Nokia shows why it is a failing company.

[Premium1]

Like anything in this world, if you don't like it buy something else instead. No one is forcing you, and just because Nokia doesn't make an exact version you would like, it doesn't mean they're failing, in fact it lets us know that you're a failing human being.

My Acura doesn't come in my favourite color, therefore Acura is a failing company.

Good logic, try again.

The difference is you can get the acura in your favorite color. What a poor choice for comparison. I can understand where the Op is coming from that maybe for he/she they need that extra storage. If people were fine with 8/16gb apple would have never added 32/64gb of storage. And for those saying to him/her to not buy it and buy something else, they do not really have much choice atm since wp doesn't have much selection of phones with larger storage.

 

[nyc_rock]

For the record, Microsoft set hardware requirements to prevent device fragmentation. They are not "minimum" requirements, they are the requirements. The OS is optimised to run on the hardware they have designated which is why that hardware is used.

With Apollo it is widely believed (and alluded to) that Dual-Core processors will be supported. However, as with the current crop of phones I would expect it to be one or two dual core chip sets getting support.

Going by their approach to the WP OS I think the biggest lesson Microsoft has learned comes from Windows. In that it's bloody hard to accommodate a massive range of hardware and you can't necessarily rely on manufacturers to provide decent driver support. Its much the same approach that Apple uses with all of their devices.

But yes, to address the OP, a company producing one of the most talked about phones of the new year and winning a bunch of awards is certainly not what I would call a failing company.

I do not believe you are correct. This link:

Hardware Specifications

Specifically says Ram must be 256 mb (or more) and onboard storage must be 8GB (or more).

Point being, OEM's can take these up (but not down) as they see fit. Since most of the high end phones have 528mb of RAM it would seem they did just that.

And Nokia's ultimate success if for from a foregone conclusion. If they turn around the company they will need to get alot of users of other platforms. For that, they need to offer a true aspirational device. These "geeky tech nerds" who need more storage are generally the same people who line up to buy initially. Its thier word of mouth which drives more and more people to buy.

 

[nyc_rock]

The difference is you can get the acura in your favorite color. What a poor choice for comparison. I can understand where the Op is coming from that maybe for he/she they need that extra storage. If people were fine with 8/16gb apple would have never added 32/64gb of storage. And for those saying to him/her to not buy it and buy something else, they do not really have much choice atm since wp doesn't have much selection of phones with larger storage.

Yeah, of all the counter arguments, that was the worst.

And guess what? I do have a choice. Until WP offers me the storage that I, and many like me, need I will continue to use my 64GB 4S. Had the Lumia been offered in a 32gb version, I would have already pre-ordered it (even though thats not possible, but you get my point).

And before it begins, this shouldnt devolve into an IOS vs WP debate. Not necessary at all. I really like WP so I need no convincing of the merits of the OS.

 

[selfcreation]

You dont understand my point? Im not trying to claim that 10gb is alot (sic). If I use 10gb out of 16gb on music, then that doesnt leave much room for my other files. My total use on my Iphone is 15.7gb out of 32gb.

I *love* the idea of WP mostly because of the Office integration. Puting some large PPTs on my WP may be a problem if my starting point is roughly 15.7. Seems like a fair concern to me. Maybe not a deal breaker for me (at least I hope not), but certainly a concern.

How would you put your 40gb of music on a Lumia 900? You'd cloud it maybe? That doesnt sound like an acceptable option for music; but maybe Im missing something.



OK, fair enough. Though you seem to be contradicting yourself; on one hand you say 10gb of music is not a lot, then you say few people want more than 8 or 16gb of storage. Clearly, if my music storage needs are as average as you claim them to be, then more than just a few people will need larger capacity phones. Perhaps we're miscommunicating somehow, but your assertions as I read them dont jive.

i understand some people need more .. i needed more thats why i got the focus and stuck a 32G SD card in it ....

i was just trying to say is that the MAJORITY of the Smartphone Clients across ALL platforms (RIM, IOS,Android,WP ) IN GENERAL do not need that much memory.

sure for the 5% of people like you and me that actually need it (H*LL, i have 8G in apps alone!!!! ROLF!!! ) but we are an exception to the rule and its Ignorant on OUR PART to assume that people NEED 32G +

( 50,000 members on this site dont even make up 5% of WP users)

NOKIA , HTC , SAMSUNG . they are NOT STUPID!!

its not the first time making SMARTPHONE. they CLEARLY made surveys to see what specific SPECS ( with in WP OS restriction ) would sell the most.....

Samsung , HTC all make android phones with does BIG 32G , 64G .. w/e ... so why haven't they made them for WP?

BECAUSE!!

It would drive up the PRICE of WP by 100$-200$ (and more ) and the fact that WP is a new OS it could not compete with does types of prices...

so by following the logic of GENERAL people not needing the BIG memory and NOT WANTING to pay an extra 200$ for a phone....

putting less memory was actually a SMART BUSINESSES decisions on their parts...
and will probly help them sell more phone then if they put a 64G..

KEEP IN MIND!!

thes are not Iphones .. they CANT just make a LUMA 900 with 8G - 16G-32G-64G .. they had to CHOSE ONE!!!! and they took the logical route.


when the Iphone 4S came out and the Iphone 4 dropped in price .. we only had the Iphone 4 8G ( at zero) we sold more Iphne 4 in a month then we did all year. )

People want: cheap phones . that are COOL . and have BIG specs.. problem is .. you cant give them all that stuff in one package.


also yous aid Music on cloud service is not acceptable? why is that?? the NEW LTE phones are faster then your high speed Internet at home!! ( up to 75MB support ( nokia`s cap at 50MB/sec!! )

listening to youtube on your PC is Slower then Going to get songs on the cloud. ( witch you can even set up as playlist )

i think u did mists something for that CLOUD service is UBER!!! ( im on HSPA 14MB/sec cap , and my phone does it NO PROBLEM)

thast why APPLE copied MS and made a cloud as well

 

[Drivingrain]

also yous aid Music on cloud service is not acceptable? why is that?? the NEW LTE phones are faster then your high speed Internet at home!! ( up to 75MB support ( nokia`s cap at 50MB/sec!! )

Thanks for the detailed reply; very helpful.

I live in an LTE zone so I'm likely to be able to take advantage of the high-speeds as you say. I'd just need to park my favorite tunes on the hard-drive for when Im on the plane and the train.

 

[jdevenberg]

Im new here and just a regular un-informed consumer when it comes to phones...

I joined this forum because I want a Windows phone and now I know I want a Lumia 900. If you check my posts, you'll see that's true. I held the 900 a few days ago and thought it confirmed what I was looking for.

HOWEVER, is 16GB enough for me? I have never even once looked at my storage since buying my now-ancient Iphone 2 years ago. It's 32mb. I just looked now and I see Im usung 15.7GB; 10 of which is music. It makes me want to re-think the switch. The Nokia people sold me on Zune this week at CES and I was just talking to my wife about how I'll down load everything I can becuase of Zune's pricing model (im on a plane a lot; need to download, no streaming). Perhaps the Zune conversion will derease my music file size? Or is there something else I should know before worrying that 16 is too small for me?

Sorry if this was already addressed, but WP supports WMA format music files, which are roughly half the size of the smallest file type that the iPhone supports. So if you convert you music to WMA you will only be using around 5-6 GB of space for the same amount of music.

 

[mkr10001]

Thier first entry into the US market is with a subpar opening price point phone that doesnt even match up against the Samsung Focus.

Now they announce thier "Flagship" phone and dont offer it in 32gb version. What a missed opportunity to actually release a product that would be a step up on the competition. From a spec perspective, they are releasing a phone that is no better than anything that is out on the market. WP allows for so few differentiating factors but memory is where one OEM can actually take the lead. What a shame. And this is after entering the market a year late in the first place. I have no sympathy for what becomes of them.

give over. get a grip

 

[JedH]

The difference is you can get the acura in your favorite color. What a poor choice for comparison. I can understand where the Op is coming from that maybe for he/she they need that extra storage. If people were fine with 8/16gb apple would have never added 32/64gb of storage. And for those saying to him/her to not buy it and buy something else, they do not really have much choice atm since wp doesn't have much selection of phones with larger storage.

Hmm well maybe it wasn't the best argument, but the idea is the same. If I want something a current product doesn't have, why say the company is failing? There's plenty of other phones with 32gb out there, so your back isn't up against the wall. Maybe instead of car color I should of said something along the lines of a car without all wheel drive...either way I'm diverging way too much.

I will never understand why people get so over the top about hardware specs. It's fine to say you'd like it (and in fact doesn't hurt to voice your concern), but really it's not the end of a billion dollar corporation, and why would anyone take you seriously if you go over the top about it.

Opinions of course, no more metaphors for me.

 

[Zumanity]

Hi, I'm new here as well.

I follow WP central frequently, and I have the Weave application on my Windows Phone (where I have a special Windows Phone feed from all the popular websites )

I did not read through all 4 pages of the thread, but I believe both sides of this conversation have merit.


Believe it or not, the U.S Market is accustomed to seeing phones that hold more than 16GB. Whenever people walk into a phone store, they ALWAYS ask about the storage and to see if they can get more. This is not because they necessarily need more, but they are accustomed to seeing people want more. This notion of more does not even have to do anything with phones, its just how the U.S Consumer market is behaving, more more more. I frequent apple/t-mobile/att stores because I plan to intern and eventually work at those companies, plus I just love technology. Every customer I've seen or heard so far has asked about the different sizes.

As for the iPhone, its true that the 16GB is a popular model, but is that because of the storage? Or because people want an iPhone and the 16GB is the cheapest model, on-top of the ridiculous fees they have to pay for service. The same with Android, the manufacturers are just so used to the U.S Consumer demanding more, more more, so they include the 32GB and 64GB types as well.

Recently Microsoft and Apple have been promoting their cloud services iCloud and SkyDrive. What makes Microsoft different is I believe they are heavily trying to get people to use the 25GB free storage from SkyDrive when they purchase a Windows device, be it a phone or computer. I don't know if this is confirmed or not, but in my personal opinion I believe Microsoft might be lax on telling manufacturers to produce higher storage devices because 1) they want to promote SkyDrive (which btw is a good alternative if you REALLY use more than 16GB on the phone) or/and 2) they just want to be different from the competition.

If it was up to me as a manufacturer such as HTC or Samsung, I would want to increase the options on storage on my devices, because face it or don't, the American market wants these options. In our society most believe MORE is good (basic capitalistic creed). You have to understand also that even if people DONT need more than 16GB, they just want more. It's an emerging prognosis of the U.S Smartphone consumer.

In a real world setting, and a practical setting, 16GB is really enough. With Microsoft offering SkyDrive, (and its really easy to use as well) people can take as many pictures as they want, and simply upload them all to SkyDrive to save space on the phone. It's a good and useful solution. People can then realize the benefit of the Cloud, thereby expanding Microsoft purpose in the cloud, creating more revenue. Microsoft knows cloud computing, cloud phones, basically communicating over the cloud is the future, and they want to be the most friendly and most easiest to use (compared to iCloud from apple, which is also really cool).

As for my own opinion on the matter. I used to own a 32GB iPhone 3G, and I think an 8GB Android Mytouch from T-Mobile. I own a Windows 7 Phone with 16GB and it's the best choice actually. I have my music on there, and I sync my photos to Zune, plus load them to SkyDrive, which leaves more space for the 10-15 games I have on it . I like how Microsoft is promoting it's SkyDrive by offering 25GB free, and I own multiple platforms with Windows, so the more the better.

I understand the frustrations of many who look at Windows Phone and see no options. We are used to those 32GB/64GB because of Apple. Apple is the leader in innovation when it comes to Smartphones in my opinion. Not because they have the best system, but because they were the first to introduce a popular smartphone that was new at the time. I personally would also like to see 32GB/64GB Windows Phones. I believe that will be coming Q3 of 2012 with Apollo. What people really need to have is patience, which is sort of unrealistic in its own right. People expect the industry standard, which is high quality devices with more storage. Windows Phone will catch up, eventually.

I am in no way an expert in this industry, it's just my own opinion to this VERY interesting matter.

Let's continue the discussion in a meaningful way!

Thanks.

 

[rezzet]

This is so true. Since WP is getting more exposure, I'm noticing serious trolling on the internet!

And I notice serious fanboys. Please stop using word "troll" for everyone who says something you dont like.

I dont know what fate Nokia will have. I personally like the directions they are heading. From the first impression, phones they have look solid to say the least. But lets not dismiss the fact that consumers always want better stats. Sure iphone sells more lower end storage models, but thats mostly because people think they are being ripped off price wise on upgrade. Mind you, many friends I know who bought 16gb iphones, regretted it just months later.

Sure MS dictated specs are ok, doesnt mean any of us im sure would decline higher resolution or more storage. I for one would love to have 32gb in my titan. Maybe 8-16gb is enough for you, but not for all, who like to dl xbox games that can be hundreds of mbs each, download videos from youtube, and carry music on their phone. And sorry, cloud will not cut it... not yet anyway. Last thing I want is to wait everytime i want to switch a song and pray that crappy att network pushes more that 50Kb/s where i am.

 

[leoment]

My biggest complaint against Windows phone 7 is how little progress has been made over the course of 1.5 years

I just got a windows phone recently, I need a keyboard, so I got an LG quantum(there is almost no choice, if you want a keyboard you can only pick between LG and Dell)

It's a first gen device, but almost no progress has been made with windows phones in more than a year!

for instance, look at the HTC radar, it seems to have lower specs than my quantum!

The lack of progress is really maddening, the only real progress made between the 1st gen and 2nd gen devices seems to be the cpu (some 2nd gen devices have 1.4 ghz cpus, instead of the 1ghz on 1st gen devices)


lack of choices and lack of progress is really not doing any favors for windows phone

I have the same phone - any complaints with the phone wrt usage though (or are you upset due to specs)? Granted WP7 has had a late start with getting premium headsets out in the wild, but I'd say getting Nokia on board as well as the Titan/Titan II are great starting places for the OS.

I hear you on the hardware front - I love having a keyboard and hope more are coming down the pipe later

 

[jabtano]

I don't see it as such sorry. the 710 isn't crap in fact it's a pretty nice solid device for the first time smart phone buyer. not only that it comes with a great set of apps. Nokia drive just to mention one. The 800 is a very sexy device for folks who don't want to have a large device. the 900 is just great looking it has a FFC an excellent regular cam with a great sensor. 4.3 is pretty much main stream right now not too big not to small. it's pre want is off the scale. 12 weeks after the 900 release she will be going to other carriers AT&T ONLY HAS A 12 week exclusive,Also this is just Nokia start in north america to say they failed is very flawed. the stock numbers are low yes but they are stable. and the call of the day is to buy and hold. you need to do more research before you call a company gone.

 

[selfcreation]

im willing to bet if Nokia made phones with 32G/63G memory ... it would sell less...

 

[nyc_rock]

Im going to go back to my original post. I did not say Nokia is a failed company, I said they are a failing company. It is not for debate. They have lost huge amounts of market share. They have laid off thousands of employees. That had to give up on Symbian and Meego. They have had no presence in the US market for years. They have bet thier future on WP.

My point was and still is, when you are making a return to a market that you basically failed in, you dont open up with an opening price point phone. You go big or you go home. Nokia should have opened up with a phone that set the standard. They didnt do that. If they dont want to offer a 32gb version then fine. Offer expandable storage. Set the bar higher. Bring a product that every user on every platform would lust after. WP is awsome. The selling point of this platform has been the software. Nokia could have brought a product that also erased all shortcomings on the hardware side. They didnt. The Lumia 900 may be a great product for WP. Its average when compared to the other platforms. And now, all the 2012 Android phones will be hitting the market. With the HD screens and dual core processors which will marginalize the 900. Strike hard and strike fast. That is what Nokia should have done and, IMHO, they didnt. Is the Lumia nice? Sure. Will it run well? No doubt. Could it have been the phone that really stakes WP as the complete platform? You bet. Did it? No.

Nokia doesnt need a phone that gets 20% of the 5% market share that WP current holds. It needed more and it could have build just that. The numbers wont lie. In a few months (too long IMO) the Lumia will be released and we will all see what the reaction is.

 

[selfcreation]

Im going to go back to my original post. I did not say Nokia is a failed company, I said they are a failing company. It is not for debate. They have lost huge amounts of market share. They have laid off thousands of employees. That had to give up on Symbian and Meego. They have had no presence in the US market for years. They have bet thier future on WP.

My point was and still is, when you are making a return to a market that you basically failed in, you dont open up with an opening price point phone. You go big or you go home. Nokia should have opened up with a phone that set the standard. They didnt do that. If they dont want to offer a 32gb version then fine. Offer expandable storage. Set the bar higher. Bring a product that every user on every platform would lust after. WP is awsome. The selling point of this platform has been the software. Nokia could have brought a product that also erased all shortcomings on the hardware side. They didnt. The Lumia 900 may be a great product for WP. Its average when compared to the other platforms. And now, all the 2012 Android phones will be hitting the market. With the HD screens and dual core processors which will marginalize the 900. Strike hard and strike fast. That is what Nokia should have done and, IMHO, they didnt. Is the Lumia nice? Sure. Will it run well? No doubt. Could it have been the phone that really stakes WP as the complete platform? You bet. Did it? No.

Nokia doesnt need a phone that gets 20% of the 5% market share that WP current holds. It needed more and it could have build just that. The numbers wont lie. In a few months (too long IMO) the Lumia will be released and we will all see what the reaction is.

actually they are not FAILING .. they already FAILED.. and now they are growing again!! they actually started gaining market shares. and making money....


and you obviously have no idea how company work. if Nokia would of came out with a HUGE phone that cost 900$ ( 300$ on contract ) after FAILING SO HARD . would you buy a 900$ phone from a company that almost bankrupted? LOL. **** NO! ..

when you are making a return to a market that you basically failed in, you dont open up with an opening price point phone.

hmm.. YES you DO!!!! or else your just lining your self up to FAIL again .. WP is a NEW OS... most people are still skeptical about WP or have NO idea what it can do... so why risk paying 900$ on a OS you might not like.. i know i wouldn't and most people as well.

they dint have expendable storage cause WP OS doesn't support it!! HELLO!
it caused more problems then rights... How many SD cards did i get before i found one that actually worked fine with my phone ??!! so after FAILING!! why would they risk an other FAILURE?!

as for the Duel-core and HD screen: WP OS doesn't support that... so Nokia couldn't of made it EVEN IF they wanted to.

not to mention WP has ZERO need for duel-core.. and EVEN IF the next WP have Duel-core .. its still gona be a full year before we start seeing WP apps/games/OS actually take advantage of it. every thing we have now would probably cost phones to run slower if we had duel-core..... ( until apps/games are programed to work with duel-core processors ) .... like when we got duel-core on PC the first time ... games and programs that dint support it ( witch was all of them ) actually ran SLOWER. duels cores with 2ghz ( 1ghz per core) would actuality only run as a 1GHZ until the apps are programed/updated to work as multithreaded applications.

as for the memory .. again . why make a 64G , 900$ phone ..when you can make a 16G, 600$ phone? and actually have MORE chance to sell the cheaper phone ( witch is working BTW )

How many people by 100,000$ ferrari cause they have 500HP .... and how many people by 10,000$ Honda civics with 100HP? .... what is the smartest business move you thinking after almost losing business?? obviously the CIVIC is the best things to sell to make quick easy $$ to regain growth in your company.

``Could it have been the phone that really stakes WP as the complete platform? You bet. Did it? `` YES, they did the most they could do Business wise and as far as specs go they did the MOST they could with in WP Operating systems requirements.



* man i could almost write a book with all theses WALLS OF TEXT*. gona call it.: How others give you headaches.

 

[athix]

holy cloud surfing batman

Good discussion O_O , my point is this....

Nokia is probably nicest overall WP device out there, that said, I totally agree about the failure of storage size (and no SD card) of WP devices. Luckily I have a focus that has a MEMORY CARD SLOT! Total Fail Nokia!

But wait.....my boss and everyone else in marketing seems to be correct about this CLOUD stuff. Despite my stiff opposition I am seeing everything go to the cloud and there will soon be no need for onboard storage of any kind. But we are not there yet, couple more years.

Not sure exactly how I feel about wifi cooking my brains from all directions but eventually as long as your little electronic device is powered on, it will be connected to an internet that will stream your songs. End of story. :'(

 

[selfcreation]

OH YEAH!! nokia is OBVIOUSLY failing!! ROLF

Nokia Lumia 800 sales are strong, gives Windows Phone a needed boost

and its not even as good as the 900..... so argue all you want , statistic prove otherwise.

 

[nyc_rock]

OH YEAH!! nokia is OBVIOUSLY failing!! ROLF

Nokia Lumia 800 sales are strong, gives Windows Phone a needed boost

and its not even as good as the 900..... so argue all you want , statistic prove otherwise.

Do they?

Lumia a loser says Euro Nokia research - SlashGear

 

[nyc_rock]

actually they are not FAILING .. they already FAILED.. and now they are growing again!! they actually started gaining market shares. and making money....


and you obviously have no idea how company work. if Nokia would of came out with a HUGE phone that cost 900$ ( 300$ on contract ) after FAILING SO HARD . would you buy a 900$ phone from a company that almost bankrupted? LOL. **** NO! ..




hmm.. YES you DO!!!! or else your just lining your self up to FAIL again .. WP is a NEW OS... most people are still skeptical about WP or have NO idea what it can do... so why risk paying 900$ on a OS you might not like.. i know i wouldn't and most people as well.

they dint have expendable storage cause WP OS doesn't support it!! HELLO!
it caused more problems then rights... How many SD cards did i get before i found one that actually worked fine with my phone ??!! so after FAILING!! why would they risk an other FAILURE?!

as for the Duel-core and HD screen: WP OS doesn't support that... so Nokia couldn't of made it EVEN IF they wanted to.

not to mention WP has ZERO need for duel-core.. and EVEN IF the next WP have Duel-core .. its still gona be a full year before we start seeing WP apps/games/OS actually take advantage of it. every thing we have now would probably cost phones to run slower if we had duel-core..... ( until apps/games are programed to work with duel-core processors ) .... like when we got duel-core on PC the first time ... games and programs that dint support it ( witch was all of them ) actually ran SLOWER. duels cores with 2ghz ( 1ghz per core) would actuality only run as a 1GHZ until the apps are programed/updated to work as multithreaded applications.

as for the memory .. again . why make a 64G , 900$ phone ..when you can make a 16G, 600$ phone? and actually have MORE chance to sell the cheaper phone ( witch is working BTW )

How many people by 100,000$ ferrari cause they have 500HP .... and how many people by 10,000$ Honda civics with 100HP? .... what is the smartest business move you thinking after almost losing business?? obviously the CIVIC is the best things to sell to make quick easy $$ to regain growth in your company.

``Could it have been the phone that really stakes WP as the complete platform? You bet. Did it? `` YES, they did the most they could do Business wise and as far as specs go they did the MOST they could with in WP Operating systems requirements.



* man i could almost write a book with all theses WALLS OF TEXT*. gona call it.: How others give you headaches.

$900 for a phone? What are you talking about? The 64gb Iphone 4S is 399 subsidised. The 32gb is 299. Verizon is selling the rezound with a $100 pair of headphones for 299.

I never said that WP needed dual core or HD screens. I said Android would be releasing those devices. Like it or not, WP will be compared to other platforms and the hardware that exists on those other platforms. And you said your Samsung supports SD cards which means that it can support SD cards. So Nokia could have figured it out. Which, by the way, would have been a huge win.

And by the way, what are you so angry about? Is this Stephen Elop?

 

[selfcreation]

Do they?

Lumia a loser says Euro Nokia research - SlashGear

lol reading that article .. YES they do!! LOL!! .... they got 2% of all sells in 1month? LOL on a BRAND new OS that no one trusted?! lol .. think you miss read that the blog .. if you read more into it you`ll notice its positive.

ALSO!! this article was written BEFORE! sales figures for the Lumia 800 where even released. !! lol this article has NO Grounds... and cant be reliable..

Quot from the guy who wrote the article :

* We’ve asked Nokia for a comment and will update as soon as the company gets back to us. Official sales figures for the Lumia 800 are yet to be released. **

then NOKIA says:

** “We have only started our journey to regain smartphone leadership, but we are pleased with the early results. The Lumia 800 is getting good traction in all six European markets where it has already launched. Initial feedback from India, Hong Kong, Russia, Singapore and Taiwan — where the Lumia 800 starting selling this week — has been very encouraging” ****

dunno what you got from his .. to me that says that NOKIA is happy with its growth and is doing good.


and gain this article compare NOKIA Wp to .. ALL OTHER Phones / OS.... not just WP like the article i showed... 2% of all phones/os are NOKIA Wp.. thats actually AMAZING!! and only in 6 country!! LOL..

thanks for helping me reinforce my point