My list of pros and cons for those thinking about a Surface Book

[savagelizards]

Swap it for a new Surface Book. That's not normal.

Went to the Microsoft store yesterday and a technician pulled all my BSOD dump files and said it was the NVidia GPU driver, which he confirmed was the correct one. He removed the driver and downloaded the driver installation package directly from the Microsoft website and said I would be fine. I am not a newbie to these things, so I am a bit dubious as to how this will solve wifi connection issues, etc., but we left it that if it BSODs again I should come in and swap it out. He explained to me that he was saving me the time and effort I had already invested in installing updates, the W10 November update, etc and all my files, one drive and application installations.

Just for laughs, I asked him what he thought about my original choice between the Dell XPS 15 with the 16gb ram configuration and the Surface Book and he said he always likes the bigger screen real estate but that was a far as he would go.

 

[savagelizards]

There aren't any better packages. Show me some of these supposedly better laptops for the price and I'll show you laptops with bad keyboards, mediocre battery life, mediocre displays or lower resolution displays, bad keyboards/track pads, worse specs, higher weight, missing features, etc.

I think it's a bit of an overreach to say that Surface Book is a value play. Clearly there are other choices with better specs for the same price. But some things are more about tradeoffs between what's right for the individual user. For example, LG is about to announce a 15.6" laptop that weighs less than 2.2 pounds. Does that mean that the 50% heavier 13.3" Surface book is too heavy? Not at all, any more than that the LG doesn't come with the Surface Pen, or only has 7.5 hours of battery life.

The Dell XPS 15 with 16gb of RAM has a larger display with Quad HD, more storage, a better graphics card and is about $200 less than the $2099 Surface Book I purchased. If I don't end up being satisfied with Surface Book, that's the direction I am headed. I suspect that's a choice that a lot of potential Surface Book owners are considering.

At the end of the day, you are buying the Surface Book at a premium to other devices and not simply for the specs. The bargain is that because the hardware and OS are both designed by the same company you are paying for it to just work... flawlessly... magically... dependably.

That's why to me if it isn't perfect out of the box, Microsoft didn't perform. Better to wait until it could be than to taint the user experience. You can feel sympathy for Microsoft, having to deal with delays in Skylake production and being left with a choice between missing the holiday cycle or shipping before the software was ready. But they didn't protect their brand. They built a dream device, but influencers like the folks on this board are frustrated because they can't recommend this product to their friends who are ready to upgrade.

At least I personally can't recommend the Surface Book... yet. And certainly not for folks that don't have a Microsoft store nearby. That said, I certainly hope to do so in the not-to-distant future.

The good news is that for the first time in a long, long time, the PC world has high end devices with great build quality to choose from.

Now they just have to get this Windows 10 dialed in and build a Surface phone that can run the full version of W10 (and support CDMA and GSM across a full spectrum of frequencies). Hopefully they get it done before my aging Nokia Icon gives up the ghost.

 

[Lethal_NFS]

Lethal, it is hard to take you seriously when you ignore many of the Book's features for the sake of making your point. The Book wasn't designed to be a gaming laptop and Microsoft hasn't marketed it as one, yet you are comparing it to one.

Hard to take me seriously? I could not be more serious when listing my Pros vs Cons.

Sure the Surface Book has a few nice features. Removing the screen, and the pen. But those do not justify the price and the bugs this laptop comes with. The mere fact that you can buy a gaming laptop for the same price, shows how overpriced this laptop really is. It lacks many standard options. You not upgrade the hard drive or RAM either.

I am clearly a different user than you so you have no right telling me I am wrong. This may be the right product for you, but it is not for me. And I have every right to explain this to people wanting to know if this is the right purchase for them.

And do not tell me I am being bias. I am still using the Surface Book right now. You seem to be unable to accept the fact that I am not happy with the Surface Book. You are saying I must be bias to have this opinion. Heaven forbid I do not like the Surface Book and the price it came with.

There are just so many better laptops for $1,500 out there. Only difference is that you cant pop their screens off..

 

[Dratwister]

In fact, I'm looking for that $1,500-$2,000 ultrabook which has:
-12-14' 2K 3:2 screen with good enough color gamut for editting photos cause I edit photos, a lot.
-Not heavy cause I hate carrying current heavy laptop everywhere
-Touch screen cause that's how I use all portable devices right now
-Include stylus cause I like drawing and take note
-Support dGPU and has ability to play some recent games with playable settings cause, of course, sometime you need entertainment on the go.
-Support windows hello cause that's awesome to have
-Detachable screen then turn around and rettach to dock cause I can take the lightest part to any meeting (which won't ever last longer than 2 hours in my case)
-Kinda good battery life cause my current laptop has worst battery life ever, and I want to change it
-Great keyboard and touchpad but not macbook cause I don't like Apple and I type a lot.

Now all of above criterias are critical and I want all of it on my next device. What can you suggest? Don't tell me to buy multiple devices instead of one, ok? I read about the XPS13 but it has no dGPU, no stylus, no detachable screen. I also read about the Sony Vaio CZ, it's the closest devices to surface book (even though still doesn't have dGPU) but it's way over my budget. And yes, I also read about the latest ultrabook with dGPU from Lenovo but still doesn't fulfil all above criteria, not to mention I don't like the idea of facing the keyboard down. The XPS15, in the other hand, is a beast with light weight, touch screen and small form, but it doesn't have detachable screen and stylus.

IMO, if you've missed one of any above criterias, then the surface book wasn't for you from the beginning. Missing one of above features and yes, you better get something else. But to get all of those features in one piece then I don't think there's any other options in market right now. You're right with your taste, but EnemiesInTheEnd still stand corrected.

P.S: But seriously, since I'm a normal person. I already ordered a surface book i5 256GB dGPU and it's currently in my sister's hand until next year when she come to visit me. Although she said it works perfectly fine, but with all remained bugs. I'm kinda scared of it ) So if you have any suggestion, please let me know so I can ask her to return it back.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

You are trying to tell me the Surface Book is the best laptop on the market and no matter what I show you, you will tell me why the Surface Book is better.

I will pass on that one as I know what a good product is on my own. I know what hardware costs, and I know when something is overpriced. I can show you right now a laptop that is buggy as hell, lacks the ability to upgrade, missing the number pad, and crashes frequently. Hint.....it is the Surface Book.

I am happy for you that you feel like it is money well spent. I know better, and I know this is not worth this price tag. And I am clearly not alone on this one. This is why I made this thread. So I can help people from making an expensive mistake if they are looking for something more than what the Surface Book can offer.

I'm saying the Surface Book is the best combination of features of all laptops the same price or lower. You also don't seem to understand that it costs more for manufacturers to make powerful laptops in a small package than it does for them to make the same thing in a larger package.

 

[EnemiesInTheEnd]

I think it's a bit of an overreach to say that Surface Book is a value play. Clearly there are other choices with better specs for the same price. But some things are more about tradeoffs between what's right for the individual user. For example, LG is about to announce a 15.6" laptop that weighs less than 2.2 pounds. Does that mean that the 50% heavier 13.3" Surface book is too heavy? Not at all, any more than that the LG doesn't come with the Surface Pen, or only has 7.5 hours of battery life.

The Dell XPS 15 with 16gb of RAM has a larger display with Quad HD, more storage, a better graphics card and is about $200 less than the $2099 Surface Book I purchased. If I don't end up being satisfied with Surface Book, that's the direction I am headed. I suspect that's a choice that a lot of potential Surface Book owners are considering.

At the end of the day, you are buying the Surface Book at a premium to other devices and not simply for the specs. The bargain is that because the hardware and OS are both designed by the same company you are paying for it to just work... flawlessly... magically... dependably.

That's why to me if it isn't perfect out of the box, Microsoft didn't perform. Better to wait until it could be than to taint the user experience. You can feel sympathy for Microsoft, having to deal with delays in Skylake production and being left with a choice between missing the holiday cycle or shipping before the software was ready. But they didn't protect their brand. They built a dream device, but influencers like the folks on this board are frustrated because they can't recommend this product to their friends who are ready to upgrade.

At least I personally can't recommend the Surface Book... yet. And certainly not for folks that don't have a Microsoft store nearby. That said, I certainly hope to do so in the not-to-distant future.

The good news is that for the first time in a long, long time, the PC world has high end devices with great build quality to choose from.

Now they just have to get this Windows 10 dialed in and build a Surface phone that can run the full version of W10 (and support CDMA and GSM across a full spectrum of frequencies). Hopefully they get it done before my aging Nokia Icon gives up the ghost.

The best value is going to be the cheapest, most powerful laptop. I'm saying that the Surface Book has the best combination of features and quality of any laptop at or below it's price.

 

[Dush Ku]

Microsoft overcharged the public PERIOD. A premium device? Damn my surface book had so much bugs out of the box I loathed every second of my time with that guy. The alienware (that actually has 6-7 hours battery life) works perfectly right out of the box with no bugs.

Cutting edge tech? Welp if crappy battery life, loud always on fans, and a laptop with a gap is cutting edge tech, then I don't want to see cutting edge tech.

3 hours battery life on a tablet is premium? Ah then I also don't want premium.

I did do a full day with my alienware for school without a hitch other than its weight, not with the Surface Book (died after 3 classes, also ruined my chocolate in my bag).

Note this is coming from a Microsoft fan, who usually defends and advocates the Surface line.

I can't simply see how great the Surface Book is after false promises from panay, a bad product that the team had to issue an apology for, and bugs that will be fixed months after the product launch, months.

I know no product is perfect, and I'm a realist about that, but this "premium device" is not premium at all and far far from perfect, let alone it shouldn't have been launched.

In my experience it's been very premium. Awesome keyboard, awesome trackpad. Amazing screen and inking.
Differing from your experience, I haven't had bugs and blue screens so it's been a great computer. Though I can imagine if I'd had nothing but problems it would be very frustrating.

The combo of weight, thinness, speed, screen size, versatile removable touch screen that has gotten up to 4 hours in meetings, more than enough for my needs. It's made it all very much worth the money. Personal preference, I like the unique look of the gap and hinge that keep the keyboard keys from touching the screen.

I can't imagine now ever using a computer that was more than 4 lbs, or only widescreen, or not removable, or no touchscreen, or no Windows Hello camera. Anything less than all the features of Surface Book in one light thin package would be a compromise and step backward at this point.
Sure you can buy more raw power for the money but always at a cost of weight, size and other features.

I guess I've been fortunate that the only real issue I've had is how it will lose 10% battery overnight. Putting in hibernate instead of just closing the lid solves that for now though so it doesn't really affect me.
I've had it for two months now and somehow I still get the sense when using it that, whoa, this thing actually exists and is real?

 

[thatdennis]

In my experience it's been very premium. Awesome keyboard, awesome trackpad. Amazing screen and inking.
Differing from your experience, I haven't had bugs and blue screens so it's been a great computer. Though I can imagine if I'd had nothing but problems it would be very frustrating.

The combo of weight, thinness, speed, screen size, versatile removable touch screen that has gotten up to 4 hours in meetings, more than enough for my needs. It's made it all very much worth the money. Personal preference, I like the unique look of the gap and hinge that keep the keyboard keys from touching the screen.

I can't imagine now ever using a computer that was more than 4 lbs, or only widescreen, or not removable, or no touchscreen, or no Windows Hello camera. Anything less than all the features of Surface Book in one light thin package would be a compromise and step backward at this point.
Sure you can buy more raw power for the money but always at a cost of weight, size and other features.

I guess I've been fortunate that the only real issue I've had is how it will lose 10% battery overnight. Putting in hibernate instead of just closing the lid solves that for now though so it doesn't really affect me.
I've had it for two months now and somehow I still get the sense when using it that, whoa, this thing actually exists and is real?

I agree, it's an awesome albeit expensive product if it works. I just don't feel that I properly spent my money on a seemingly beta product. One of my main concerns is also the sleep thing, which bugs me to no end. I'm constantly on the move, and I need that sleep (connected-standby), not hibernate/shutdown, sleep.

I still can't believe Microsoft just issued an apology and say "yeah we're gonna fix it in 2016, for now sorry for the buggy mess of a 'premium' product we released. Hope you still shop with us despite us scamming you with false promises of the 2-in-1 hybrid." Similarly to what Paul Thurrott said, it is simply not acceptable for Microsoft to delay fixes for glaring issues into 2016. I mean a sleep fix issue doesn't take 3 months to fix if they tried does it?

 

[Lethal_NFS]

The best value is going to be the cheapest, most powerful laptop.

The best value is the best hardware and most reliable laptop for the best price possible. There are many other laptops right now that fall in to that category where the Surface Book does not. At least not right now anyways.

And obviously this is my own opinion.

 

[savagelizards]

I mean a sleep fix issue doesn't take 3 months to fix if they tried does it?

I would be surprised if it's corrected that quickly. My 1st gen Surface Pro surfed from a similar problem. It began a couple of months after the 8.1 Update was released. Microsoft acknowledged the problem and even corrected it with an update, but it broke again after another update about two months later, and was never fully corrected again. Even now, it occasionally fails to wake from sleep. I never trust sleep on that tablet until it has successfully awakened at least once from sleep. After that point, it's fine until the next restart.

Anyway, I think if this was an easy issue they would have fixed it.

 

[BLKahuna]

lol really? I found this one really quickly.

Look up on Newegg the Alienware AW15R2. It blows the Surface Book out of the water for the same price.

Price - $1,569

15.6"
Intel Core i7 2.6Ghz
16gb RAM
1TB HDD
256 SSD
Nvidia 970M 3GB GDDR5

Hmm, I think the 2-in-1 experience of the Alienware is somewhat lacking. I just tried to detach the screen and I think it broke...

Engineering a product that is both laptop and tablet requires a lot of extra effort and innovation. That all costs money.

 

[Lethal_NFS]

Hmm, I think the 2-in-1 experience of the Alienware is somewhat lacking. I just tried to detach the screen and I think it broke...

Engineering a product that is both laptop and tablet requires a lot of extra effort and innovation. That all costs money.

And yet that Alienware laptop can run The Witcher 3 on high settings. It can do video editing without a hiccup. It can out perform the Surface in every single task.

But at least the Surface can detach itself. Money well spent!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dush Ku]

Except it doesn't out perform on being thin and light and having both a top notch keyboard and pen experience.
At 7.4 lbs large that alienware should be like $500, not $1500. Slim it way down with the same guts and the price would be worth it.

 

[Lethal_NFS]

Except it doesn't out perform on being thin and light and having both a top notch keyboard and pen experience.
At 7.4 lbs large that alienware should be like $500, not $1500. Slim it way down with the same guts and the price would be worth it.

$500? You seem to not know what individual hardware costs. Cpu, Gpu, RAM, HDD, ect.....

Look, the Surface Book is nice. I never said it was a bad laptop. The price is just too high for what you get, or don't get. Add the bugs and inconsistency of the Surface Book, and it just falls short of being worth the price. A gaming laptop will give you more performance, more options, and consistency.

I still have my Surface Book, and I will probably keep it because I don't want to mess with starting over. I just hope the Surface Book 2 has more power and reliability.

 

[savagelizards]

$500? You seem to not know what individual hardware costs. Cpu, Gpu, RAM, HDD, ect.....

Look, the Surface Book is nice. I never said it was a bad laptop. The price is just too high for what you get, or don't get. Add the bugs and inconsistency of the Surface Book, and it just falls short of being worth the price. A gaming laptop will give you more performance, more options, and consistency.

I still have my Surface Book, and I will probably keep it because I don't want to mess with starting over. I just hope the Surface Book 2 has more power and reliability.

I couldn't agree more. I'm in the exact same situation with this book. When it works, it's a great piece of equipment. It's just that when it blue screens, it disrupts my workflow and has often cost me lost work. But the hardware build quality is excellent from a physical perspective. it sure feels balanced (and comfortable) when using it on my lap.That portion of the design is worth some type of a premium, and it has nothing a CPU. I sure hope they get these driver issues resolved because I would like to keep it.

 

[Dush Ku]

$500? You seem to not know what individual hardware costs. Cpu, Gpu, RAM, HDD, ect.....

Look, the Surface Book is nice. I never said it was a bad laptop. The price is just too high for what you get, or don't get. Add the bugs and inconsistency of the Surface Book, and it just falls short of being worth the price. A gaming laptop will give you more performance, more options, and consistency.

I still have my Surface Book, and I will probably keep it because I don't want to mess with starting over. I just hope the Surface Book 2 has more power and reliability.

People definitely put value on different aspects. $1500 is way too much for an over 7lb "laptop" There's no way I'd pay for that. I probably wouldn't even buy it at $500. Now if you put that gaming laptop into something the size and weight of Surface Book then I could totally agree with what you're saying. I certainly didn't value an i7 and 1TB enough to pay $3k either.
I'm not sure how a laptop without touch, pen or 2-in-1 design gives you more options though.

As far as reliability and consistency. maybe I just got one of the few good ones they made.

 

[Migi2015]

Can someone comment on "real world" battery life. MS said you can get 12 hours on a charge, but that was a video rundown test which is irrelevant to using Chrome and apps. Some people have reported only getting 5-6 hours, which is atrocious considering the price.

 

[Lethal_NFS]

Can someone comment on "real world" battery life. MS said you can get 12 hours on a charge, but that was a video rundown test which is irrelevant to using Chrome and apps. Some people have reported only getting 5-6 hours, which is atrocious considering the price.

It is absolutely not 12 hours. 5-6 hours is spot on. And that is with the brightness turned down to almost half. I think I get like 2 hours with just the tablet portion of the laptop.

I am not sure I ever had a laptop that lasted me 12 hours on a charge.

 

[Migi2015]

It is absolutely not 12 hours. 5-6 hours is spot on. And that is with the brightness turned down to almost half. I think I get like 2 hours with just the tablet portion of the laptop.

I am not sure I ever had a laptop that lasted me 12 hours on a charge.

MacBook?Air - Features - Apple

12 hours of battery life for the 13" MBA. Wow.

 

[decider]

I agree with Lethal's view and the reason is that when you are asking for as much money as they are for these supposedly top of the line devices, there can of course be issues that popup cause nothing is perfect. But from my reading of all the complaints in these posts, Microsoft sold hardware with an OS that hardly compliments the folks that spent their money with a higher expectation and rightfully so. I don't own a surface book, but do own the SP4 and I will be returning it for excessive light bleed. I did not spend over $2000 for the light bleed and rightfully so would not have expected that from a supposedly high quality product.