Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be improved?

[TLRtheory]

After hearing that SP3 would break the trend of horrendous 0.9mpx cameras, I was giddy.

All since I got it on launch date, it seemed like it simply was no better. Checked the settings to make sure I had everything right on my end... wasn't until today that I learned what the culprit is: this damn camera is locked into a fixed focus!

Hilariously enough, if you dig deep enough into documentation(pg 89 of the user guide) you'll find this insulting quibble:

Record video with either camera in 1080p HD, with a 16:9 aspect ratio (widescreen). Both cameras are fixed focus, so you don?t need to worry about focusing. A privacy light appears when either camera is on, so there are no surprises.

...what a surprise it will be when someone buys this and realizes the universally panned Acer Iconia W3 runs circles around the camera experience... with a 2MP camera! Thank you Microsoft for deciding we "don't need to worry about focus"... really saved us from all those great pictures we could be taking!

While I may want to snap a shot of my daughter or puppy from time to time, I don't particularly care about being one of those a-holes that's in public lording their tablet over peoples heads to snap shots... but being able to take a picture of a whiteboard that I can actually read after a lecture would be a pretty nice inclusion on a tablet that's both "built for productivity" and cost me $1299.

Alas; I'm no camera expert, so I'd like to know if fixed focus is a hardware limitation or can it be ditched for dynamic focusing with a FW update?

 

[photobriangray]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

Are you saying that you can't get a photo with your Surface Pro 3 because it is fixed focus?

Focal length becomes less and less important with sensor sizes as small as those on phones and tablets. Focal length and the projected image size, in this case a tiny sensor, determine depth of field. The available depth of field of a tiny sensor, regardless of the number of megapixels, makes having a focus mechanism kind of semantic. Now, where I am seeing it could be a problem is with "scanning" documents. I always have my 1020 with me so I can count the number of times I have used a tablet camera on one hand. You may be a little dramatic about kid and dog shots, but docs and whiteboards, perhaps a firmware fix is on order.

 

[TLRtheory]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

Not so much that I can't get a photo... but that the pictures taken are no good.

I truly wish I were dramatizing the situation, but it's starting to become more of a widespread complaint as people become aware of it. I'd snap some shots myself, but I'm currently on the clock. You can see the contrast in THIS THREAD though, as well as the massive complaints revolving around the same issue.

I'm very well aware that I could just use my phone to get the picture then send it to my tablet for further modification, but the whole point of the capture process is that it's supposed to be a seamless transition between snapping and importing to OneNote.

 

[strollin]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

The Sp3's fixed focus can be dealt with, you just need to move yourself back & forth until the picture is in focus! :grin:

 

[Ruined]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

This does seem a bit short sighted, though I would never use the camera on back so for me personally would not be an issue. I can see it being an issue for many, however.

 

[dish22]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

can not scan a letter size doc or invoice to onenote ... so much for replacing ios devices

 

[BaritoneGuy]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

can not scan a letter size doc or invoice to onenote ... so much for replacing ios devices

Regardless of the fixed focus issue, we really need Office Lens for the whole Win 8 platform. I love that app and use it all the time.

 

[stephen_az]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

can not scan a letter size doc or invoice to onenote ... so much for replacing ios devices

Wow. First post and completely misinformed. Congratulations. Yes, you can use the camera to send something to OneNote and the results are perfectly acceptable.

 

[stephen_az]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

After hearing that SP3 would break the trend of horrendous 0.9mpx cameras, I was giddy.

All since I got it on launch date, it seemed like it simply was no better. Checked the settings to make sure I had everything right on my end... wasn't until today that I learned what the culprit is: this damn camera is locked into a fixed focus!

Hilariously enough, if you dig deep enough into documentation(pg 89 of the user guide) you'll find this insulting quibble:

...what a surprise it will be when someone buys this and realizes the universally panned Acer Iconia W3 runs circles around the camera experience... with a 2MP camera! Thank you Microsoft for deciding we "don't need to worry about focus"... really saved us from all those great pictures we could be taking!

While I may want to snap a shot of my daughter or puppy from time to time, I don't particularly care about being one of those a-holes that's in public lording their tablet over peoples heads to snap shots... but being able to take a picture of a whiteboard that I can actually read after a lecture would be a pretty nice inclusion on a tablet that's both "built for productivity" and cost me $1299.

Alas; I'm no camera expert, so I'd like to know if fixed focus is a hardware limitation or can it be fixed with a FW update?

No offense but you are obviously no camera expert. If your results are really bad that may be a defective unit or possibly user error. Fixed focus does not mean you can only focus on something at a fixed distance, nor does it mean that all photos will look circa 2001 P&S lousy. It means the lens is physically locked at a fixed setting. The camera (or more accurately SP3) can and does sharpen images digitally into focus from a foot (or so) to the photographic concept of infinity. Will you ever get great photos out of a low megapixel sensor behind a shallowly placed fixed lens? No you will not, but then you will not from any comparable setup which happen to account for most tablet cameras and still lots of camera phones as well. You can, however, get acceptable snapshot quality images in good to moderate light conditions. Contrary to one of the other posts, you also certainly can use it to send a useable image to OneNote

What you cannot do with a SP3, which would be nice and could be added in a software/firmware upgrade, is real time digital zoom. By that I mean being able to pinch/zoom before taking an image. I doubt they will ever add that functionality though since, even though they upgraded the camera, that is still certainly not high on the marketing radar as a selling point. For the most part, whether it is any Windows tablet and almost every Android tablet, regardless of specs the camera is only there for an occasional snapshot and for video conferencing. Is it perhaps a bit misleading to say it has a 5MP camera (as if that meant something special)? Perhaps it is but that line is sold by just about everyone selling tablets and 5MP was state of the art in 2003/2004. Even Apple, which does make claims about it's camera and image quality is hard pressed to back them up. Yes, the camera has more features, including a few clever ones, but I while I have encountered many iPad owners looking very silly while they hold their tablet in front of their face to take an image, they are also usually grumbling about the images when taken under anything other than optimal lighting.

FWIW, people should use the camera with the full understanding of what they have. It is a still low resolution sensor added into a definitively non-photographic device. If the images are genuinely terrible and/or always out of focus, consider first whether it is being used within its tolerances and second if it may be defective. If used appropriately and lighting is sufficient, it will produce reasonable images that are acceptably sharp at various distances. They will not be DSLR quality, nor even that of a better quality smartphone, but will capture images consistent with the 5MP sensor.

 

[anon(7901790)]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

Are you saying that you can't get a photo with your Surface Pro 3 because it is fixed focus?

Focal length becomes less and less important with sensor sizes as small as those on phones and tablets. Focal length and the projected image size, in this case a tiny sensor, determine depth of field. The available depth of field of a tiny sensor, regardless of the number of megapixels, makes having a focus mechanism kind of semantic. Now, where I am seeing it could be a problem is with "scanning" documents. I always have my 1020 with me so I can count the number of times I have used a tablet camera on one hand. You may be a little dramatic about kid and dog shots, but docs and whiteboards, perhaps a firmware fix is on order.

It does make a difference when trying to scan a document. I couldn't get a sharp enough image for it to be of any use. Of course, I didn't buy the SP3 for its camera. If I need to scan a document, I use my flatbed attached to my desktop, or my Icon, both of which do a really good job.

 

[rdubmu]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

It does make a difference when trying to scan a document. I couldn't get a sharp enough image for it to be of any use. Of course, I didn't buy the SP3 for its camera. If I need to scan a document, I use my flatbed attached to my desktop, or my Icon, both of which do a really good job.

I tried to take a picture of an agenda for a meeting and add it into OneNote. I was a bit disappointed it couldn't take a clear enough shot. Then OneNote on IOS kept on crashing so I couldn't take it on my phone.

 

[TLRtheory]

No offense but you are obviously no camera expert. If your results are really bad that may be a defective unit or possibly user error.

It is a still low resolution sensor added into a definitively non-photographic device. If the images are genuinely terrible and/or always out of focus, consider first whether it is being used within its tolerances and second if it may be defective. If used appropriately and lighting is sufficient, it will produce reasonable images that are acceptably sharp at various distances. They will not be DSLR quality, nor even that of a better quality smartphone, but will capture images consistent with the 5MP sensor.

While I am definitely no camera expert, I know what I'm supposed to be getting out of a camera of this grade... and that this is below-par.

It's cute that you'd bring up defective units, but there's too many users getting the same results for that to be the problem at hand. Check the thread I linked to on Microsoft's forum. Even if we were to assume all the people complaining about their inability to make the SP3 focus were all defective, the units on display at my local Microsoft Store all suffered from the same. Does that also lead you to believe that ALL the units chosen to showcase the SP3 and everyone reporting this same issue simply has defective units or simply can't work up the savvy to take a shot? Come on now...

The issue here isn't even that 5.0mp is particularly inadequate, but rather that the fixed focus doesn't allow it to dynamically adjust itself to the scenario. I've got some time; so to put this in retrospect, I'll provide examples.

Taken on my SP3 (featuring a 5mp camera, no opt zoom) at max settings. Since it's in fixed focus constantly, it doesn't even attempt sharpening the shot per scenario (sans the worthless post-processing), therefore it's almost unreadable.

(Click to see full-size image)​

Taken on my Xperia Play from 2011 (also featuring a 5mp camera, no opt zoom). Notice that the row of buttons above "Scepter" read "SoundBar" very clearly... whereas on the SP3's camera of the same grade, the post-process focusing did nothing to make that readable.

(Click to see full-size image)​

But lets try a more likely example. I'll use my 50in LED TV to create the instance that one of my college professors has a presentation onscreen that I simply need to snap for highlighting important elements. I gave enough distance between myself and the focal object to simulate how far away I'd be in a lecture scenario given that I sit in the 1st or 2nd row.

On the SP3. I fought with the exposure (about the only controllable variable, BTW) to even get it this good... and it's still crap that I'd be struggling to read.

(Click to see full-size image)​

On the Xperia Play? It's actually able to focus on what content's important and adjust itself... and it does so to such an extent that it's hard to realize the lights are on in this room.

(Click to see full-size image)​

This is not user error or a defective unit, this is the disappointing maximum output of this camera... and it's what many people have reported getting. Anyone can cover their insults with a "no offense," but if your infinite wisdom has something of value to offer, by all means take the stand.

 

[anon(7901790)]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

I tried to take a picture of an agenda for a meeting and add it into OneNote. I was a bit disappointed it couldn't take a clear enough shot. Then OneNote on IOS kept on crashing so I couldn't take it on my phone.

Try Office Link, it works directly with OneNote. The only problem (as I see it), is that you can't choose what notebook to put the image capture in. It goes into Quicknotes, then from there you have to manually move it to another notebook.

 

[rdubmu]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

Try Office Link, it works directly with OneNote. The only problem (as I see it), is that you can't choose what notebook to put the image capture in. It goes into Quicknotes, then from there you have to manually move it to another notebook.

I searched for it on the App store and couldn't find it. (for IOS)

 

[colinkiama]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

I searched for it on the App store and couldn't find it. (for IOS)

i think its on the windows store

 

[anon(7901790)]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

i think its on the windows store

I think you're right. It's not in Google Play either.

 

[rdubmu]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

I think you're right. It's not in Google Play either.

Not in the windows store either, maybe windows phone. On windows phone their is an awesome app called Office Lens

 

[anon(7901790)]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

Not in the windows store either, maybe windows phone. On windows phone their is an awesome app called Office Lens

Office Lens is what it is called. That is the app! I'm such a moron... I should have known better, because I use it almost on a daily basis.

Edit: Evidently Office Lens is built into OneNote for iOS.

http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft...phone-with-ios-7-design-office-lens-and-more/

 

[jhoff80]

I guess none of you saying this is okay never need a picture of a whiteboard in a conference room without Wifi? Sure, you can use Office Lens. It's not nearly as convenient as being able to take a clear photo using the Surface itself.

Fixed focus is ridiculous in a >$800 device. I don't need a tablet camera to be the same as my 1020, but seriously, whiteboard snapshots and document scans to put into OneNote would be nice.

 

[Ruined]

Re: Surface Pro 3 Fixed Focus Camera... can that even be fixed?

No offense but you are obviously no camera expert ... The camera (or more accurately SP3) can and does sharpen images digitally into focus from a foot (or so) to the photographic concept of infinity.

No offense, but your statement there makes it evident you are obviously no camera expert either

If something is out of focus you can't "sharpen images digitally into focus", you can only apply post-processing/sharpening which then results in an out-of-focus image with sharpening applied - dramatically inferior to an in-focus image. Even Adobe Photoshop CC 2014's best post-processing for this usage looks terrible compared to an in-focus image. This is a pretty severe limitation for a rear camera, and honestly I am not sure why they even bothered including the camera in the first place if it was going to have this limitation.

They will not be DSLR quality, nor even that of a better quality smartphone, but will capture images consistent with the 5MP sensor.

They will be far inferior to even a $50 Lumia 520, nevermind a better quality smartphone or DSLR - lol.