The rolling mess of lies continues

[colinkiama]

Why are you guys angry. Websites will never look like crap again! Woo hoo!

 

[eortizr]

IE still loading mobile sites even when set to desktop. I really starting to hate all MS lies. Even WPCentral loads the Mobile site WP8 is a joke

 

[theefman]

Lies or not, the upshot of this is real issues for WP users, being directed to install android apps or redirected to google play. Just tried going to twitter to read something, install app button takes me to google's store. How will less savvy users deal with this? Delivering iphone or android features to a user browsing with a WP device sounds like a bad move to me.

 

[awilliams1701]

I'm a web developer myself and this crap pisses me off. A User Agent String should say this "Internet Explorer 11.0 (arm, touch, mobile)" with mobile being they key developer. I hate how ALL UA strings start with Mozilla (which identifies it as netscape which no longer exists). Why because other developers suck and don't know how to code. I use a standards complaint browser to create a page and then test it on IE. Currently IE no longer has issues and no work is required, but for older versions, you need to apply a few minor fixes. This is the way development should be done. By doing it this way I can add conditional .CSS files for IE8- that are automatically rejected by modern IE versions.

The user agent strings as of Update1:

For Mobile:

Mozilla/5.0 (Mobile; Windows Phone 8.1; Android 4.0; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; IEMobile/11.0; NOKIA; Lumia 1520) like iPhone OS 7_0_3 Mac OS Apple WebKit/537 (KHTML, Like Gecko) Mobile Safari/537

For Desktop:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; WPDesktop; Lumia 1520) like Gecko

There's the explanation why IE will load pages better in Update 1. However it includes a lot of lies, and every time it's getting worse.

OFC I'll stick to the desktop version.

 

[Entegy]

IE still loading mobile sites even when set to desktop. I really starting to hate all MS lies. Even WPCentral loads the Mobile site WP8 is a joke

It's not a lie, there's still things websites can do to force a mobile website, or maybe they've already set a cookie saying your device gets the mobile version.

 

[Ma Rio]

I'm a web developer myself and this crap pisses me off. A User Agent String should say this "Internet Explorer 11.0 (arm, touch, mobile)" with mobile being they key developer. I hate how ALL UA strings start with Mozilla (which identifies it as netscape which no longer exists). Why because other developers suck and don't know how to code. I use a standards complaint browser to create a page and then test it on IE. Currently IE no longer has issues and no work is required, but for older versions, you need to apply a few minor fixes. This is the way development should be done. By doing it this way I can add conditional .CSS files for IE8- that are automatically rejected by modern IE versions.

This is what I'm talkin' about. Code according to standards. Not according to what's the most popular platform.
I totally agree with you on the UAS thing, that's just what I said.


Also I tried to do some tests what would happen if you change user agent strings, but I haven't been able to do it completely.
I'll post details if i make it.

 

[Ma Rio]

I actually don't even get what MS was trying to do. Today, rare are websites that sniff for browsers and actually do anything but direct you to a mobile/desktop version depending on what they sniffed.

I generally prefer using desktop sites for multiple reasons (full features is the one that gets me the most, but also the fact that I'm used to desktop sites). However I get that there are people who need mobile sites because they have a limited data plan and need to conserve as much as possible.

Having the option to select which version of sites we prefer (mobile or desktop) in settings, the only thing MS should do is tie a desktop UAS (for example "Internet Explorer/11.0 (ARM; Trident/7.0)") to the desktop choice, and a mobile UAS (an example would be "Internet Explorer/11.0 (Mobile; Touch; Windows Phone 8.1; ARM; Trident/7.0)") to the mobile choice, and that's it.
And at the end of the day, even if you get sent to a desktop site, you can always just go to m.website.com or select "Go to mobile version" and that should be it.

I bet that there will not be a single website that will completely deny you to enter it if you don't have a browser from the list.

As of MS dumbening down IE, IDK what to say, good job guys, you know what's up. You shouldn't adjust to bad trends, you should fight for the good ones.

 

[colinkiama]

IE still loading mobile sites even when set to desktop. I really starting to hate all MS lies. Even WPCentral loads the Mobile site WP8 is a joke

Delete you cookies, maybe cache or even your browsing data then try again. Check out twitter and check if google plus is awesome like the other platforms. I don't have a wp to try this on.

 

[colinkiama]

This thread should be changed to 'The rolling mess of beautiful lies begin'

 

[Alex Rodriguez Jr.]

Why do you guys entertain the purest forms of stupidity?

 

[Ma Rio]

Delete you cookies, maybe cache or even your browsing data then try again. Check out twitter and check if google plus is awesome like the other platforms. I don't have a wp to try this on.

Nah, the guy is right, I said it also. IE opens all pages as mobile no matter what setting you chose. It's happening since 8.1. I was hoping Update1 would fix it but it didnt. It only brought iPhone/Android pages to the mix.

 

[Blacklac]

Doesn't this only further the issue. Now more webpages will be tagged as viewed by a non WP device?

 

[Sosinondodrore]

Hahaha, awesome:

 

[ScottGeek]

Want to see something odd from whatismybrowser.com in IE 11:


Yeah, that is running on WP 8.1 GRD1..... yeap, you can't make this stuff up :shocked: ...well you could, but the "yeap, that's what the site says" is so much more fun.

2 points for naming my phone correctly... -1,000,000,000,000 for the wrong OS....

~ScottGeek.

 

[Jonnie LasVegas]

Doesn't this only further the issue. Now more webpages will be tagged as viewed by a non WP device?

I think the devs will know when they read that it's IE11 and not safari. Doesn't mean they'll care, though, lol.

 

[Blacklac]

You guys have Mobile sites preferred? Mine is IE 11 on Windows 8, but I have Desktop preferred.

Edit: Yup, Mobile reported iOS7.

 

[ScottGeek]

You guys have Mobile sites preferred? Mine is IE 11 on Windows 8, but I have Desktop preferred.

Edit: Yup, Mobile reported iOS7.

You are correct, switch to Desktop setting and you get Windows 8 as the OS -which of course, is technically still wrong since the OS is 8.1, but in the light of the Mobile setting being wrong in a worst? way... it's not a huge deal... all be it the Mobile setting is a bit funny.

I suspect this site assumes that if it can't determine the OS clearly it falls through to a default where Mobile = IOS... after all we ALL have iPhones/iPads and no one surfs the web on a mobile device unless it is an IOS device. Right? :amaze:

~ScottGeek.

 

[Pete]

This articles goes into a fair bit of depth in terms of the IE updates

http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-81-update-1-internet-explorer

With regard to the IOS7 thing, it's because many websites have coded their mobile sites for Apples idea of the standards rather than the "proper" standards. MS have had to serve up what's best for the viewer.

Browser detection. Now IE will automatically present the same view you'd see in Safari on IOS on many mobile web sites.

Detecting legacy WebKit features. Now IE will automatically map popular WebKit-prefixed APIs to the standards based functionality that's already in IE 11. This means that non-standard mobile sites will now render correctly on Windows Phone 8.1 with Update 1.

Support non-standard proprietary features. Here's the most out-there change: The new IE will actually support a small range of popular but non-standard features that were popularized by the iPhone.

Unique new features in IE. Because IE Mobile simply doesn't support a number of popular mobile web features—remember, the goal was to bring desktop IE to your phone in Windows Phone 8.1—the new version is being updated to support HTML 5 features for the mobile web.

Fix interoperability issues. The IE team also found a number of "peculiar" interoperability issues where bad HTML code would work in other browsers but not in IE. Those were fixed, as were some bugs in the Trident rendering engine used by IE Mobile

 

[ScottGeek]

It almost a non-problem really, because it is up to site owners not to go with this assumed default which is neither a standard nor does it render their site correctly in most cases when you id your browser as "Mobile". Apple does not define industry standards, but of course site owners don't understand that, as they are told by false surveys that everyone "Mobile" touches their site with an Apple product (that circling back around to the browser not reporting itself correctly). That's the circle that has gotten the technology to this point...

And, it's a not a new thing... this kind of circling around false standards based on device/browser use, has gone on for years. Enter HTML5, and like you quote... for mobile we are not there yet.

Now, not the pick apart things, much... this site whatismybrowser.com.. It knows what my device is... 1520... add a bit more smarts and it can determine that my 1520 is not Apple product... choosing the wrong default is not better than choosing "unknown", because with "unknown" you render your site to the lowest common html, not -"maybe some of that Apple non-standard stuff will work, or more the case will Not work". This is called... don't chase the wrong answer and try to code around it. **Ok I'll stop picking.... :angel:

~ScottGeek.

 

[James8561]

As of MS dumbening down IE, IDK what to say, good job guys, you know what's up. You shouldn't adjust to bad trends, you should fight for the good ones.

and fight with what? 4% marketshare? how does that fair against the 78% Android and 17% iOS canons?