So What About That Re-org?

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a5cent

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As per the reorg. Once you got yourself the Andromeda OS to which the GUI is just a simple component that runs only a selected devices which require such GUI, it makes no sense to keep Windows in the front row. Windows will simply become a GUI for Andromeda. Plain and simple.

No. Windows will not become a "GUI" for some independent OS. This is nonesense.

Andromeda IS Windows. They are the same thing. Windows already is configurable in the way Andromeda intends to be, but only for developers at MS. The goal of Andromeda is to take this compile-time configurability and preserve it untill installation-time.
 

a5cent

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For now, yes. :)
Andromeda as is, is a short term goal for MS. Why would you call something "Windows" if it runs on IoT devices without even a screen!? Why would you call something Windows, that has no Windows to display at all?
What we call it is irrelevant. What matters is what it IS or IS NOT. Andromeda is not a separate OS that is distinct from Windows, nor will it become that. That is all I was disputing.
 

nate0

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@Gregorius Magnus
Why do you believe Andromeda to be a temporary goal and that Windows would become the gui layer for an OS build (maybe Andromeda)?
@a5cent
I'm curious where your confidence in how you understand and know Microsoft, it's OS components, and underlying structure comes from? I read any of your posts when I come across them...
 

a5cent

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I'm curious where your confidence in how you understand and know Microsoft, it's OS components, and underlying structure comes from? I read any of your posts when I come across them...
I'm a software engineer. I've spent a large part of my career teaching other engineers how to work with and understand software development and MS' OS technologies. I also regularly communicate with engineers in MS' OS and devdiv divisions.

While I have a solid understanding of the technology, I'm not privy to goals that are set at the highest levels of management. However, just understanding the economics and technical ramifications of software development is enough to rule out many of the missunderstandings that permeate WCentral, even those that relate to strategy.
 

ghostshade

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Cloud only and the Ai future sounds grand and fresh but its really just a fresh paint onto the old mainframe idea of the 1970s.

I for one has no love for that concept at all.

Not to mention that IoT is a security nightmare and will be prohibited at several companies due to that fact.

Cloud storage like onedrive is also prohibited due to security and other more controlled server solutions are used instead.

Cortana is a joke outside of the US and even if it was not, its one of the first things that are removed alongside the windows store due to company policy settings.

Perhaps i am biased but outside of the renting of servers via Azure for material that is not restricted i see very little use for the cloud first hype.
 
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Long Xuyen

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Bajan I agree with you but add a couple of riders. WM was doing ok, not great but ok, outside the USA and it gave an entry point that has now been lost. Perhaps cloud stuff is sexy in the USA but in many other countries the phone comms are simply inadequate. Here in Australia we have MANY blackspots and wireless is just not on while landline speeds are crap. So while nutty Nadella focuses on the US, he will lose much of the rest of the world's cash.
 

Long Xuyen

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See my comment below. Many countries have poor cooms, poorer than the US, but they spend cash that Nadella is deliberately foregoing ..... or is hw going to build our ITC backbone for us?
 

Long Xuyen

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A lot of us on mobile devices you say? And how many of them are running a MS OS? Stuff all I suspect and, when these devices die, what will replace them? The not-yet andromeda? Do not hold your breath.
 
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@Gregorius Magnus
Why do you believe Andromeda to be a temporary goal and that Windows would become the gui layer for an OS build (maybe Andromeda)?
Because Andromeda, having Windows become something modular is just a tool for Microsoft to then build whatever they want from those modules. Now it is the time for decomposition and then comes constructing different things. When Andromeda is done, it will be basically a modular Windows. But out of those modules "Windows" itself, the GUI will become a single module that you won't see in either self-driving cars, the thermostat, or in Amazon's Alexa. It will be non-existent, while Andromeda will still be powering those devices. There is no sense in calling those devices "Windows"-powered, as there are no windows being rendered whatsoever. This is why I say Windows will become the GUI component of Andromeda, hence it is sensible to have it placed inside the organisation, where belongs.
 
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What we call it is irrelevant. What matters is what it IS or IS NOT. Andromeda is not a separate OS that is distinct from Windows, nor will it become that. That is all I was disputing.

Okay, so if it is irrelevant what we call something, then what is behind something that you name is also irrelevant. Under these terms you are indeed right, no matter what you say.
 
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Cloud storage like onedrive is also prohibited due to security and other more controlled server solutions are used instead.

I see otherwise. I see commercial cloud storage as the supervised way of storing things. There are a lot of things that one could hold more safe in any commercial could such as Azure than some local manifestation. Think about all the political affairs that are going on in some local databases. While when having something in the cloud or even done through cloud-driven processes would give no way to primitive data manipulation. Cloud could easily become the tool against third-world political manipulation and so.
 

a5cent

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Okay, so if it is irrelevant what we call something, then what is behind something that you name is also irrelevant. Under these terms you are indeed right, no matter what you say.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Whatever it is, it changes nothing about the fact that your statement...

"Windows will simply become a GUI for Andromeda.

...makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's all I'm saying.


  1. Windows will remain the one and only OS MS develops, there will be no separate/distinct OS beyond that.
  2. Assuming Andromeda OS is even a thing (right now nothing points to it being its own thing), it will be as distinct from W10 as W10M was from W10, i.e. not at all.
  3. Compared to the whole 12GB of features and functionality that we call Windows, the GUI is absolutely minuscule. If any modern version of Windows requires a desktop GUI, that will be delivered by CShell and the UWP, NOT by Windows as a whole!
  4. I could go on criticizing how that statement makes no sense whatsoever, but I'll leave it at that.
 
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I have no idea what you're trying to say. Whatever it is, it changes nothing about the fact that your statement...

I can see that.

...makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's all I'm saying.

Let's assume it does not! and I'll just reflect on your list.

  1. Let's assume we start at your second point which simply puts this first point out of the question.
  2. Okay, let's assume that Andromeda OS is a thing, otherwise nothing really makes sense at Microsoft, not even the things that we don't assume but know for a fact, such as Windows 10 Lean.
  3. You could have just bundled yourself CShell and UWP under the name Windows and make sense of my previous statement.
  4. You could, but it just make no sense to include it in a list.

So basically you have two points made in the above list and that is:

  • Andromeda will be distinct of Windows 10.
  • Any Windows GUI will be powered by CShell and UWP.

First statement is obviously wrong, since Andromeda consists of the decomposed modules of Windows 10 itself. Or rather Windows 10 as it is to be within 2 years (hence the short-term description of the project) will be the OS composing of the same modules Andromeda has. Andromeda will probably have more modules than what Windows 10 is to be consisting of. You can't be serious about saying that Microsoft is aiming for having to maintain once again two separate OSs, Andromeda and Windows side-by-side without turning Windows 10 into its Andromeda OS itself!

Second statement is almost right. Only you use the term "Windows as whole". You probably came up with this because you simply refuse to accept my terminology; there won't be a "Windows as a whole", but a "Windows". This is exactly what I am saying. You cannot brand an OS as "Windows as a whole". Windows will become a desktop GUI (or a SKU for Andromeda if you will) as you say built up of CShell and UWP. And this was exactly the other thing I just said before. That this SChell UWP will be a simply a GUI for Andromeda that could even be replaced by something else not even making it a Windows, but a Circles, still running Andromeda under the hood.

And when I say Windows will become a GUI, I don't mean the code it is running on obviously, but the meaning "Windows" will cover for Microsoft, and hence the reorg.Obviously you will have different experiences on "Windows" than what you'd have on a thermostat or on a fridge LCD or what-have-you. So it makes good sense to separate these things when decisions are being made in regards to UWP, CShell, some effects, a master-slave UI pattern, a hover effect etc... Windows will not have to deal with whatever changes come by the UWP theme. It will have to focus on having a Tabs experience and a Timeline functionality, as that is what the desktop OS is about. Not Acrylic stuff. Think of it as by decomposing Windows to Andromeda comes with the opportunity and the requirement of distinguishing its functional layers as well. Similar to the way you have 3-5-layer web application design, you will get a better layer-based OS. To this OS, the upper-most layer is what makes it Windows. Not the file-system accessing layer.
 

fatclue_98

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Why are you guys arguing over something we know absolutely nothing of? When did conjecture and innuendo (not the Italian suppository) become fact?
 
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