Never expect full attention from Microsoft again for WM10

[gwinegarden]

During the same time as MS managed to develop surface pro3/3, W10 and some beta builds of W10M Apple was able to develop and release a bunch of phones, ios 8/9, two generations of osx, apple watch, apple TV (v2), Siri in most of the world and a bunch of tablets. Impressive!

Can't wait for you to get that iPhone so you will go away.

 

[Ian_Superfly]

Can't wait for you to get that iPhone so you will go away.

Truth hurts. ;-)

And hopefully you will have to wait less time for that compared to what you will have to wait for a good W10M with a decent camera app, L950 and W10 with good universal apps ;-)

 

[nmercy]

The main concern is that I think people are having but not they're not quite sure how to phrase it is Microsoft's philosophy has switched from "Windows will bring people to Microsoft products" to "Microsoft's services will bring people to Microsoft products" to "Microsoft services will bring people to Microsoft." It's just a minor wording difference but it has a huge impact in how the company is run.

Under "Windows will bring people to Microsoft products", the leadership felt they could throw the Windows name on pretty much anything and it would sell.

When they went to "Microsoft Services will bring people to Microsoft products", we saw a strong push of services like OneDrive and how easy everything was when you were in the ecosystem. Microsoft products were still strongly pushed and a lot of times had services that were exclusive to them. Unfortunately I don't think they gave enough time to this philosophy for it to play out and moved quickly on.

Currently they are on "Microsoft Services will bring people to Microsoft". Under this philosophy Microsoft plans to capitalize on selling services like OneDrive, Outlook, Xbox Live, Office, etc... to the consumer. This means they will put the service on anything they can to get people to try and use it and buy into their ecosystem this way. Ironically I think the only reason that this appears to be successful is because they still have the remnants of "Windows will bring people to Microsoft products." Once those remnants move on (around the time that Windows 10 is no longer "free") will be the true test of this philosophy.

Now I am a little surprised that it is taking so long for Windows 10 Mobile on phones to be in a finished state since we've been told that the OS base is the same regardless of what it runs on and Universal Apps are meant to scale from phones to tablets to PCs to Holo Lens. This means that the mobile team should have just had to worry about phone specific features, like the ability to dial, text message, etc... but they could also be running into a lot more of this doesn't run right on ARM processors than they were supposed to.

 

[gwinegarden]

Truth hurts. ;-)

And hopefully you will have to wait less time for that compared to what you will have to wait for a good W10M with a decent camera app, L950 and W10 with good universal apps ;-)

You see, I, like many, don't want or need most of the "new technology". Why do I need a finger print reader or, for that matter, an iris scanner, or a 1000 Megapixel camera, or 3D touch, ad nauseam? I worked in technology for over 45 years, I don't buy it just to have it. I'll, probably, be still using my 920 when you are over on the Apple forums saying you are going Android.

 

[Nabkawe5]

So you're just inventing this line because there's been no mobile builds for a couple of weeks?
It doesn't really matter to you that Windows 10 Mobile has had more updates and improvements released more quickly than any other version of Windows Phone before it?
It really doesn't matter to you that we've had a constant stream of updates to various parts of Windows 10 Mobile (for example, Email & Calendar got updated for me this morning)?
It really doesn't matter to you that Microsoft is a services company as well as software and products? When would you expect to see a Google or Apple executive stand on a Microsoft stage and announce something awesome for Microsoft users?
But well done on getting this thread in the "Trending Now" list.

I'll go through your points one by one.
A. I thought it was called fast because it was supposed to be fast but I guess it just "Seemed Faster TM )

B. Well the insider program got released on February 12, 2015, and here we are 7 months later with the OS not even nearing completion, continuum can't be seen because it needs special hardware, so basically Windows Mobile 10 brought nothing to the table to this day not even a single innovative feature! its just another restart that we have to be patience about.
(I still can't believe that if I entered the wrong phone number I STILL have to delete the whole number to correct my mistake!!! REALLY?)

C. I don't care about app updates because 99% of them are bug fixes, tell me about a single new feature added to those apps you mentioned, I bet not even Microsoft mentioned what they updated

D. Clearly you can care about Microsoft and there's nothing wrong with that, but I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MICROSOFT, our relationship is not mutual UNCONDITIONAL love, it's about one company selling users products at premium prices and then ship them with Beta software, that's all what WPX and WM10 ever was BETA software, so if Microsoft decided suddenly that it doesn't know how to "software and products" and decided to shift their focus into services, THAT IS OKAY but they would deserve all the heat they get for it and that is ALSO OKAY.

E. Really? I a sole user with almost non existent following managed to make something trend? Do I get money or something if I trended an article? can't it be that some people really agree with what I said? I haven't made a single argument that wasn't factual and I even recommended that people should buy the hardware and the software just LATER, when both the pricing and the software is rightfully polished! That would certainly save you from making excuses all day for Microsoft's incompetence in bringing unfinished software on board a premium device.

 

[Mad Cabbie]

Trending doesn't result in payment

We could have a whip round for a basic Huawei Android for you though :evil:

Bored now. Can we lock this one???

 

[Nabkawe5]

CYANOGEN is NOT android. Cyanogen use the latest source codes, and compile a 'custom' beta vanilla rom. Why do they have nightlys? Because it's beta and usually unstable, with many fixes being required. They also try and accommodate a large database of devices. Search XDA and there are many threads where devs are building on a CM rom.

They still have a bigger user base than WP, they do in fact add features all the time to new and old devices, also I lived on CM nightlies for 3 months and even their worst release wasn't as bad as a stable WP release.

Android and iOS are basically evolutions of a prior version with bug fixes and promises they usually can't keep!!!!

Are you using the word "evolution" as a bad thing? REALLY? I would love nothing more than Microsoft to give me an evolution of a prior version of WP, you understand that the reason we're angry at Microsoft is that this is the third major restart WP7/WP8/WM10 in recent times, please give me an evolved WP8.1 with few extra features here and there and I will be a happy guy.

If only people knew how much damage Apple do in the far East, and China. There was a TV programme here a few weeks ago where they investigated Apple and their suppliers. The amount of damage their suppliers do to ecosystems, to obtain tin, for Apples devices requiring solder! I dare say Samsung et al, are just a bad. The working conditions in Chinese factories, making iPhones was eye opening!

I'm sure if Microsoft managed to sell billions of devices they'll travel to far away galaxies, import resources and enslave an alien race to make their phones, where do you think Microsoft makes their phones now?

Anyways, back on subject. Win 10 was a major upgrade for MS after Win 8 was knocked so heavily. Even the mobile version is a major overhaul. 10 isn't an evolution of prior OS's, it's designed to be future proof (whatever that means!), to seamlessly switch between desktop and mobile, to be bought into line with the PC release with apps etc

Oh if only I can find my old posts about a single experience across all screens 2012 was so long ago.

Everyone loves to knock something with minimal information, or reading the dreaded forums / boards, reading between the lines or interpreting in their own way, and making 2+2 equal 5.

 

[Nabkawe5]

Trending doesn't result in payment

We could have a whip round for a basic Huawei Android for you though :evil:

Bored now. Can we lock this one???

The Huawei Mate S is an excellent looking phone with impressive feature I'd love to have it please

 

[Devilreaper]

Ms needs profits. And they can't get it with wp right now so they're showcasing their main products 'Software'. I agree wp is like a child to ms. But look at google. Are they spending all their resources on chrome os? Any sensible adult won't look for instant growth but will focus on long term development for their child. So chill wp will soon become a success as no parent will abandon their child. ( unless its adopted. Looking at you android.)

 

[TechFreak1]

Look, there has been two major re-orgs in the space of a year granted it doesn't excuse a few decisions but obviously it will slow down progress. The massive cut in the Windows Phone side was ill timed in my opinion and that will result in even slower progress not to mention features being cut + packaged into on going updates.

A person can only code for so many hours, they aren't machines you know.

 

[Nabkawe5]

Look, there has been two major re-orgs in the space of a year granted it doesn't excuse a few decisions but obviously it will slow down progress. The massive cut in the Windows Phone side was ill timed in my opinion and that will result in even slower progress not to mention features being cut + packaged into on going updates.

A person can only code for so many hours, they aren't machines you know.

I totally agree, most of the commenters read the points I mentioned (barely) but didn't read the conclusion if you have so much of your programming staff thrown at hundreds of apps and services, it would be logical for the WM10 to be either pushed back or launch lacking the features hyped at the announcement, and my advice about that is dead solid buy the new flagships 5 months after launch, they would've gotten their first update by then and would be sold for a much reasonable price than what Microsoft will try to pry first..

 

[TechFreak1]

I totally agree, most of the commenters read the points I mentioned (barely) but didn't read the conclusion if you have so much of your programming staff thrown at hundreds of apps and services, it would be logical for the WM10 to be either pushed back or launch lacking the features hyped at the announcement, and my advice about that is dead solid buy the new flagships 5 months after launch, they would've gotten their first update by then and would be sold for a much reasonable price than what Microsoft will try to pry first..

The price will go down as with anything and in the case iphones the price drop also exists but it's much slower. Whether or not people buy it at launch that is entirely upto them. It would be illogical to be WM10 pushed back anymore as they would lose the Christmas period completely, don't forget Redstone is due to come out early next year for the desktop O/S.

Never the less there is no point speculating as there is almost under a month to go.

 

[Spectrum90]

Microsoft has its best engineers working on the cloud, playing catch up with Amazon. In the Windows team the priority is the first update for the desktop variant. They rushed an unfinished product to market and they have to fix it. Windows Mobile can wait a couple of months.

 

[N_LaRUE]

So what is the benefit of this so impressive effort?
I think the new iPad pro did run than office quite smooth even on this "super exotic" ios?
I really think it was even better than any universal app that Microsoft has shown yet.
But, maybe we just have to wait?... one year, two years, another new restart?

Again you're mixing things. Office products vs OS. Make up your mind. Are talking OS or Office?

Office has been out on Apple products for some time now as well as Android. They only updated it to work with split screen. You do realise that people have to buy Office on iOS through a subscription? It will be free on W10M.

You seem to be missing the point completely. MS is a software company first. They sell software to people and companies. It's how they make their money. They have different groups working on different products. You don't seem to understand this concept.

The Office programmers are not the OS programmers in other words. There's probably separate groups working on iOS and Android versions as well. Office on W10M will be a universal app. That's completely different than anything on iOS or Android.

You're lacking understanding of how things work in large corporations is showing and your lack of experience in large projects. No idea what age you are but you seem to lack these things and the perception that goes with it. You're not alone in this of course. There's lots of moaning going on in the forums most of it based on lack of understanding of the simplest aspects of programming and how work gets done.

The fact that you're comparing the update to Office on iOS to W10M which hasn't released yet is a clear indication that you're not thinking clearly.

Don't talk about Office on W8.1. The issue here is that Office is integrated into the OS. Upgrading it was always going to be difficult. So let's wait and see.

When will we see? When W10M is released. Office 2016 is coming out. That's the universal app for W10. When it's all said and done then you can have a whinge if you don't like it. At lest then you'll have a complete picture.

 

[Tien-Lin Chang]

TBH I don't care the universal app or the same W10 across all devices - those might be cool to the company and programmers but not to an end customer like me. Can we run .exe on W10M? NO? Then tell me what's the different between "W10 for all" and "WP8.1 + Win8 sildload WP8.1 apps" as a windows phone owner? MSFT choose a very hard way to provide solution, however I don't see a big UX change for mobile side. It's nice to have the same bank app on your phone and on your laptop but it won't kill you to use app on the phone and webpage service on laptop.

The android go through a total redesign to touch-UI when they see iOS, yet they only about one year late on the market. I don't care how hard the task MSFT are trying to achieve now, I believe they're not decided to do so just from last year. We are customers and we want to see something being delivered soon, simple as that. If MSFT can only get low-end SoC from Qcom and not trying to get MTK onboard from day one, THEY ARE NOT TRYING EVERYTHING TO MAKE IT WORK. The rest is just excuses.

 

[N_LaRUE]

TBH I don't care the universal app or the same W10 across all devices - those might be cool to the company and programmers but not to an end customer like me. Can we run .exe on W10M? NO? Then tell me what's the different between "W10 for all" and "WP8.1 + Win8 sildload WP8.1 apps" as a windows phone owner? MSFT choose a very hard way to provide solution, however I don't see a big UX change for mobile side. It's nice to have the same bank app on your phone and on your laptop but it won't kill you to use app on the phone and webpage service on laptop.

The android go through a total redesign to touch-UI when they see iOS, yet they only about one year late on the market. I don't care how hard the task MSFT are trying to achieve now, I believe they're not decided to do so just from last year. We are customers and we want to see something being delivered soon, simple as that. If MSFT can only get low-end SoC from Qcom and not trying to get MTK onboard from day one, THEY ARE NOT TRYING EVERYTHING TO MAKE IT WORK. The rest is just excuses.

Then go to Android and hang out there for a while because you seem to know what you're talking about. OS development is easy in your eyes and Android and Apple are doing far better jobs so why stick with MS?

I don't get people like you or others who just don't get it. OS development is difficult and what MS is doing is not easy.

There is a huge change in W10M compared to WP8 or 8.1. Just because you're only seeing surface things doesn't mean it's 'no different'. Also Android and iOS are completely different. How many times does this need to be said. W10M is not like Android and iOS. It's the addition of a mobile platform to W10 OS. I don't understand why people don't get this. It's not simply an upgrade to WP8.1. You cannot compare this to iOS or Android development. Also as for your comment about .exe files I would leave that idea open for the moment. Just a thought.

MS knows exactly what it's doing and what it's trying to achieve. Unfortunately they're not great at telling people and even when they open up (the technical preview) people are still confused because they don't understand the programming process involved.

If you're not a 'happy customer' take your custom elsewhere. Either you wait for W10M to be released then you can have a good whine if you don't like it or leave. Lots of options.

I don't get this shouting and screaming and impatience. I still believe that the technical preview was a mistaken idea. They were better off without all this moaning. I really am confused by all this whining and complaining.

 

[Visa Declined]

I still believe that the technical preview was a mistaken idea.

You're not the only one. They should have kept the details of progression to themselves, and told everyone it will be done when it's done.

 

[sheldon cohn]

Upper management always acts like their subordinates don't have enough work, and basically always finding new projects for them. Mean while the staff has so much work to do that they are actually over loaded. I have worked in IT for years, and that is how it's been for a while now. I have more then one
Windows phone, the Windows 10 phone is my test phone, where I know I have to be patient. Gabe doesn't want to send out a build that everyone finds fault and they get a lot of bad feedback. They get enough of it now.

 

[anon(5383410)]

The amount of hyperbole on this forum has reached an all-time high.

 

[Ian_Superfly]

You're not the only one. They should have kept the details of progression to themselves, and told everyone it will be done when it's done.

But 18 months with no new interesting hardware, no new apps (but removing old ones) and full focus on iOS/Android might have been even worse if it was not even a beta for people to lay some hope upon?