This fragmentation of Lumia Denim is confusing!

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

"MS' statements" ?????

You can't even show links to "MS' statements" so why even reply, just to be contrary ?

Apologists need not (re) apply :straight:
Good luck :roll eyes: :roll eyes:

You didn't present at least one either.

 

[poddie]

I have an AT&T non-Denim 1520. I am on developer preview and am upgraded to the latest update available with that.

When I uncheck the developer preview setting in the app, and then check Extras & Info, it then says I have Denim.

I thought this was only supposed to be the case for devices that will not receive new firmware or the advanced camera features? Why does my device say I have Denim, when I haven't gotten the firmware update?

Somebody at Microsoft made a bad decision here in their labeling of this (these?) updates... it seems to me, if no firmware update has occurred, we shouldn't see a new firmware name listed. If the camera updates are not part of Denim, why don't they have their own name or version number? If I didn't know better, I'd look at my phone, believe I have Denim, and think it did nothing for my camera performance. There's a lot of confusion here, and frankly it IS Microsoft's fault for poorly communicating what the real situation is. Of course, the lateness of the "real" Denim camera update is only exacerbating the situation.

 

[Martsicky]

I have an AT&T non-Denim 1520. I am on developer preview and am upgraded to the latest update available with that.

When I uncheck the developer preview setting in the app, and then check Extras & Info, it then says I have Denim.

I thought this was only supposed to be the case for devices that will not receive new firmware or the advanced camera features? Why does my device say I have Denim, when I haven't gotten the firmware update?

It is a well-known bug. Nothing to get excited about. You're yet to receive a real Denim update for your 1520

 

[poddie]

It is a well-known bug. Nothing to get excited about. You're yet to receive a real Denim update for your 1520

I know about the bug, but I thought Windows Central reported it wasn't a bug, but rather that the low end phones really were on Denim because there is no firmware update for them. So it appears not only is that true, but it is also true that there is still a bug?

My main point is that there is very good reason for people to be so confused.

 

[a5cent]

"MS' statements" ?????

You can't even show links to "MS' statements" so why even reply, just to be contrary ?

Apologists need not (re) apply :straight:
Good luck :roll eyes: :roll eyes:

You already felt you had no other option than to make this personal? :-/ Ah well, I'll help you regardless:

Bloggers incorrectly interpreting Microsoft's support lifecycle policy is the root cause for most of these misunderstandings, and it's also where the whole "but MS promised support for x years" issue comes from, so I'll quote that. The first sentence is the main culprit:

"Microsoft will make updates available for the Operating System, including security updates, for a minimum of 36 months after the lifecycle start date."

source

Note that "make updates available for the Operating System", is not the same as "make updates available for devices" or better yet "develop and deploy OS updates to consumer's devices". The last take is what MS actually promising updates would have looked like.

What MS is actually saying is that they will make OS updates available to OEMs. Microsoft isn't even saying that they will make updates at all. They are only saying that if they do make an OS update, OEMs can count on MS keeping both the update and staff that can support it on hand (available) for the duration of the support lifecycle....

I can't do this type of thing for the dozens of documents and occasional blurb from an MS official, which somebody mistook as promise to them, from MS, that their personal device will be updated. I'd end up writing a book. It would be far easier for you to just find what you think clearly represents MS making such a promise and be done with it...

I hope we can move on...

 

[DavidinCT]

Windows is an OS, firmware are the drivers, so No, this is not how windows is updated.

Almost right, Sure think of the update as Windows Update on a PC when they add new features and fixes (AKA W 8 to 8.1), The FIRMWARE would be more like a BIOS update than drivers.

This enables features device wide, the OS has the support for it, but, the phone itself does not have the features enabled at the lowest level

 

[rory753]

My original post was to point out the lumia 830 is advertised to come with lumia denim. Lumia Camera 5.0 is described to work with lumia denim. Lumia Denim is the update to Lumia Cyan.
Here's the takeaway I get from this discussion:
1. Yes, there are updates coming to WP8.1. even denim.
2. Yes, apparently there is an update needed to enable lumia camera 5.0 on the lumia 830. This is the point that I think is missing from any discussion about lumia camera 5.0, or lumia 830.
3. Yes, iOS updates go to the respective idevices, whether they're good or not. one thing I think is good about there update system is they do have an option to roll back the update(at least last time I checked).

If anyone at Microsoft Mobile Devices is reading this, I hope they see that there is a way to improve the update process, and that any update process is far from ideal.

 

[a5cent]

If anyone at Microsoft Mobile Devices is reading this, I hope they see that there is a way to improve the update process, and that any update process is far from ideal.

MS doesn't really need us to tell them this. They know. Back in 2011, MS was hoping to take the same approach to updates that Apple has. They tried, but couldn't get U.S. carriers to play along.
Out of that ill fated approach was born the PfD program.
Once MS can also distribute firmware as part of the PfD program, which they are allegedly working on, WP's update process will be technically very similar to Apple's, but only for those of us that have enrolled in the PfD program.
It will be interesting to see in how their "Windows Insider program" for mobile devices pans out, and whether they'll be better at managing expectations this time around (are these beta updates or not?).

 

[bijak_riyandi]

My original post was to point out the lumia 830 is advertised to come with lumia denim. Lumia Camera 5.0 is described to work with lumia denim. Lumia Denim is the update to Lumia Cyan.
Here's the takeaway I get from this discussion:
1. Yes, there are updates coming to WP8.1. even denim.
2. Yes, apparently there is an update needed to enable lumia camera 5.0 on the lumia 830. This is the point that I think is missing from any discussion about lumia camera 5.0, or lumia 830.
.

Remember that Lumia Camera 5.0 was not yet available at the time Lumia 830 released. They said that the Lumia Camera 5 will be available along with the global Lumia Denim rollout.

About the allegedly needed update, the only way to confirm it is to compare the firmware version between the 830 used in the demo video back then and the current available firmware for 830.

If that wasn't the case, maybe Microsoft blocked the Lumia Camera 5 to be downloaded from an 830 for some other reason. Possibly optimization...