The rolling mess of lies continues

[Ma Rio]

The user agent strings as of Update1:

For Mobile:

Mozilla/5.0 (Mobile; Windows Phone 8.1; Android 4.0; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; IEMobile/11.0; NOKIA; Lumia 1520) like iPhone OS 7_0_3 Mac OS Apple WebKit/537 (KHTML, Like Gecko) Mobile Safari/537

For Desktop:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; WPDesktop; Lumia 1520) like Gecko

There's the explanation why IE will load pages better in Update 1. However it includes a lot of lies, and every time it's getting worse.

OFC I'll stick to the desktop version.

 

[Ma Rio]

So when I go on html5test.com, it recognises it as "an unknown browser that imitates Mobile Internet Exxplorer 10.0 on Windows Phone 8".
For both mobile and desktop version.

 

[Pete]

Tried whatismybrowser.com? It reports that I'm using IE11 on Windows Phone 8.

Maybe the html5test site is out of date when it comes to browser versions.

 

[Xellsama]

I think what a lot of poorly designed(or just out of date) websites do is when then browser is identified as IE, they would try to render the site as if it's IE6~8, which obviously would be problematic because IE 10 and 11 are vastly superior and renders pages much more inline with the other browsers than with IE6. MS wouldn't have to do this if websites recognize the new IEs and treat it properly.

 

[mparker]

The user agent strings as of Update1:

For Mobile:

Mozilla/5.0 (Mobile; Windows Phone 8.1; Android 4.0; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; IEMobile/11.0; NOKIA; Lumia 1520) like iPhone OS 7_0_3 Mac OS Apple WebKit/537 (KHTML, Like Gecko) Mobile Safari/537

For Desktop:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; WPDesktop; Lumia 1520) like Gecko

There's the explanation why IE will load pages better in Update 1. However it includes a lot of lies, and every time it's getting worse.

OFC I'll stick to the desktop version.

You're about 20 years too late to start worrying about this sort of thing. Browsers have been lying about themselves ever since they started claiming to be Netscape Navigator in order to get pages to render properly (in case you've ever wondered what that "Gecko" means in the UA string).

When websites stop insisting that the only version of IE they'll support is IE6, and that they will only use the new HTML5 features for Safari and Chrome, then IE can reduce the falsehoods.

 

[David P2]

See here also: Microsoft: IE11 for Windows Phone 8.1 is TOO GOOD. So we'll cripple it like Safari • The Register

 

[Ma Rio]

I said this in another post, it's not MS' problem.
If a site really does that, well the site is on the loosing side. They will get less visitors.
So they should optimise, not MS pretending to be something else.
If I ever made a browser, the User-Agent string would look like "Browser name / Version ; OS Desktop/Mobile"
END OF STORY. No gecko-safari-webkit crap! Or anything else.
Also, the web-wars are over. Now that every browser has all those fancy names in it's user-agent string do you think anyone does sniffing? If a browser sucks, it can put lie about what it is, but it will still suck. But if a browser is good, it has nothing to hide. That's what MS should think about.

 

[Daniel Rubino]

What lies? Did you even read Microsoft's well detailed article on the changes? Let me give you the short story:

Web developers use non-standard coding for websites to appease iPhone/Webkit users; they break the web and standards that MS is following; as a result, Microsoft is now using some non-standard features in IE11

User agent string - also to help get around the bad coding on the web, they're faking the user agent string (something I said on Twitter weeks ago) to improve compatibility

Read it all here.

IE11 renders websites better with Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1 | Windows Phone Central

The Mobile Web should just work for everyone - IEBlog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

The user agent strings as of Update1:

For Mobile:

Mozilla/5.0 (Mobile; Windows Phone 8.1; Android 4.0; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; IEMobile/11.0; NOKIA; Lumia 1520) like iPhone OS 7_0_3 Mac OS Apple WebKit/537 (KHTML, Like Gecko) Mobile Safari/537

For Desktop:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11.0; WPDesktop; Lumia 1520) like Gecko

There's the explanation why IE will load pages better in Update 1. However it includes a lot of lies, and every time it's getting worse.

OFC I'll stick to the desktop version.

 

[mparker]

I said this in another post, it's not MS' problem.
If a site really does that, well the site is on the loosing side. They will get less visitors.

Maybe not enough to matter. Especially if the site sort-of-works anyway, it's just not as good as it would otherwise have been.

So they should optimise, not MS pretending to be something else.

If they don't, Microsoft can't force them.

If I ever made a browser, the User-Agent string would look like "Browser name / Version ; OS Desktop/Mobile"
END OF STORY. No gecko-safari-webkit crap! Or anything else.

Then no one would use your browser. You might have that luxury, but Microsoft is a business not a hobby.

Also, the web-wars are over. Now that every browser has all those fancy names in it's user-agent string do you think anyone does sniffing? If a browser sucks, it can put lie about what it is, but it will still suck. But if a browser is good, it has nothing to hide. That's what MS should think about.

Your idealism is admirable but misguided and unrealistic.

Of course websites do sniffing, that's one of the problems here - they're sniffing and either (a) getting it wrong (thinking IE6/7 instead of IE11), or (b) doing it incorrectly (sniffing for Safari or Chrome and sending webkit-specific html instead of sniffing for HTML5 and sending the equivalent HTML5).

A browser can be the best in the world, it doesn't matter if the websites don't support it. And until IE11 mobile gets more market share, there's very little cost for them not supporting it. So IE mobile has to fake it until it makes it.

 

[lazylex]

I find it hilarious that wpcentral.com runs so horribly on the most recent update. Using a Lumia 1520 and I can't even use the drop down bar at the top of the mobile page because upon tapping it just takes me to the homepage.

Using desktop view does nothing. Irony?

 

[Ma Rio]

I understand what's going on (answer to both Daniel and mparker).
But isn't that a big problem? Not only in the software industry, it's everywhere.
Bad things that are popular get treated better than good things that aren't popular as much.
So in this case, Microsoft has to dumb down it's IE (which was "too good" as said above in a post), because web-devs only care if you use an iPhone. That's all that matters!

 

[Ma Rio]

But the problem with that strategy is that MS can only follow Apple and catch up. They can never surpass them. They are trying to be a better Apple than Apple. (Seems familiar? Check out http://forums.windowscentral.com/wi...indows-phone-better-android-than-android.html)

 

[mparker]

But the problem with that strategy is that MS can only follow Apple and catch up. They can never surpass them.

They're not following apple. Microsoft implemented the HTML5 standard. Apple also implemented the HTML5 standard. Yay we have a standard.

But Apple also provided Webkit-specific aliases for those new HTML5 tags. Websites are using the Webkit tags instead of the HTLM5 tags, and only on Webkit browsers. Until these websites start detecting HTML5 browsers and start using the standard HTML5 tags Microsoft has no choice but to provide alternate Webkit names for their HTML5 features, and claim to be Safari.

 

[MikeSo]

I understand what's going on (answer to both Daniel and mparker).
But isn't that a big problem? Not only in the software industry, it's everywhere.
Bad things that are popular get treated better than good things that aren't popular as much.
So in this case, Microsoft has to dumb down it's IE (which was "too good" as said above in a post), because web-devs only care if you use an iPhone. That's all that matters!

I guess I don't understand the point of this thread then. Yeah, in an ideal world everyone would use standards. That's not the case, for some often very good reasons related to innovation and competition.

 

[mauriciod73]

To me it says I'm using IE11 on iOS7 :S

 

[JerseySal]

A subjective post with an op-ed used as a source.

 

[MobileVortex]

To me it says I'm using IE11 on iOS7 :S

haha same here

 

[anony_mouse]

This could all be solved if Microsoft allowed alternative browsers and (more importantly) rendering engines on WP. Even Apple will permit this on iOS8. You have to ask if Microsoft actually want WP to succeed.

 

[jharr100]

I find it hilarious that wpcentral.com runs so horribly on the most recent update. Using a Lumia 1520 and I can't even use the drop down bar at the top of the mobile page because upon tapping it just takes me to the homepage.

Using desktop view does nothing. Irony?

Yea mine keeps refreshing every time I try to to tap the drop down bar at the top...this update is still faster but I was hoping it would respect the desktop/mobile mode...

 

[MartLea]

My Lumia 620, 8.1 Dev Prev, GDR1 not Cyan is reported on 'whatismybrowser.com as IE11 on IOS 7!