Too flakey to be relied on :(

[onlysublime]

alright, finally had time to take pictures...



here's the Surface keyboard compared to an HTPC keyboard. You'll notice the size of the keys are about equal (in fact, the Surface keys are a little bigger; however, the HTPC keyboard has gaps so it's less likely to make an error; if your finger is off on the Surface, you can accidentally hit 2 keys since they're flush but they're so big it's hard to miss)



You can go full speed on a Surface keyboard. The keys have good spring, they're large keys, they're backlit, etc.







here's the tiny keys of the T100. netbook sized keys. there's virtually no chance of fast touch typing on this keyboard. it's for the hunt and peckers or children. Not only are the keys tiny, the resistance is quite high and you have to expend more energy just to type. And because you have to strike harder to get the keys to register, combined with the fact that they're tiny, the error rate is really high. I'm not sure the picture tells the story. My fingers are actually barely able to stay on the key and actually often hang off the lower edge. So when you're trying to type 80-110 WPM (my speed range, after errors are accounted for), it drives you mad how little room for error there is on this keyboard. A lot of the employees we bought the T100 for complained all the time about the keyboard. They ended up hooking a traditional USB keyboard or a bigger Bluetooth keyboard.

The only horrible keys on the Surface keyboard are the arrow keys. They're also tiny and they're unresponsive to me (well, unresponsive on my Surface RT). Again, the only area I give the T100 a win is the faster web browsing. For my workflow, the original Surface RT wins. Again, I've never used the Surface 2 or even touched one. For the desktop apps that I would use on a work computer, I can't use them on the T100 either (Photoshop, Premiere, and Acrobat).

There are some things I wish I had with the RT: more browser options (ahem, Firefox...), desktop programs like Ditto (a clipboard manager), MediaInfo, etc. I would love some video players that could do everything (MKV, etc.). But for a work machine, my Surface RT is great (and like I said earlier, 3 of my coworkers picked up the original Surface RT because it was dirt cheap, came with Office 2013 with great touch support, and was very versatile within a work environment (love CamCard!!!)). It's great for presentations as well, whether you're 1-on-1 flipping through a PDF or whether you're doing an entire room and mirroring the Surface with a projector and doing PDFs or PowerPoints.

 

[conorn]

Just my few thoughts. My first S2 was plagued with issues - SoDs, disk errors, poor battery life, lock-screen freeze, driver nonsense. Being a tinkerer and IT pro I was happy enough to see what could be done. Eventually I did exchange the device. This one is much improved. I've only had one SoD-type event. I do have the early hardware failure, showing in Reliability Report, relating to the video device and associated errors and warnings - but SoDs seem under control now. Remaining issue is the phantom touches - hopefully that will be addressed soon. But overall, this device I can use reliably.

That said I still have a crazy amount of warnings in the event log. I know some say that isn't important and I pay too much attention to the logs ( I had one MS support tell me that the event viewer was only for developers!), but a warning is just that - a warning of something. I have a laptop and a desktop also running Windows 8.1 and they have nothing like the number of reports in their logs. The S2 hardware and drivers are still not up to scratch. Connected standby is, I think, the main culprit. MS need to do more work here.

WillysJeepMan - before you cast away your S2 I'd at least try an exchange device.

Finally, comparing the S2 to an iPad is not really the point, the S2 should stand on it own reputation. For its price-point it should work more reliably out of the box. This isn't some ?99 Android tablet. It's a premium device from one of the worlds largest companies.

 

[kristalsoldier]

I have been following this thread for sometime now. I can't seem to relate to the majority of problems that are being reported, which does not mean that the problems don't exist. It's just that I have not faced them. If I remember correctly, I did some tweaking for battery expenditure - I don't remember what I did though I do recall interacting with Paolo on this matter. Recently, I started obsessing about power consumption again. It turns out that the culprit was a USB Mouse (the MS Arch Mouse without Bluetooth) that I was using. Having removed the USB receiver, the matter has settled down and my Surface is back to its normal battery life.

The problem that I do have is that sometimes I feel frustrated that some applications that I would like are not available on the RT platform. Oh...and one other thing - having split a cup of coffee on my Type Cover 2, I had to buy a new one and it was expensive!!!!

But, I have not really have experienced any SoD issues, disc errors, screen freezes etc. At least not yet!!!

 

[Matt J]

Pretty much the only issue I have with my Surface 2 is the inability to sync Google Calendar with the calendar app. The inability of Windows 8.1 to use the open CalDAV protocol is ridiculous.

Other than that, I can't think of a single issue that has caused me concern.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

alright, finally had time to take pictures...

...

here's the Surface keyboard compared to an HTPC keyboard. You'll notice the size of the keys are about equal (in fact, the Surface keys are a little bigger; however, the HTPC keyboard has gaps so it's less likely to make an error; if your finger is off on the Surface, you can accidentally hit 2 keys since they're flush but they're so big it's hard to miss)

...

You can go full speed on a Surface keyboard. The keys have good spring, they're large keys, they're backlit, etc.

...

...

...

here's the tiny keys of the T100. netbook sized keys. there's virtually no chance of fast touch typing on this keyboard. it's for the hunt and peckers or children. Not only are the keys tiny, the resistance is quite high and you have to expend more energy just to type. And because you have to strike harder to get the keys to register, combined with the fact that they're tiny, the error rate is really high. I'm not sure the picture tells the story. My fingers are actually barely able to stay on the key and actually often hang off the lower edge. So when you're trying to type 80-110 WPM (my speed range, after errors are accounted for), it drives you mad how little room for error there is on this keyboard. A lot of the employees we bought the T100 for complained all the time about the keyboard. They ended up hooking a traditional USB keyboard or a bigger Bluetooth keyboard.

The only horrible keys on the Surface keyboard are the arrow keys. They're also tiny and they're unresponsive to me (well, unresponsive on my Surface RT). Again, the only area I give the T100 a win is the faster web browsing. For my workflow, the original Surface RT wins. Again, I've never used the Surface 2 or even touched one. For the desktop apps that I would use on a work computer, I can't use them on the T100 either (Photoshop, Premiere, and Acrobat).

Thank you very much for taking the time to post those photos. I had the opportunity to take a closer look at the T100 in person. Although the keyboard is indeed the same WIDTH as the TypeCover2, the HEIGHT/DEPTH is much shorter. By height/depth I'm referring to the distance from the end of the spacebar to the top of the function key row. That does make it a bit more cramped. Compared to my other mobile keyboards it isn't a dramatic difference however. The greater concern I have is the physical build quality of the T100. I understand that it is a intro level inexpensive device but it doesn't appear to be physically built well. In the end, I think that going to a T100 would be trading the software/OS issues of the Surface 2 for the physical issues of the T100. Software can be fixed with an update (or not), hardware can't.

There are some things I wish I had with the RT: more browser options (ahem, Firefox...), desktop programs like Ditto (a clipboard manager), MediaInfo, etc. I would love some video players that could do everything (MKV, etc.). But for a work machine, my Surface RT is great (and like I said earlier, 3 of my coworkers picked up the original Surface RT because it was dirt cheap, came with Office 2013 with great touch support, and was very versatile within a work environment (love CamCard!!!)). It's great for presentations as well, whether you're 1-on-1 flipping through a PDF or whether you're doing an entire room and mirroring the Surface with a projector and doing PDFs or PowerPoints.

Definitely. In a different thread on a different forum I discussing how I use my Surface 2, which includes 1-on-1 presentations and projector/big screen audiences.

I rarely use my Surface 2 as a tablet. The 16:9 AR is awkward. And so I spent some time considering whether or not an 11" netbook would serve me better than using a hybrid tablet. That could change if a 4:3 tablet running full Windows is produced.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I have been following this thread for sometime now. I can't seem to relate to the majority of problems that are being reported, which does not mean that the problems don't exist. It's just that I have not faced them. If I remember correctly, I did some tweaking for battery expenditure - I don't remember what I did though I do recall interacting with Paolo on this matter. Recently, I started obsessing about power consumption again. It turns out that the culprit was a USB Mouse (the MS Arch Mouse without Bluetooth) that I was using. Having removed the USB receiver, the matter has settled down and my Surface is back to its normal battery life.

Those are the little things that I'm talking about. Get the device working well, introduce something simple, and there's an issue. Troubleshoot the issue, find the cause, work around it. A system update then resolves the original issue so you go back to the way you used to work. But a subsequent system update reintroduces the problem causing another round of troubleshooting.

 

[conorn]

Just my few thoughts. My first S2 was plagued with issues - SoDs, disk errors, poor battery life, lock-screen freeze, driver nonsense. Being a tinkerer and IT pro I was happy enough to see what could be done. Eventually I did exchange the device. This one is much improved. I've only had one SoD-type event. I do have the early hardware failure, showing in Reliability Report, relating to the video device and associated errors and warnings - but SoDs seem under control now. Remaining issue is the phantom touches - hopefully that will be addressed soon. But overall, this device I can use reliably.

Spoke too soon, just had another SoD/Blackscreen. Closed lid, left office. Opened lid 10 mins later and nothing doing. Had to hold down power to reboot. Logs full of display 4101/4109 messages constantly every five seconds until I rebooted. Flakey and unreliable Once more and this one's going back too.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Spoke too soon, just had another SoD/Blackscreen. Closed lid, left office. Opened lid 10 mins later and nothing doing. Had to hold down power to reboot. Logs full of display 4101/4109 messages constantly every five seconds until I rebooted. Flakey and unreliable Once more and this one's going back too.

Sorry to hear that. I'm firmly convinced that an overwhelming majority of the issues are software/firmware related. There is probably 1 or 2 issues that are Tegra-related and not possible to fix with software. I've come to these conclusions because some system updates have resolved some of these issues only to be re-introduced by a later system update. (and from previous Tegra products that had chronic issues that remained unresolved for the entire lifecycle of the product)

I don't think that returning/exchanging units will resolve issues like SoD.

 

[PanWorks]

I have a purple TypeCover 2.

I had my first Blackscreen this weekend. Overnight my Surface 2 locked up and required me to hold down the power key to restart. I had my black TypeCover 2 attached when the problem happened, so it's clearly not just limited to Type Cover 1's as I implied (or even to purple TypeCover 2's ).

Despite this problem, I still love the form factor of the Surface 2, and I didn't encounter any other issues this weekend. Hopefully, my Surface 2 will remain relatively problem free for me.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I had my first Blackscreen this weekend. Overnight my Surface 2 locked up and required me to hold down the power key to restart. I had my black TypeCover 2 attached when the problem happened, so it's clearly not just limited to Type Cover 1's as I implied (or even to purple TypeCover 2's ).

Despite this problem, I still love the form factor of the Surface 2, and I didn't encounter any other issues this weekend. Hopefully, my Surface 2 will remain relatively problem free for me.

I do too! But I'm getting this feeling of Deja Vu all over again. I've seen this scenario play out with the Zune.:eck:

 

[PanWorks]

I do too! But I'm getting this feeling of Deja Vu all over again. I've seen this scenario play out with the Zune.:eck:

As a former Zune 80 and Zune HD owner, I understand your concerns.

This is purely conjecture, but I am really interested to see if/when the Surface Mini emerges. If Microsoft releases a Surface Mini with NVIDIA's Tegra 4 pen technology, I think that Surface 2 owners will see Microsoft work harder to clear up issues that affect the Tegra 4 chipset.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

A little update...

I looked a little deeper into the Asus Transformer T100. Spec-wise looks great. Aesthetics are pleasing to the eye. The keyboard size and layout are fine. The keyboard is very usable. Compared to a full-sized keyboard it is indeed smaller, but compared to other mobile keyboards, it is very similar in size and layout.

But a common theme in reviews (take from various retail sites) is the reliability of the hardware. Finicky microHDMI ports, the close proximity of the microHDMI to the microUSB caused concerns. Issues in driving the LCD and 2nd display were also noted a few times. Esoteric issues like driving a 2nd display via HDMI causes a drop in WiFi performance. Power buttons that got stuck, microSD cards ejection spring that causes the SD card to be difficult to remove. I drew the conclusion that purchasing the T100 to replace the Surface 2 would simply be swapping software-based reliability issues with hardware issues.

I took a step back to look at what I was trying to accomplish with the Surface 2, where it fell short, and what I would need in a replacement device.

SOFTWARE. For how I use my devices, there are many gaping holes in the available software for the Windows RT platform. I would need the new device to be able to run x86 software.

TABLET. Try as I did, 16:9 / 16:10 aspect ratio of the Surface 2 (of any tablet actually) is not usable as a tablet. Too cumbersome. Too wide in landscape (causing the onscreen keyboard to take up 3/4 of the screen). Too narrow in portrait (using the onscreen keyboard was very cramped). Also, in portrait mode the greater length made it more fatiguing to use than a 4:3 ratio tablet. Also, because of the SOFTWARE issue and the need to run x86 software, I was reminded that using legacy apps on the desktop in touch mode would be very cumbersome. Possible, but not preferable.

CONNECTIVITY/PORTS. Once I step outside of the iPad bubble, connectivity is a new vista to be exploited. The Surface 2 has a full-sized powered USB 3.0 port, and microHDMI slot. A simple microHDMI to HDMI cable helps support a 2nd display. The USB port supports every USB device that I've attached to it. The Windows tablet options (running full Windows) were nowhere near as useful in this regard.

I couldn't find an alternative tablet/hybrid that would address these issues better than the Surface 2. The Surface Pro/2 was dismissed because of the price and cooling fan. It is even more difficult to use as a tablet than the Surface 2 due to the greater weight and thickness. For the cost of the Pro I would much rather buy a Macbook Air. I'm not a fanatic of any company or platform, but I appreciate OSX as much as I do Windows and have the software that I need on both platforms.

THE NETBOOK-LIKE OPTION. Factoring all of the above into consideration, I had to ask myself if the device had to be a tablet form-factor for what I need to do. For a portable solution for study, writing, podcast production, presentations, and the other things I need for this next season of life, I concluded that I could definitely use a tablet but the technology isn't there yet. So I ended up going back to the future... a netbook.

Before the iPad was released, I owned a 7" and 10" EeePC netbook. woefully underpowered and underspec'ed hardware but in a mobile form-factor. They were painful to use but a necessity. Things have come a long way.

Although not technically a netbook by the classic definition (max of 10" screen), I found an 11.1" notebook that will serve my needs. I settled on an Asus X200MA notebook, regular price $279. For about the price of a Chromebook, got a notebook with a touchscreen display, 500GB harddrive, 4GB RAM, 1-USB 3.0 port, 2-USB 2.0 ports, full-sized HDMI port, full-sized VGA port, RJ45 (won't use), and combo headphone/mic jack, SD card reader, full Windows 8.1, WiFi, and webcam.

It's not a sexy or exciting piece of technology, but looks like it will serve my functional/practical needs. And that'll have to do for now.

Obviously compared to tablets this thing looks like a bloated brick. But the screen (1366x768) is bright and sharp. and the extra 1.1" over the last time I used a netbook really makes a difference.


Some things like the software issue on the Surface 2 can be addressed, and hopefully will, but other things like the aspect ratio will not. I'm keeping my Surface 2 in the hopes that the situation will be better in 6 months. I'm still a fan of the Surface 2 and hope that Microsoft will see this through, but in the meantime, I'm stuck using a more traditional netbook/notebook. (but I'll be sticking around to keep up on the latest Surface news and developments)

It's a long post but hopefully it was enjoyable to read, and maybe a little informative.

 

[Cruncher04]

Interesting. I was expecting that the grass is not greener elsewhere. Taking everything into consideration, the Surface 2 is an extremly reliable device. That holds in particular compared to my Dell Venue 11 Pro, where i have much more serious issues (software and hardware)
In my case, i too have a laptop in addition to my tablet simply because they fit different use cases. I am not a fan of "one device for everything" because you are going to make compromises in all corners.
For that reason i do not consider the laptop as a replacement device for my Surface and neither vice versa.

 

[jasqid]

My experience with the Surface 2 has also been solid (well, aside from some initial hiccups). But things have stabilized a lot now and it performs very well. The only thing that I remain dissatisfied with is the battery life - especially when surfing. Any pointers about that. Using the device on a daily basis with (Word + OneDrive + Mail + Calendar + Browser (2-3 tabs active)) seems to give me not more than 6 hours of battery life. Brightness at 40% (adaptive brightness on), USB-driven mouse (MS Arc) always on (for some reason, I suspect this may be the source of the problem though I have no proof - when I say always on, I mean I leave the micro USB thing in the Surface all the time regardless of whether or not I am using the mouse), WIFI on all the time, BT off and aside from the apps mentioned about not much else active and syncing. Earlier, I used to get around 8-9 hours. Something changed and I don't know what that is!

perhaps try a Bluetooth mouse and free up that port. May stop the battery drain too.

 

[kristalsoldier]

perhaps try a Bluetooth mouse and free up that port. May stop the battery drain too.

Yup...it was that USB receiver/ port. I have removed it and battery performance is back to normal! Eventually, I will end up getting the Arc Mouse (but the BT Surface Edition this time).