ProShot camera app.

[gpobernardo]

Are you really using screenshots to make a photography comparison?

The ProShot developer just explaing two posts above yours what could happen with Viewfinder... Screenshots are for games, not photography....

If you read carefully what has been posted, I used the Zoom app in my phone to view the enlarged version of the image already taken with those different camera apps and then took a screenshot out of the Zoom app. Hence, whatever the method used in extracting the image from my phone and posting them here did not have any effect on the analysis of the performance of the camera apps indicated above since the method only comes after the shots have already been taken, i.e. if I copy the photos to my laptop and then use Adobe Photoshop CC to examine the _highres.jpg files, the results will still be the same.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

P.S.
Screenshots can be used for a lot of purposes, from bragging high scores in "games" to providing key information in debugging apps, as well as in giving demonstrations for prototypes in remote-work. Let us not underestimate the tools laid down before us. :smile:

 

[Rodrigo Mendes]

If you read carefully what has been posted, I used the Zoom app in my phone to view the enlarged version of the image already taken with those different camera apps and then took a screenshot out of the Zoom app. Hence, whatever the method used in extracting the image from my phone and posting them here did not have any effect on the analysis of the performance of the camera apps indicated above since the method only comes after the shots have already been taken, i.e. if I copy the photos to my laptop and then use Adobe Photoshop CC to examine the _highres.jpg files, the results will still be the same.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

P.S.
Screenshots can be used for a lot of purposes, from bragging high scores in "games" to providing key information in debugging apps, as well as in giving demonstrations for prototypes in remote-work. Let us not underestimate the tools laid down before us. :smile:

Ok, now I get it. Thanks!

But I still don't think it's the best way to make a fair comparison, even with possible same results on file, not screenshot.

Anyway, JPEG on Lumia is the worst thing in the world, the post process just ruined everything. Proshot have the best results, but not fix the system problem. I use only Rawer to extract my pictures on fast share (not perfect, have a lot of noise and bad color profile, but 80% of time WAY BETTER than JPEG compression) in smartphone or Lightroom on PC (here I have almost cheap DSLR results).

Hope Microsoft change the algorithms or SDK on Windows 10 (right now I have it on my old Lumia 920 and the results are very good in every conditions, pictures MUCH BETTER than my father's L830 or mine L930). Right now JPEG pictures on WP are useless and give us really bad results. Sometimes even smartphones that have bad c?meras take better pictures than me.

Still that, like I say, ProShot have better general results than others, especially the new Lumia Camera, wich is horrible in certain conditions. On ProShot looks like colors fidelity are much better preserved and the contrast level is not that agressive than others apps. And night pictures, with or without flash, ProShot on auto try to use low ISO. It's not what happening with others apps too.

So, I really think that ProShot is the best answer for photography on Lumia if you ignore or don't like DNG files.

 

[gpobernardo]

Ok, now I get it. Thanks!

But I still don't think it's the best way to make a fair comparison, even with possible same results on file, not screenshot.

Anyway, JPEG on Lumia is the worst thing in the world, the post process just ruined everything. Proshot have the best results, but not fix the system problem. I use only Rawer to extract my pictures on fast share (not perfect, have a lot of noise and bad color profile, but 80% of time WAY BETTER than JPEG compression) in smartphone or Lightroom on PC (here I have almost cheap DSLR results).

Hope Microsoft change the algorithms or SDK on Windows 10 (right now I have it on my old Lumia 920 and the results are very good in every conditions, pictures MUCH BETTER than my father's L830 or mine L930). Right now JPEG pictures on WP are useless and give us really bad results. Sometimes even smartphones that have bad c?meras take better pictures than me.

Still that, like I say, ProShot have better general results than others, especially the new Lumia Camera, wich is horrible in certain conditions. On ProShot looks like colors fidelity are much better preserved and the contrast level is not that agressive than others apps. And night pictures, with or without flash, ProShot on auto try to use low ISO. It's not what happening with others apps too.

So, I really think that ProShot is the best answer for photography on Lumia if you ignore or don't like DNG files.

You're welcome

I agree that ProShot is a nice camera - I have nothing against it actually and I support the developer in his efforts. But the developer, RiseUpGames, may correct me if I got this wrong - that ProShot uses the Lumia SDK for imaging. I'm not a developer nor a programmer, but I think I remember this being mentioned somewhere in the past.

It would be nice to see comparisons of images using the same device but using different camera apps. I don't have an L920, an L830 and an L930, but wouldn't the comparison be more just if we compared the images taken with different camera apps but only using one device? It's a bit tricky to compare ProShot images from the L920 with Lumia Camera images from the L830 and L930. :smile:

But yes, I'm also hoping that Windows 10 will bring imaging improvements to our current phones, taking into account the inherent hardware limitations.

 

[Rodrigo Mendes]

A old comparison that I have here.

Lumia Camera (new version)

ProShot

Like you guys can see, the results on ProShot are much much better in this situation. Yeah, Lumia Camera (new version) is crisper, but that's a result of a very agressive and bad post processing. It's not correctly. Look at bad contrast levels and colors on Lumia Camera.

OFFTOPIC

Now the real power not unleashed on Lumia Camera. The DNG file with no changes. I have only opened on Lightroom and saved a 10MPX JPEG.

 

[RiseUpGames]

You're welcome

I agree that ProShot is a nice camera - I have nothing against it actually and I support the developer in his efforts. But the developer, RiseUpGames, may correct me if I got this wrong - that ProShot uses the Lumia SDK for imaging. I'm not a developer nor a programmer, but I think I remember this being mentioned somewhere in the past.

It would be nice to see comparisons of images using the same device but using different camera apps. I don't have an L920, an L830 and an L930, but wouldn't the comparison be more just if we compared the images taken with different camera apps but only using one device? It's a bit tricky to compare ProShot images from the L920 with Lumia Camera images from the L830 and L930. :smile:

But yes, I'm also hoping that Windows 10 will bring imaging improvements to our current phones, taking into account the inherent hardware limitations.

ProShot only uses the Lumia Imaging SDK to super-sample the high res (20/41MP) images down to 5/8/10/12MP, or for sharpening. The rest (filters, shadow recovery, etc) are algorithms written by me

On the subject of color, I have a little secret about ProShot to share. In order to get Burst Mode to work properly on the WP8 SDK, ProShot uses a hardware trick. This trick limits the resolution of the final image, but it completely bypasses the standard image processing algorithm, and saves an unfiltered snapshot directly off the image sensor. The resolution of this photo matches the resolution of your phone's screen, so if your device is 720p or higher, it's actually perfectly usable for instagram.

 

[Rodrigo Mendes]

ProShot only uses the Lumia Imaging SDK to super-sample the high res (20/41MP) images down to 5/8/10/12MP, or for sharpening. The rest (filters, shadow recovery, etc) are algorithms written by me

On the subject of color, I have a little secret about ProShot to share. In order to get Burst Mode to work properly on the WP8 SDK, ProShot uses a hardware trick. This trick limits the resolution of the final image, but it completely bypasses the standard image processing algorithm, and saves an unfiltered snapshot directly off the image sensor. The resolution of this photo matches the resolution of your phone's screen, so if your device is 720p or higher, it's actually perfectly usable for instagram.

Just like old Lumias? Like Lumia 720, 820 or 920? Because the snapshot is really close or the same than final Picture on these smarts.

I have a question. Don't you have any interest on DNG files or there's no way to work with it? Because would be perfect if ProShot could manipulate DNG files to save on JPEG.

 

[gpobernardo]

ProShot only uses the Lumia Imaging SDK to super-sample the high res (20/41MP) images down to 5/8/10/12MP, or for sharpening. The rest (filters, shadow recovery, etc) are algorithms written by me

On the subject of color, I have a little secret about ProShot to share. In order to get Burst Mode to work properly on the WP8 SDK, ProShot uses a hardware trick. This trick limits the resolution of the final image, but it completely bypasses the standard image processing algorithm, and saves an unfiltered snapshot directly off the image sensor. The resolution of this photo matches the resolution of your phone's screen, so if your device is 720p or higher, it's actually perfectly usable for instagram.

Thanks for the clarification, RiseUpGames, and for the tip! :smile:

 

[RiseUpGames]

Just like old Lumias? Like Lumia 720, 820 or 920? Because the snapshot is really close or the same than final Picture on these smarts.

I have a question. Don't you have any interest on DNG files or there's no way to work with it? Because would be perfect if ProShot could manipulate DNG files to save on JPEG.

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand what you mean by old Lumias, but it's not a screenshot, it's a frame pulled directly off the image sensor

The sad news is that there is no way to get DNG files, that API is private. Even sadder is it looks like that API is going to continue to be private in Windows 10.

On the plus side, the new Windows 10 Camera API is going to be MUCH BETTER than the 8.0 API that was used to make ProShot. This fall is going to be exciting

 

[Rodrigo Mendes]

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand what you mean by old Lumias, but it's not a screenshot, it's a frame pulled directly off the image sensor

The sad news is that there is no way to get DNG files, that API is private. Even sadder is it looks like that API is going to continue to be private in Windows 10.

On the plus side, the new Windows 10 Camera API is going to be MUCH BETTER than the 8.0 API that was used to make ProShot. This fall is going to be exciting

Thanks for this explanation!!

I mean that old Lumias, the first ones, they have less agressive post process than Lumia 930 or Lumia 830. Like I say, I certain circunstances, I have better pictures on Lumia 920 than Lumia 930.

I'm exciting about Windows 10 and photography as well..

 

[mesamit]

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand what you mean by old Lumias, but it's not a screenshot, it's a frame pulled directly off the image sensor

The sad news is that there is no way to get DNG files, that API is private. Even sadder is it looks like that API is going to continue to be private in Windows 10.

On the plus side, the new Windows 10 Camera API is going to be MUCH BETTER than the 8.0 API that was used to make ProShot. This fall is going to be exciting

wow that's great ...can you tell us more about these new improved API in windows 10...... :smile:

off topic: uploading images through an app in wp8 and wp8.1 degrades image quality...is that improved in windows mobile 10 ?

 

[Rodrigo Mendes]

wow that's great ...can you tell us more about these new improved API in windows 10...... :smile:

off topic: uploading images through an app in wp8 and wp8.1 degrades image quality...is that improved in windows mobile 10 ?

Which app you talking about? Because I think it's nothing to do with Windows Phone. I can send my full 20mpx files to OneDrive or upload on a website. But some sites/apps have limitations because they not allow large files. Happens even on a PC.

 

[mesamit]

Which app you talking about? Because I think it's nothing to do with Windows Phone. I can send my full 20mpx files to OneDrive or upload on a website. But some sites/apps have limitations because they not allow large files. Happens even on a PC.

facebook, messenger does that......i forgot where but i think someone in forum had posted that developer like rudy huyn has mentioned available api is to blame for poor quality image upload.....

 

[RiseUpGames]

Thanks for this explanation!!

I mean that old Lumias, the first ones, they have less agressive post process than Lumia 930 or Lumia 830. Like I say, I certain circunstances, I have better pictures on Lumia 920 than Lumia 930.

I'm exciting about Windows 10 and photography as well..

Oh yeah, I think it was the Lumia black firmware that ruined low light shots; I don't know why the yellow cast was never fixed :/ I remember really liking the native images out of my 920 before one of the major firmware updates (maybe it was Cyan?)

wow that's great ...can you tell us more about these new improved API in windows 10...... :smile:

off topic: uploading images through an app in wp8 and wp8.1 degrades image quality...is that improved in windows mobile 10 ?

I can't talk about it too much without giving away where I am going with the new ProShot :wink:, but it's quite an improvement over the WP8.0 API. Th improved pipeline will make camera apps faster, easier access to "raw" (note: not RAW / DNG) image data means quicker processing / filters / shot-to-shot times, and added abilities will allow camera apps to do a lot more interesting stuff with the data they pull off the image sensor.

As far as uploading images are concerned, I'm not sure if that is improved, it's up to the app to handle the upload. When you hit the share button and send an image to email, the image will be compressed. But, if you send the image to OneDrive, it will grab the full res image.

 

[Breever]

I can't talk about it too much without giving away where I am going with the new ProShot :wink:, but it's quite an improvement over the WP8.0 API. Th improved pipeline will make camera apps faster, easier access to "raw" (note: not RAW / DNG) image data means quicker processing / filters / shot-to-shot times, and added abilities will allow camera apps to do a lot more interesting stuff with the data they pull off the image sensor.

Intriguing!

 

[Rodrigo Mendes]

facebook, messenger does that......i forgot where but i think someone in forum had posted that developer like rudy huyn has mentioned available api is to blame for poor quality image upload.....

Exaclty, but there's nothing to do with Windows Phone and it's not a exclusive thing about apps for Windows Phone. This is a API limitation because Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and others don't want larger files on servers. They are not good for fast share.

 

[jabtano]

By far the best camera app.

 

[alphablue597]

Is there any chance to add panorama mode, because we don't have any app to take panorama photos, both photosynth and Lumia panorama are discontinued? Thank you in advance.

 

[RaRa85]

Looking forward to what's coming for Windows 10 Mobile and the new app. It's been a while so I'll have to read from a while back to catch up on what I've missed. Rocking the Sony Xperia Z3 still and hoping to upgrade ASAP to the Lumia 950/950XL (I'm not picky ). Just sharing some controlled situation snaps from the house on the old Lumia 920. I will never sell that phone.On the first three shots I'm actually using the light from my Xperia Z3 screen for the lighting at varying distances and 4 second exposure. The last picture uses more light from the kitchen.All if these are unedited.

Sent from my D6616 using Tapatalk

 

[HaibaneReki]

I've read somewhere that the Win10 imaging SDKs are now available to developers - exciting things are coming

 

[RaRa85]

I've read somewhere that the Win10 imaging SDKs are now available to developers - exciting things are coming

That's great. Can't wait to see what it entails and what developers do with it.