changes were in part to discourage the use of OneDrive for "extreme backup" purposes, which is how he himself, being a 365 subscriber with unlimited storage, used it.

Then MS was horrible in their marketing, because to a lay person, and apparently to Thurrot initially, the message appeared to be for backup and access.

Especially for media.

 

[a5cent]

^ That's what I think too.

It looks like MS' marketing never really understood OneDrive, at least nothing beyond the trivial fact that it's online storage. The technical limitations and feature matrix, as opposed to the marketing, have always suggested backup isn't the idea however.

Thurrott and Foley speculate, similar to myself, that it was the bean counters who ultimately settled the issue, as the trajectory the service was on just wasn't economically viable.

 

[Ten Four]

Some seem to be arguing that it is all our own fault (the consumer) because we didn't read between the lines and carefully parse Microsoft's advertising and marketing that explicitly told us to store everything in OneDrive so that it would be accessible on all of our devices. Whether or not you consider this backup or just for "collaboration and productivity" they explicitly stated that you would have "unlimited" storage for Office365. It is mind boggling that people are defending this blatant misleading of the public by telling us that we were misreading things all along.