Surface Phone : When? The Answer

[Drael646464]

Running an inbuilt android emulation is what accelerated the death of the bb10 platform. Running a specific emulator would be a self-sabotage of UWP, which is a still nascent platform. It would be a really bad move, and show a complete lack of faith in the, utterly central to the future of windows, UWP platform.

There's also no real need. All the major social apps are UWP, and there are plenty of plans in place to build on the growth UWP is already experiencing. AND the average person uses 4-6 apps.

Lastly a folding phone featuring win32 emulation, is not anything we know for sure is coming soon. A consumer product like that could be a decade off. It may come soon, and it may feature win32. But the ultimate surface product I think people are imagining is based on graphene screen tech, that initially only enterprise will be able to afford to purchase.

If it does come soon, is cheaper/not a true folding screen, and has win32 - bluestacks and other android emulators are kind of a mess. I've never actually been able to run any of them without crashing, on any device. I think the last thing any person will want to do is rely on them.

Especially when full windows software for basic tasks, like listening to music, browsing, watching, e-mail, basic documents programs, video etc, are vastly superior compared to mobile software.

 

[kaktus1389]

Surface Phone must use the newest hardware technology!

If the Surface Phone came out Dec 2017 hardware must be: Everything my Lumia 950 XL had +

- Snapdragon 836
- 6GB RAM
- 64GB UFS v2
- MicroSDXC UHS I
- 6th generation Purview Camera
- IP68 Certified
- QHD 1440p Flip display
- Gorilla glass 5
- 4000 mAh battery 3rd gen (Li-Medal)

If the Surface Phone comes out 6 months later May 2018 hardware must be:

- Snapdragon 845
- 8GB RAM
- 128GB UFS v2
- MicroSDXC UHS II
- 7th generation Purview Camera
- IP68 Certified
- UHD 2160p Flip display
- Gorilla glass 6
- 4000 mAh battery 3rd gen (Li-Medal)

Specs ONLY go up every year! Microsoft must have best of the best of the time!

every one keep talking about "Snapdragon 835 & 4GB of RAM" is absolutely old in the upcoming months. Even Samsung upcoming Note 8 is using "Snapdragon 836 & 6GB of RAM"......so MSFT must have premium specs!

My opinion

Sent from Lumia 950XL

Man I adore your optimism but it's not all about specs here and from what we've heard we likely won't see a Surface Phone before 2019 and even then it's not sure that we'll see one. Not sure how familiar you are with MS's policies about mobile right now but any news that are not coming from Microsoft directly are just rumors that have been around since 2016. From the information that editors of Windows Central had early last year we were hoping for late 2017, but that's just not going to happen.

If I recall correctly Daniel mentioned once that all he got from a MS source regarding Surface Phone was "keyboard". This may or may not be connected but a while ago MSPowerUser posted a picture of cancelled device with touchscreen and a BlackBerry-ish keyboard.

EDIT: It was from 2012 so apparently it's not what I first thought it was.

 

[imsai0]

As long as the Surface Phone can access Android API level 26 Apps would be fantastic!

I hate using my Edge browser for all my Banking and other apps on my Lumia 950 XL!! Since all my Banking apps and alot other apps left Win10M platform last month...so pissed and disappointed with the Win10M apps situation.....Apps are very important!! I have been with Microsoft Mobile OS since WM5.0 days 11 years ago!

This is why I'm in this forum!! See what future I have with Microsoft Mobile OS.

If the Surface Phone happens but no apps and no way to run Android apps.....I'll have to leave Win10M platform for Android 8! I don't want to but what choice do I have? .....NO iOS11? NO ....Redstone 3/4/CShell Maybe if there is Android apps support? I'm so frustrated....

What to do if Surface Phone doesn't happen?

Buy Google Pixel 2 XXL? Run future MS Arrow 4 on Android 8 OS and try to keep all my 11 years of MSFT Services intact somehow? I never used iPhone or Android.......I'm at the end of my rope.

Is MSFT "Arrow" are only alternative to Surface Phone if there is no launch?

Arrow launcher

Sent from Lumia 950XL

seems u have messed up everything... w10m is dead in the water.. Cshell is the future which is full windows 10

Running an inbuilt android emulation is what accelerated the death of the bb10 platform. Running a specific emulator would be a self-sabotage of UWP, which is a still nascent platform. It would be a really bad move, and show a complete lack of faith in the, utterly central to the future of windows, UWP platform.

There's also no real need. All the major social apps are UWP, and there are plenty of plans in place to build on the growth UWP is already experiencing. AND the average person uses 4-6 apps.

I understand. third party apps are never gonna attract consumers for sure.we have seen that with wp

Lastly a folding phone featuring win32 emulation, is not anything we know for sure is coming soon. A consumer product like that could be a decade off. It may come soon, and it may feature win32. But the ultimate surface product I think people are imagining is based on graphene screen tech, that initially only enterprise will be able to afford to purchase.

If it does come soon, is cheaper/not a true folding screen, and has win32 - bluestacks and other android emulators are kind of a mess. I've never actually been able to run any of them without crashing, on any device. I think the last thing any person will want to do is rely on them.

their is no real innovation in smartphones and it will never be. ms parents as well as lg & samsung's activities say that the folding screen is the future. it may be made of graphene or anything folding tech.

Especially when full windows software for basic tasks, like listening to music, browsing, watching, e-mail, basic documents programs, video etc, are vastly superior compared to mobile software.

these are already there in windows store. unfortunately . thats surely not helping ms. they have to try different which is the surface phone. Finally trendy apps & attractive hardware is the key of surface phone's success

 

[Drael646464]

I understand. third party apps are never gonna attract consumers for sure.we have seen that with wp

There are many reasons one might say windows phone has been less successful. They would all be guesses, unless anyone wants to present any data or proof.

I don't think third party apps are a bad thing. The mi band third party apps on android and windows phone are superior to the hardware makers app. there are a host of youtube clients on windows that are far better than the native android youtube app.

People don't even check the processing speed of the phones they buy. Consumers don't make complicated informed decisions. As such its very hard to pin specific things on a products failure or success.

It's roughly as hard as working out why beards are in now, but shaved was in ten years ago. people are odd creatures. Marketers and lay people will have you believe that some complex user discernment goes into product success or failure. Its murkier and more psychological than that. It has more to do with marketing, cultural movements than just something as simple as whether a certain app is made by one person or another.

ms parents as well as lg & samsung's activities say that the folding screen is the future. it may be made of graphene or anything folding tech.

graphene, which is what flexible screens are made of, is incredibly expensive to produce. The tiny scrolling screen Samsung demo'd back in 2013 cost somewhere in the region of 50,000 USD to produce a proto of.

And that's not something mass production helps with. because graphene is incredibly hard to make.

This is why the market is not already flooded with folding and scrolling screens. The tech exists, the space-age material its made from is too expensive. Even if it is made cheaper (we are talking btw, about a nano-material, something built at the atomic level), it will still initially be too expensive for consumer facing products. It would be like the first mobile phones - for the rich, for the CEO's of large companies.

Any folding screen tech released now, or soon, would either have a gap/crease, or be very expensive. And if it was the former, it would be more like a 'work in progress" device, a "new idea using old technology" than a world changing piece of sci-fi. It would be a stepping stone towards a more distant future where graphene slowly becomes cheaper to make.

these are already there in windows store. Finally trendy apps & attractive hardware is the key of surface phone's key of success

Some are. But my point was that for many basic tasks, the software on desktop is superior to something like android. Like a browser, or music software.

If there was a folding tablet running win32, in at least some respects (all the software on the desktop) the app experience would be vastly superior. App quality and depth on mobile OSes is horrible next to their desktop counterparts.

 

[hyperleaf]

At the moment, consumers are still pretty dependent on apps, which is probably the reason the last generation of mobile windows devices suffered like their predecessors. So, there isn't a huge demand for any new ones because the store still lacks a lot of first-party services people enjoy in iOS and Android. And MS is a business. At this point, we can't expect them to support a product that isn't game-changing, or at least feasible.

 

[Vittorio Vaselli]

now you see the picture. fundamentals for the surface phone should be ready in late 2018. unless 2018 brings foldable screen technology for consumers , then unfortunately we have to wait for the mythical device. it all depends on when the folding screen tech comes out!!!

there you have it.

They patented device with two or three screens, I don't think they'll wait the foldable screen.

seems u have messed up everything... w10m is dead in the water.. Cshell is the future which is full windows 10

Cshell is not full Windows 10 only. The leaked builds run cshell on Windows mobile.

If its some kind of rigid, none flexible forefunner, that may come next year or soon, and I believe MSFT is working on this, but it's not going to be exactly what people imagine I don't think. It'll be sort of focused on a dual screen UI, rather the focused on a larger single screen to de-emphasize the screen creases.

Totally agree, the revolution of the first iphone was in the way you used your phone, not in the apps (which came later) and not in the touchscreen which was already on a lot of smartphones/tablet (though it was a worst technology). It was about the interaction you had with the device, a new UI paradigm, new gestures etc;
I think they'll try to do something similiar, new things is what attract developers.

 

[Kot Prada]

Surface Phone must use the newest hardware technology!

If the Surface Phone came out Dec 2017 hardware must be: Everything my Lumia 950 XL had +

- Snapdragon 836
- 6GB RAM
- 64GB UFS v2
- MicroSDXC UHS I
- 6th generation Purview Camera
- IP68 Certified
- QHD 1440p Flip display
- Gorilla glass 5
- 4000 mAh battery 3rd gen (Li-Medal)

If the Surface Phone comes out 6 months later May 2018 hardware must be:

- Snapdragon 845
- 8GB RAM
- 128GB UFS v2
- MicroSDXC UHS II
- 7th generation Purview Camera
- IP68 Certified
- UHD 2160p Flip display
- Gorilla glass 6
- 4000 mAh battery 3rd gen (Li-Medal)

Specs ONLY go up every year! Microsoft must have best of the best of the time!

every one keep talking about "Snapdragon 835 & 4GB of RAM" is absolutely old in the upcoming months. Even Samsung upcoming Note 8 is using "Snapdragon 836 & 6GB of RAM"......so MSFT must have premium specs!

My opinion

Sent from Lumia 950XL

I like it. Pack me 2 please.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Specs ONLY go up every year! Microsoft must have best of the best of the time!

It seems to me that for everyone who says that there will be one person saying it needs to attack the low end of the market.

 

[imsai0]

There are many reasons one might say windows phone has been less successful. They would all be guesses, unless anyone wants to present any data or proof.

I think consumers interest(driven by apps availability) towards wp is the proof

graphene, which is what flexible screens are made of, is incredibly expensive to produce. The tiny scrolling screen Samsung demo'd back in 2013 cost somewhere in the region of 50,000 USD to produce a proto of.

And that's not something mass production helps with. because graphene is incredibly hard to make.

This is why the market is not already flooded with folding and scrolling screens. The tech exists, the space-age material its made from is too expensive. Even if it is made cheaper (we are talking btw, about a nano-material, something built at the atomic level), it will still initially be too expensive for consumer facing products. It would be like the first mobile phones - for the rich, for the CEO's of large companies.

Any folding screen tech released now, or soon, would either have a gap/crease, or be very expensive. And if it was the former, it would be more like a 'work in progress" device, a "new idea using old technology" than a world changing piece of sci-fi.

I don't have a degree on material engineering. so I can't tell what folding screens be made of. If it's too much expensive for consumer, then I have to believe ms/lg/samsung are working on alternatives like dual/triple screens and of coursely ms, bcoz they have that kind of patents.

Agree with rest

 

[imsai0]

They patented device with two or three screens, I don't think they'll wait the foldable screen

I agree. surface phone may not have foldable screen, it may have dual/triple screen combo. thinking this way makes sense if we follow ms recent patents.

Cshell is not full Windows 10 only. The leaked builds run cshell on Windows mobile

I strongly disagree here.. Cshell or composable shell is indeed full windows 10 which can scale according to devices. It will replace the legacy windows shell found on windows desktops. A quick google search on windows Cshell/composable shell will reveal more info. I have been following Cshell news since day one of it's announcement.

 

[techiez]

I don't know what folding tech will ms make.. maybe the dual screen UI you have referred.

after recently seeing various patents from ms, I can assume something game changer is comming sooner combining both smartphone & holographic tech



ms slowly progressing toward a Surface Phone. Can't u see it? they are cooking up Cshell, having folding screen patents.
after WOA & hololens gets consumer ready , we should see the Surface Phone in action




surface hardware factory is there to back up!!



surface phone wouldnt have any app issue. it runs full windows10. so win32 apps can run naturally including bluestacks. this is the natural solution.

or ms will make a sandboxed Android emulator. bcoz when unfolded the surface phone runs in desktop mode, when folded behaves like a phone

stop reading that Jason Ward crap

 

[Guytronic]

Even if the fantasy is true smartphone users wouldn't run to buy some wild design with technology not used today anywhere.

Non-rabid smartphone users want status quo stability with declining prices for phones.

 

[techiez]

Even if the fantasy is true smartphone users wouldn't run to buy some wild design with technology not used today anywhere.

Non-rabid smartphone users want status quo stability with declining prices for phones.

True. Hardware wasnt the problem for WPs, it was software(apps) that let down, how does SP change any of that.full windows on a pocketable device without apps is still useless, thats the reason even continuum failed to take off, it may be useful to some extent but its not game changer.

 

[Guytronic]

Some people view all this smartphone platform OS stuff as a competition.

To me it's more a matter of simple utility.
Some are addicted most are not.

The point is Microsoft knows no one cares and fortunately they wisely won't pitch money at an unprofitable venture.
What Microsoft says and what they will do are 2 different things.

 

[imsai0]

Even if the fantasy is true smartphone users wouldn't run to buy some wild design with technology not used today anywhere.

Non-rabid smartphone users want status quo stability with declining prices for phones.

I think that comment proves current styled smartphones are on deciline
. something new kind of handheld hardware is the future

 

[imsai0]

True. Hardware wasnt the problem for WPs, it was software(apps) that let down, how does SP change any of that.full windows on a pocketable device without apps is still useless, thats the reason even continuum failed to take off, it may be useful to some extent but its not game changer.

SP or (according to some people the mythical SP) will run Cshell which is full blown windows 10. tell me how a SP ( a full windows 10 device) will lack apps that will let it down?

 

[travisel]

People want conveniences! Where is Microsoft pay?? There been talking about it for years!! This fall all new hardware & OS ...Apple iPhone 8 iOS11, Google Pixel 2 Android 8, Samsung Note 8 and Samsung own OS slowly taking ground Tizen 4 also has pay!

Love my Lumia 950 XL but now NO 3rd party financial banking apps! I absolutely hate using my Edge browser on a little 5.7" display is nonsense to do any on the fly banking!

I love Microsoft but there very very slow bringing out finished software!....always on the backburner!! Working on it working on it they say but nothing. Social media apps are sub power to iPhone & Android.

I been only with Microsoft Mobile OS's for the last 11 years! Never thought or wanted or needed to have iPhone or Android but now Microsoft is putting nails in the Mobile coffin.

There's no more argument. UWP is not taking off! There's no more Lumia phone coming! There's no 3rd party apps coming! Now people are saying there's no "Surface Phone" coming??

2018 is the game changer for Microsoft Mobile! Live or die? Is the Surface Phone coming? with killer hardware? and all the best MSFT 1st party apps? and all the top 3rd party apps? available everywhere iPhone 8, Pixel 2, Note 8 are sold? With the biggest marketing campaigns man ever seen? (((Surface Phone))) or (((Surface Note))) or (((Surface Mobile))) or something....

My Lumia 950 XL is two years old this November 25!...I was the first person to receive the Lumia 950 XL from the MSFT Store in Edmonton!! I was dedicated to this platform! Now this device is not getting any younger and I'm trying to bite the bullet but ......less than 1% market share is it time?

I feel my Lumia 950 XL was MSFT last Mobile phone hurrah! ....and the Surface Phone is a myth.

Sent from Lumia 950XL

 

[Guytronic]

I think that comment proves current styled smartphones are on deciline

Of course current phones are in decline.
People want lower cost devices not something they aren't familiar with.

I think more people are returning to the basics for pocket phones.
For myself I seldom get my smartphone out while waiting at the doctor, etc anymore...but that's me

 

[imsai0]

Some people view all this smartphone platform OS stuff as a competition.

To me it's more a matter of simple utility.
Some are addicted most are not.

The point is Microsoft knows no one cares and fortunately they wisely won't pitch money at an unprofitable venture.
What Microsoft says and what they will do are 2 different things.

Why don't you understand without a Surface Phone like device, ms will be doomed?? and no company certainly wants that.

surface pro like tablets won't save the company in the long run. ms now realizes that without a mobile ground (where developers are) how difficult it is for them to establish their own groundbreaking innovation like hololens has been!!! mobile will play the key role of ms existence. ms knows this. by today or by the near future, ms has to win mobile. that's why surface phone argument is still going..

 

[Guytronic]

Why don't you understand without a Surface Phone like device, ms will be doomed??

Doubtful.
Microsoft will be fine with it's profitable products.
Mobile is lost for MS and leaving it is the best path for the company currently.