OTG support in Windows10 Mobile!

[mprebich]

Okay, enough about Nav bar and notification centers, etc. Back on topic for me at least.

I have been doing some extensive research on this topic the last couple of days.

There is a uservoice for Windows Phone for OTG, which should definitely be linked in this topic.
Uservoice: Need USB ON-THE-GO (OTG) in Windows Phone
I've added all my remaining votes to this particular feature. I want it pretty bad.

Doing research, I've learned that the S4 does indeed support USB OTG, as found in the manufacturer's overview for the S4.

Reading further, I have learned that it is indeed the SoC that is used that determines whether or not the USB can act as OTG or not. It is either supported in the processor or not supported in the processor. Snapdragon S4 has it, the SoC used in the Lumia 635, 830, 640, 640 XL also has it. That's the Snapdragon 400 for those of you wondering. If the 400 has it, then I can only assume that all 4xx series has it, as well as higher series like 6xx and 8xx, as it would only be logical. I can guarantee that the 8xx series has it, as I have already found the phones with those models that contain OTG.

All that is left to do is for Microsoft to include support in either software or firmware updates (read, Windows 10 for Mobile) and we'll have the support we need. Microsoft, however, will need to enable support for each of these specific processors, and I don't know if they will do it for all or just the flagship models. Hopefully for all that support it. If I understand it correctly, the Snapdragon 200 will not support OTG, which means nothing for the 520/521, etc.

This has been a real headache trying to figure all this out. Only time will tell if we get it enabled. I'm holding on to the hope that we will. To me, this is certainly good news, if I'm correctly understanding all the technical white papers I've been reading lately.

It would be great if it is enabled in this next build. Please, someone post back here and let us know when you test out the next 105xx build. If it has it, I may be getting back into the Insider for my phone.

Thanks for your time to research this and post!

I've always had the same argument to Microsoft about the ability to output digital audio through USB to use an external DAC. Since both iPhone and Android have been able to do this for a few versions at least, it must be in the SoC chips in our L930s, 1520s, etc.

It is simply MS building it into the W10M.

Why is that so difficult?

 

[michail71]

Why is that so difficult?

They always seem to fall short on these deep features and focus on making things easy for "grandma". But the lack in all these deeper/advanced functionalities start adding up making this platform frustrating at times.

They can't even seem to program the Bluetooth system to work as reliably as it does on iOS and Android.

 

[colinkiama]

They always seem to fall short on these deep features and focus on making things easy for "grandma". But the lack in all these deeper/advanced functionalities start adding up making this platform frustrating at times.

They can't even seem to program the Bluetooth system to work as reliably as it does on iOS and Android.

What if I told you, they are working on making their Bluetooth more reliable now?

 

[xandros9]

What if I told you, they are working on making their Bluetooth more reliable now?

 

[Mayur Baruah]

Guys i just wanna know one thing. Will otg support in lumia 640 running on windows 10???

 

[rhapdog]

Guys i just wanna know one thing. Will otg support in lumia 640 running on windows 10???

From what we've been able to learn, it is not expected, though no one will know for sure until windows 10 for mobile is final.

 

[TLuck Sharma]

From what we've been able to learn, it is not expected, though no one will know for sure until windows 10 for mobile is final.

A thought always stuck in my mind that as it is said by Microsoft that it(W10 Mobile) is feature ready, so we can only expect many fixes in the OS, cz i think they don't want to do the same happened with W10, it's final release was very buggy. So in Mobile version they don't want to repeat this cz There are many user of W10 but W10 Mobile is still surviving for its existence, so it is their responsibility to release a stable and better version of W10 Mobile cz everyone is keeping eyes on W10 Mobile right now! So all these features we can expect in further GDRs. So that any new feature won't break the OS's stability as it can take a lot time to fix it again.(anything can happen while implementing new things) It is only my thought only! What do you think about it?

 

[colinkiama]

A thought always stuck in my mind that as it is said by Microsoft that it(W10 Mobile) is feature ready, so we can only expect many fixes in the OS, cz i think they don't want to do the same happened with W10, it's final release was very buggy. So in Mobile version they don't want to repeat this cz There are many user of W10 but W10 Mobile is still surviving for its existence, so it is their responsibility to release a stable and better version of W10 Mobile cz everyone is keeping eyes on W10 Mobile right now! So all these features we can expect in further GDRs. So that any new feature won't break the OS's stability as it can take a lot time to fix it again.(anything can happen while implementing new things) It is only my thought only! What do you think about it?

It's not feature ready. It's ALMOST feature ready.

 

[TLuck Sharma]

It's not feature ready. It's ALMOST feature ready.

Exactly! But OTG support is not THAT feature which will fill the gap between "Feature ready" and "Almost Feature ready", I guess!

 

[rhapdog]

It's not feature ready. It's ALMOST feature ready.

Exactly! But OTG support is not THAT feature which will fill the gap between "Feature ready" and "Almost Feature ready", I guess!

Doesn't matter. OTG will be available. It's a hardware issue for the direction that Microsoft is wanting to go. They define the OTG as being more robust than the half-baked way that Android and iOS handle it. The hardware installed on current phones will not be able to take advantage of the higher and loftier goals that Microsoft has for OTG, which they are calling "Dual-Mode USB" to prevent confusion from it being the way Android and iOS does it. It will do everything iOS and Android does, and a whole lot more. It's going to be more like PC functionality instead of smart phone OTG.

It's taken reading a lot of white papers to get at this, but this is what I've come up with.

You can't hook up a 2TB HDD to an Android phone or iPad with OTG. You'll be able to with Windows 10. 'Nuff said. (not to mention promised printer support, etc.)

 

[TLuck Sharma]

Doesn't matter. OTG will be available. It's a hardware issue for the direction that Microsoft is wanting to go. They define the OTG as being more robust than the half-baked way that Android and iOS handle it. The hardware installed on current phones will not be able to take advantage of the higher and loftier goals that Microsoft has for OTG, which they are calling "Dual-Mode USB" to prevent confusion from it being the way Android and iOS does it. It will do everything iOS and Android does, and a whole lot more. It's going to be more like PC functionality instead of smart phone OTG.

It's taken reading a lot of white papers to get at this, but this is what I've come up with.

You can't hook up a 2TB HDD to an Android phone or iPad with OTG. You'll be able to with Windows 10. 'Nuff said. (not to mention promised printer support, etc.)

Whoa! This is gonna tear ios and android apart. That's pretty cooooooool. Yeah then a new hard is required! What if they can do li'l bit with present device, like OTG support with limited functionality? Like only 32GB pen drive is supported!

 

[rhapdog]

The 32GB support is due to the limitation of iOS and Android only being able to read FAT16 and FAT32. They are unable to handle exFAT up to 128GB, and unable to do NTFS. Unable to do other file systems like MacOS/X, Linux, and Windows is why they have the 32GB limitation for OTG. Other limitations are hardware based. Some limitations are OS based.

Still, I would love to see USB mouse/keyboard OTG. Microsoft wants the port, however, to handle more than just USB but also handle HDMI out and DisplayPort out from the USB port, much like what your laptop's USB 3 port can do currently (with the proper drivers.)

Yes, it will blow others out of the water, but with Apple's marketing, it will take serious marketing effort on the part of Microsoft for people to believe Apple doesn't do the same thing only better.

 

[tgp]

You can't hook up a 2TB HDD to an Android phone or iPad with OTG. You'll be able to with Windows 10. 'Nuff said. (not to mention promised printer support, etc.)

The 32GB support is due to the limitation of iOS and Android only being able to read FAT16 and FAT32. They are unable to handle exFAT up to 128GB, and unable to do NTFS. Unable to do other file systems like MacOS/X, Linux, and Windows is why they have the 32GB limitation for OTG.

I'd believe you, except I just did it! rly: I hooked up a 2TB powered external USB 3.0 drive to my Nexus 6 with a USB OTG cable. It showed up in the file explorer, and I was able to browse the files on it.

Other limitations are hardware based. Some limitations are OS based.

My Nexus 6 has neither of those limitations!

 

[rhapdog]

I'd believe you, except I just did it! rly: I hooked up a 2TB powered external USB 3.0 drive to my Nexus 6 with a USB OTG cable. It showed up in the file explorer, and I was able to browse the files on it.



My Nexus 6 has neither of those limitations!

My father tried that as well. Writing to the file system caused corruption. What file system is on that drive?

 

[tgp]

My father tried that as well. Writing to the file system caused corruption. What file system is on that drive?

Here is a screenshot of the USB drive's Properties from a PC:



Sometimes you have to use a 3rd party app on Android to get it to recognize the drive, such as USB OTG Helper or Stick Mount. It is not always 100% seamless initially, but once you have the app installed (if necessary), it is.

One other issue I had is that it didn't seem to work with a USB extension cable. I had to eliminate the extension cable and plug the drive's cable directly into my OTG cable. But then it worked perfectly, and the drive is even USB 3.0.

 

[rhapdog]

tgp, you know I appreciate your input. However, you're saying your Nexus doesn't have the limitations, but only give the example of the HDD.

Sometimes you have to use a 3rd party app on Android to get it to recognize the drive, such as USB OTG Helper or Stick Mount. It is not always 100% seamless initially, but once you have the app installed (if necessary), it is.

That's why you were able to do it. You made modifications through apps.

That's because Android needs an app to overcome the basic OS limitation. This will all be built into the Windows 10 OS, which means instead of having to go through certain apps, any app you have installed that can save files should be able to save to the HDD. Something you can't do on standard Android. Not all apps can save it to the HDD. Like I said before, the NTFS file system is a limitation of the OS. What you have done is to install an app where the app has the ability to read NTFS. It's not the same thing as the OS recognizing it. Careful with it, though, because not all those apps that can READ can write without corrupting the data. That's what happened to my dad.

As far as hardware limitations, are you saying you are able to use USB-OTG to hook up a DisplayPort monitor? That's what Microsoft is doing with it. That's why the new hardware requirements. HDMI Monitor even? Printers? LAN adapters? Routers? Video Capture device? How about a USB based magnetic strip card reader? Card readers for iOS and Android hook into the audio port (because it can't be supported with USB-OTG with their implementation), read the magnetic strip and send the data through an audio signal much like old dial-up modems. USB would be more efficient. Microsoft's vision will enable that functionality. Hand scanners (laser style) and everything will be available.

Dual-mode USB, as Microsoft is implementing it, is going to be quite different from the USB-OTG implementation that Android and iOS has. It's more then just hooking up keyboard, mouse, and storage devices. That's not what it is about. Sure, you will be able to hook up a 6TB storage device with Windows 10 for Mobile with the appropriate Dual-mode USB hardware, but it's more about providing way more functionality and a wider range of products than it is about providing access to USB storage.

 

[tgp]

That's why you were able to do it. You made modifications through apps.

Oh OK, I didn't realize you were bringing it down to this level! By reading your post, I understood that it wasn't possible at all. I actually believed you! I've hooked up hard drives before, but not as big as 2TB. I right away decided to try it since I had a 2TB drive available.

You are correct that NTFS support is not built in to Android. Well, technically the OS supports it, but it is not enabled in the kernel by default. This is probably due to NTFS being Microsoft's proprietary file system. From what I understand, the app essentially flips the switch in the kernel.

Some OEM phones do support it out of the box, but that's due to the manufacturer enabling it. Nexus is 100% pure, stock Android. And for the record, I know that WP users are loath to use apps (probably because we're not used to them being available!), but it really only takes a few seconds.

Either way, W10 will fix everything! :grin:

 

[rhapdog]

And for the record, I know that WP users are loath to use apps (probably because we're not used to them being available!), but it really only takes a few seconds.

Nah, I like using apps. I just don't think I should have to have an app to enable something that should be built-in, like Bluetooth, SD card support, support for my OfficeJet Wi-Fi printer, support for my DisplayPort monitor, support for my ailing grandma, etc. Okay, just joking about the ailing grandma part. I don't have a grandma any more.

I just won't get it all on my current phone.

But at least I have the printer support already. Took an app, though. :wink:

 

[tgp]

Nah, I like using apps. I just don't think I should have to have an app to enable something that should be built-in, like Bluetooth, SD card support, support for my OfficeJet Wi-Fi printer, support for my DisplayPort monitor, support for my ailing grandma, etc.

Hey, at least Android users have the option of installing an app for OTG hard drive support! :winktongue:

I think it is only WP users that complain about using apps, again, probably because we're used to not having them. WP users do not automatically think "There's an app for that" like iOS and Android users. Apple started the app craze, and Google exacerbated it. But hey, that's the way the mobile ecosystem is, WP included. Some of that will ease with W10M, but I'm sure there will still be plenty of app requirement there.

Hang on, the next months will be an exciting ride! :grin:

 

[Krystianpants]

Hey, at least Android users have the option of installing an app for OTG hard drive support! :winktongue:

I think it is only WP users that complain about using apps, again, probably because we're used to not having them. WP users do not automatically think "There's an app for that" like iOS and Android users. Apple started the app craze, and Google exacerbated it. But hey, that's the way the mobile ecosystem is, WP included. Some of that will ease with W10M, but I'm sure there will still be plenty of app requirement there.

Hang on, the next months will be an exciting ride! :grin:

Yeah android requires an app for flashlight while ios and windows 10 have it built in. Small differences.