[W10M] Enable DNG Capture on Your Lumia Phone

[RumoredNow]

I've been using DNG on 640 XL ever since this http://forums.windowscentral.com/mi...save-lossless-raw-image-format-dng-640xl.html thread by @Derausgewanderte got posted.
For those with no BARC and DNGDISABLED entry, read the thread on how to enable it.

When manually editing your DNG, the final JPG you get is far better than the post processing done by the windows camera app.
I use DNG only for "special" shots even though I've got SD card.
According to the windows camera store page, devices 640, 640XL, 830, Lumia Icon, 930, 1520, 950 and 950XL have support for DNG. But it is not enabled.
It would be useful for enthusiasts if Microsoft enables this in future.

Awesome... Thanks for that link.

As I suspected:

Edit: A member contacted me that his phone did not show a Barc entry at all. If the hardware supports it you will have to add the Barc key and three subkeys with the registry editor.
Besides DNGDisabled you also have to add BarcVersion with string value 0.81, and IsEnabled with a DWORD of 1.

Proper editing of the missing pieces into the Registry should work.

I've been trying to find a volunteer to attempt just that.

[NOTE]This is experimental and voluntary. It should work. Proceed at your own risk.

If you arrive at "Interop Tools > Registry Browser > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > Software > OEM > Nokia > Camera"

And you have no "Barc" you should use "Add key" to create it.

Inside "Barc" use "Add key" to create "BarcVersion" "DNGDisabled" and "IsEnabled" keys.

"BarkVersion" needs to be set to these values:



"DNGDisabled" needs to be set to these values:



"IsEnabled" needs to be set to these values:

[/NOTE]

 

[Derausgewanderte]

The ability to do this has been around for some time. I posted this hack back in December but didn't get a lot of feedback then. I actually contacted Windows Central because I thought it deserved more attention. Finally somebody brings it to the forefront.

 

[anon(5841099)]

Right, this is kind of announced as something that will save your pictures from horrible post processing or something. If I may be a Debbie Downer so to say, not withstanding the effort you put into creating the thread and writing everything down. Awesome job on that.

The example you gave of the painting on the back of a kimono... There are a lot of assumptions involved on your part there. Yes, a DNG can contain a lot more info than the JPG version, but you have to figure out how to make the most of that information. You took the DNG, ran it through an app that has less than optimal RAW processing, then ran it through another app claiming it is now smaller and all unnecessary info is gone.

The thing is, the picture ended up being really soft and losing a lot, and I mean a lot, of detail. Really aggressive use of noise removal can kill any kind of detail in a picture. Branches of trees become smudges for example. Also, without knowing what kind of compression setting each app uses you have no way of judging the quality to file size ratio. Fotor could for example compress RAW to JPG with a quality setting of 100, while the in phone post processing creates a JPG with a quality setting of 85. Most people won't see any difference in the picture in 95% of the cases but file size will be quite different. In fact, applying all the same edits to the JPG from the phone and then saving full size at quality 90 gives you a 1,22MB picture. So you added a lot of extra work for almost no difference. The picture just looks a lot softer and with a lot less detail.

Anyway, this may sound like I'm trying to shoot all this DNG stuff down, but I'm just trying to point out that it is not a magic bullet. Using DNG requires some know-how to get the best out of your pictures. Use with caution, do some research. Or you will be disappointed.

P.S.: Post processing is subjective as well of course, so please don't take it as criticism of your picture. If you are happy with the result that's what matters, I just took your example because it shows that getting rid of detail in an image will reduce file size.

 

[RumoredNow]

Finally somebody brings it to the forefront.

Yeah, I'm just loud and pushy winktongue... Bits of it have been out there some time, just as you say. I missed your part, Derausgewanderte, until it was pointed out to me.

IMHO, it's good to have the flexibility.

Right, this is kind of announced as something that will save your pictures from horrible post processing or something...

...creating the thread and writing everything down. Awesome job on that.

Yes, a DNG can contain a lot more info than the JPG version, but you have to figure out how to make the most of that information....

The thing is, the picture ended up being really soft and losing a lot, and I mean a lot, of detail...

Post processing is subjective as well of course, so please don't take it as criticism of your picture....

Thanks for the input and the kind words about getting the thread going. And no sense of criticism was received, rather one of critique. It sounds as if you understand the difference as well as I do.

Definitely, I am still learning and one of the reasons I set up the thread was to help myself learn as well as hopefully helping others...

I don't look at DNG as a panacea, but as another tool and I'm happy to have it on my 640 where it may actually do more good than on my 1520 for many day to day shots. Not that I would ever sit and edit every shot. I did, however want to get an example in the thread so I used a handy subject and put something together in fairly short order. About the softening, most of that was intentional, and some of it due to shooting in low light with the result of a LOT of grain, even in the flash part of the bracket. Let's be honest, the lens on a 640 does not compare to Zeiss, OIS, PureView enhanced models. I liked the softening as I found it representative of the fabric medium and the pastoral theme of the painted silk. Other aesthetics might certainly be applied and there might be as many tastes as there are editors.

Of the 3 samples, the straight DNG to JPG output (at 100% as you guessed) from Fotor most closely represents what my eyes see of the subject. The JPG capture of the subject that I would have had from Camera without DNG is least favorable to me. Which, to me, is much of the point in having the DNG ability in your toolkit. And then I processed in Polarr to show some of the artistic license that might be applied to a file that retains more of the sensor data than the stock Camera JPG will offer...


If anyone is interested the DNG file I worked with can be had here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkvY2_b6DBA3ieNUrNHGsKEfD_qG4w

 

[Axeelant]

Ok just a few question since i see some picture experts in here, which i am not
On the photo it shows a DNG option set for 6MP shot. Is this on a lower spec camera phone, would my L930 have a higher MP rating available since it gives me a 16MP RAW file?

Also, can someone explain me a difference between RAW and DNG? Which is better for Adobe Lightroom?

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Ok just a few question since i see some picture experts in here, which i am not
On the photo it shows a DNG option set for 6MP shot. Is this on a lower spec camera phone, would my L930 have a higher MP rating available since it gives me a 16MP RAW file?

Also, can someone explain me a difference between RAW and DNG? Which is better for Adobe Lightroom?

on a higher MP camera, you would get a higher res DNG photo.

For the difference: https://photographylife.com/dng-vs-raw

 

[RumoredNow]

Ok just a few question since i see some picture experts in here, which i am not
On the photo it shows a DNG option set for 6MP shot. Is this on a lower spec camera phone, would my L930 have a higher MP rating available since it gives me a 16MP RAW file?

Also, can someone explain me a difference between RAW and DNG? Which is better for Adobe Lightroom?

Are you not seeing DNG on your Lumia 930 already? You should be. It would be the same as my 1520. 5MP jpg + 16MP dng if shooting 16:9 ratio and 5MP jpg + 18MP dng if shooting 4:3 aspect ratio. If you are seeing this, then the Reg Edit is meaningless to you as you already have these values in your registry.

RAW is a proprietary file type and different DSLR makers use differing file formats. So one program might open the Sony and Cannon RAW, but not the Fuji RAW. DNG is the "open standard" developed by Adobe so certainly Adobe products like Lightroom will open it. I'm sure you will find programs that won't open DNG even though it is meant to be universal.

Nokia (and now Microsoft) went with DNG files and I don't know that there is even a way to switch off DNG in your phone and over to a RAW capture. It's nomenclature as they do the same thing (dump the sensor data), but also a file standard.

 

[thron]

When I delete the photo from my camera roll, it only removes the unprocessed image. Is there a setting I missed that also enables removal of the .dng from the Camera Roll folder?

 

[RumoredNow]

When I delete the photo from my camera roll, it only removes the unprocessed image. Is there a setting I missed that also enables removal of the .dng from the Camera Roll folder?

I've not seen one or read about one. Certainly on my 1520 if I delete a pic all the extra files go out with it.

But I've already taken to managing the picture files with File Browser either on Phone or on PC when connected by USB.

 

[thron]

The 1520 already has DNG-enabled out of the box, correct?
I believe my 830 would purge all files upon deletion, too.

The 640 (with the registry modification) seems to leave them behind. Not a big deal, but it'd be nice to have the throw-away pics' free space right away, rather than waiting for USB management.

 

[RumoredNow]

Yeah 1520 has DNG out of the box and deletes the files.

You can use File Browser on the phone to clean up.

My new habit with Camera on W10M is to save all pics to Internal anyway. The processing of pics is very heavy in W10M and the SD card bus speed bottlenecks it fast. So I shoot to Internal and habitually move to SD and clean files on a regular basis anyway. That's with every phone.

 

[thron]

That's a good idea! I should switch mine to internal, too.

Slightly off-topic: Is there a way to save the HDR setting? I have to manually enable it each time I fire up the camera. It doesn't seem to remember the previously-used state.

 

[RumoredNow]

Slightly off-topic: Is there a way to save the HDR setting? I have to manually enable it each time I fire up the camera. It doesn't seem to remember the previously-used state.

Good question. Can't find it with a quick look around, but I'm sure it is in there.

Maybe someone else knows?

 

[hardywang]

To be honest I personally don't feel the need to take raw file on phone.

I have my DSLR and edit pretty much every single photo in raw format, so it is essential to me.

However if you use a phone to take pictures you need something quick. I also believe most "phone photographers" are not actual professional at e all.

I turned off raw capture on my Lumia 950xl after couple of days.

 

[RumoredNow]

I have my DSLR and edit pretty much every single photo in raw format, so it is essential to me.

Awesome.

I don't have a DSLR though and no plans to get one. I'm a hobbyist for sure. I like having the phone with me at all times as the convenient way to take pics whenever I want... Especially on vacation when you have so much else to juggle.

And trust me, when it is a vacation or a planned shoot I would not rely on the 640 even with DNG. My 1520, however, has proven itself more capable than my skills thus far and has not failed me except in the case of low light and DNG can help mollify that.

 

[thron]

I also believe most "phone photographers" are not actual professional at e all.

Definitely not a 'photographer,' in my case.
But taking the best possible photo when you're selling something, be it for ebay or real estate; a sharp & vibrant image can spark interest and lead to a quicker sale.

 

[hardywang]

Definitely not a 'photographer,' in my case.
But taking the best possible photo when you're selling something, be it for ebay or real estate; a sharp & vibrant image can spark interest and lead to a quicker sale.

Well, it's really personal preference. If you think the phone raw file is useful to you it's definitely a good thing to have.

 

[anon(5841099)]

The best camera is the one you have on you, whether you are a 'professional' or not. Enabling JPG+DNG capture can sometimes give you a chance to fix post processing. Example:


Windows Camera decided that this picture really needed a glowing cyan sky. The colour temperature is also quite cold compared to what you would see in real life.


Toning down the highlights got rid of the glowing sky (mostly, it still will never have the dynamic range of an average modern DSLR). Add a bit warmer colour temperature and sharpening/noise removal to your liking and done.

So yeah, it's a good tool to have. Just learn how to use it wisely otherwise you will end up just playing with sliders and be disappointed. Because the raw output of the sensor needs quite some work before you get a decent image.

 

[hardywang]

The best camera is the one you have on you, whether you are a 'professional' or not. Enabling JPG+DNG capture can sometimes give you a chance to fix post processing. Example:

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8838/27635607834_4cdf0c99d5_c.jpg
Windows Camera decided that this picture really needed a glowing cyan sky. The colour temperature is also quite cold compared to what you would see in real life.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8803/27635611484_57741cac74_c.jpg
Toning down the highlights got rid of the glowing sky (mostly, it still will never have the dynamic range of an average modern DSLR). Add a bit warmer colour temperature and sharpening/noise removal to your liking and done.

So yeah, it's a good tool to have. Just learn how to use it wisely otherwise you will end up just playing with sliders and be disappointed. Because the raw output of the sensor needs quite some work before you get a decent image.

Well said. A raw (dng) file is useless unless you know how to post-process it properly.

And I think it depends on phone, my 950XL produces dng file in about 20mb size. Think about the SD card size, it could be filled quickly.

 

[Saijin_Naib]

Good question. Can't find it with a quick look around, but I'm sure it is in there.

Maybe someone else knows?

I've not found it in the registry yet in the obvious places. It may be easier to turn up when InteropTools gets searching soon.