Well they did it....just go ahead and throw the ecosystem away.

[HeyCori]

really, that has to be the most stupid generalization I have ever witnessed. To extrapolate that only my friends out of all of the world, would consider Windows Phone because of XBL don't represent a sample set and just write them off is just ridiculous. You really can't be that naive so stop feigning it.

Sorry, but you're the one that started with your anecdotal evidence consisting of "your friends." Unless you have some actual facts and figures to back up your claim, then yes, your mythological group of "consumers" isn't something that Microsoft can base their business decisions on. Better yet, you could stop ignoring the sales numbers. If you did you would see that having Xbox Live is not selling Windows Phones. Nor is the Xbox Live companion app. Sales show that people are not asking for Xbox Live on Windows Phone.

Furthermore, stop pretending that we're talking about the complete Xbox Live service. Xbox Live on Windows Phone and the companion app isn't even a fraction of value you get from Xbox Live on the 360. I say this because you're starting a strawman argument. First you started with the companion app, now you're moving onto Xbox Live in general. Lets make it clear that Xbox Live on the 360 and Xbox Live on Windows Phone is not even remotely close to offering the same experience. It's a heck of a stretch to even suggest that.

Saying people want "Xbox Live" as it is on the 360 is different than saying they want "Xbox Live" as it currently is on Windows Phone. Sale numbers definitively show that they do not want Xbox Live as it currently is on Windows Phone. And until you have some actual figures, then your mythological group of consumers is exactly that - fake.

That's fine if you want to get into some hypothetical argument of what would happen if all of the features of Live moved from the 360 to Windows Phone. But this thread started with, and what I'm talking about, is what affect the companion app will actually have on sales of Windows Phones now that it's available on other platforms. My answer is still the same, nil. The companion app wasn't important then and it's not important now.

 

[HeyCori]

I'm pretty sure MS brass are not making these decisions....in fact it is difficult to tell that anyone at the top is making decisions that move the company forward on one common purpose.

Hands down the silliest reply in the whole thread.

 

[bigkevbosky]

Hands down the silliest reply in the whole thread.

Agreed - you'd think he's talking about RIM or HP or something.

Microsoft is making more money than they know what to do with. They're one of the most well run companies in tech. Just because Apple has rocketed past everyone else, doesn't mean other companies aren't succeeding.

I don't see how someone can look at all their product lines, see a unified design style, and assume people at the top aren't in complete control and moving forward with one common purpose.

 

[sting7k]

Stealth update for XBL on iOS adds all the Companion functionality we had exclusive.

Let's just go ahead and release Office and remove any other reasons for people to come to Windows Phone.

Bag of tools...is anyone running Microsoft?

Why does it matter? Microsoft is trying to sell the Xbox too. Smart Glass is going to be on just about everything. IMO it's good for Microsoft to not lock anyone into anything. I hate that.

I only see it as good that I can get the same experience on my iPhone and Lumia.

 

[ninjaap]

Why does it matter? Microsoft is trying to sell the Xbox too. Smart Glass is going to be on just about everything. IMO it's good for Microsoft to not lock anyone into anything. I hate that.
I only see it as good that I can get the same experience on my iPhone and Lumia.

Propriotery - I hate that too.

 

[sting7k]

Propriotery - I hate that too.

I think another thing no one seems to be considering is that Microsoft is could be viewing Windows Phone as merely an extension of Windows and not an entire platform like iOS/Android. With Windows 8 it looks that way. Where as the Xbox is a full separate platform that must be as compatible with as many other platforms as possible if they are going to start positioning it more and more against the AppleTV and other media boxes out there.

I also seriously doubt that having an exclusive app/feature for the Xbox is really a driver of WP sales.

 

[Reflexx]

As always when this topic comes up regarding any WP feature made available elsewhere the popular argument is that it's just one app, it's useless anyway, no one is going to switch for it, etc. On it's own probably not, but that's overlooking the reality of the fact that Windows Phone is not selling and it needs any advantage it can get, and features like this along with others are what gives WP its USP, take those away and you reduce those unique features and reasons to buy a WP in the first place. And if people don't have many reasons to buy chances are they won't, and that in the long run doesn't benefit any WP user.

The reality is that nobody knows how good an app is unless enough people use it.

MS needs to get these apps in peoples' hands. They need people to want these apps first.

That's one reason SmartGlass will be available on all platforms. A great app is useless if nobody knows that it's great.

The likely scenario I see is that MS will make a lot of great apps that are available for FREE on Windows Phone, while cost money elsewhere. Im not sure if that will happen with SmartGlass, but I do see that as the future. We can look at Halo:Waypoint as an example. It already has some of the features touted in SmartGlass. But if you want those enhanced features, and you don't own a Windows Phone, you have to pay up.

 

[Thuoudo]

Microsoft is a software company, first and foremost. Their only hardware (aside from mice, keyboards, etc) is the Xbox.

I'm sure no one is throwing away their Android because they don't have a game console to control with it.

Pointless to use the Companion app without an Xbox, and we know that MS would definitely rather sell you a console than a phone for continuing revenue's sake. SmartGlass may or may not be useless without an Xbox or HTPC running Windows, we'll see. I'd bet it will only interface with MS products.

 

[Reflexx]

really, that has to be the most stupid generalization I have ever witnessed. To extrapolate that only my friends out of all of the world, would consider Windows Phone because of XBL don't represent a sample set and just write them off is just ridiculous. You really can't be that naive so stop feigning it.

I don't know why you're calling his analysis stupid. You may say that it's too blunt. Maybe out a little mean. But he us pointing out a very common logical fallacy that you used.

Anecdotal evidence is just that; anecdotal. It's an example of a very small set that may or may not apply to a greater whole in large numbers.

If I said that everyone I know loved GM cars, does that mean that practically everyone loves GM cars? Does it even mean a majority do? Does it even mean a significant amount of the population do?

 

[theefman]

The reality is that nobody knows how good an app is unless enough people use it.

MS needs to get these apps in peoples' hands. They need people to want these apps first.

That's one reason SmartGlass will be available on all platforms. A great app is useless if nobody knows that it's great.

The likely scenario I see is that MS will make a lot of great apps that are available for FREE on Windows Phone, while cost money elsewhere. Im not sure if that will happen with SmartGlass, but I do see that as the future. We can look at Halo:Waypoint as an example. It already has some of the features touted in SmartGlass. But if you want those enhanced features, and you don't own a Windows Phone, you have to pay up.

Guess my question then is, if you can be in the MS ecosystem without WP, whats the point of WP then?

 

[bigkevbosky]

Guess my question then is, if you can be in the MS ecosystem without WP, whats the point of WP then?

That is the point - being more integrated in the ecosystem. Its why Apple makes iTunes for Windows. By your logic, Apple should make iTunes exclusive to Macs. Because why buy a Mac if you can get iTunes on Windows? But they don't do that because they know by limiting iTunes to the smaller footprint of computers, they hurt themselves.

By putting iTunes on Windows, they get Windows users into their ecosystem, and hope, eventually, the Windows user goes "ok its time to upgrade computers - I think I'll go Apple since my music, movies, books, etc will all work more seamlessly with their products". Would it NOT work with Windows? No, it works ok, just not as smoothly.

That's the idea Microsoft is trying to push here - get other platform users into the idea that their ecosystem offers value and it will work "better" on Microsoft devices like Windows Phone and Windows 8.

 

[ninjaap]

Guess my question then is, if you can be in the MS ecosystem without WP, whats the point of WP then?

To make phone calls, and increase Bing and IE traffic.

 

[theefman]

That is the point - being more integrated in the ecosystem. Its why Apple makes iTunes for Windows. By your logic, Apple should make iTunes exclusive to Macs. Because why buy a Mac if you can get iTunes on Windows? But they don't do that because they know by limiting iTunes to the smaller footprint of computers, they hurt themselves.

By putting iTunes on Windows, they get Windows users into their ecosystem, and hope, eventually, the Windows user goes "ok its time to upgrade computers - I think I'll go Apple since my music, movies, books, etc will all work more seamlessly with their products". Would it NOT work with Windows? No, it works ok, just not as smoothly.

That's the idea Microsoft is trying to push here - get other platform users into the idea that their ecosystem offers value and it will work "better" on Microsoft devices like Windows Phone and Windows 8.

I dont think your analogy works because apple HAD to release itunes on Windows otherwise the millions who would have bought ipods and were already using Windows couldnt use them. So they had no choice and even then, that alone would not be enough to sway people to macs, they would have to offer better integration than you would get on windows.

In the case of WP it doesnt look like you get any advantages by using a Windows PC, you can actually do a backup with the Mac client where on the PC backups are only performed when there's an update. Far from offering a better, integrated experience for WP users. You get the same sync and update experience so no advantage there. With things like Smartglass, Skydrive, bing and eventually office and other services going to competitors MS doesnt seem to be promoting the idea that those services work better with WP and a Windows PC.

And going back to your analogy it makes more sense to give users a reason to use your product rather than a competitors, which Microsoft did by offering the Mac sync client but is not doing by giving away WP exclusives.

 

[AngryNil]

the goal of growing WP's marketshare significantly is now something that MS has abandoned and its just there to enable MS to say they have a presence in the mobile space.

This makes zero sense.

Again negating any advantage for Windows Phone.

SmartGlass will have Windows-exclusive features.

 

[bigkevbosky]

I dont think your analogy works because apple HAD to release itunes on Windows otherwise the millions who would have bought ipods and were already using Windows couldnt use them. So they had no choice and even then, that alone would not be enough to sway people to macs, they would have to offer better integration than you would get on windows.

Ok, if that analogy didn't work for you, what about this one :

One of Microsoft's biggest money makers is Office. If they kept Office exclusive for Windows, and never released it on Mac, wouldn't that be a bigger push to keep people buying Windows based PCs? Why did they, and still do, release Office for Mac? Why are they going to be releasing Office for iPad - especially when they're about to push Windows 8 RT?

I guess we can agree to disagree, and you've made some compelling arguments, but we're just looking at it from different perspectives. You're looking at it purely from a Windows Phone point of view, and I'm looking at it from an entire Microsoft ecosystem. Windows Phone isn't going anywhere, I'm not at all worried about that. So if MS wants to release stuff multi-platform....well, ok. As long as I have it on my WP7 device, I'm good. I really don't think you have to worry about Microsoft "leaving" the mobile market.

I think you're worried that without WP7 growing, app selection will continue to be limited. And I think with the money invested by Microsoft and the integration Windows Phone will have with both Xbox and Win 8, WP7 will grow almost by default. We'll see in a couple of years who is right.

 

[theefman]

Ok, if that analogy didn't work for you, what about this one :

One of Microsoft's biggest money makers is Office. If they kept Office exclusive for Windows, and never released it on Mac, wouldn't that be a bigger push to keep people buying Windows based PCs? Why did they, and still do, release Office for Mac? Why are they going to be releasing Office for iPad - especially when they're about to push Windows 8 RT?

I guess we can agree to disagree, and you've made some compelling arguments, but we're just looking at it from different perspectives. You're looking at it purely from a Windows Phone point of view, and I'm looking at it from an entire Microsoft ecosystem. Windows Phone isn't going anywhere, I'm not at all worried about that. So if MS wants to release stuff multi-platform....well, ok. As long as I have it on my WP7 device, I'm good. I really don't think you have to worry about Microsoft "leaving" the mobile market.

I think you're worried that without WP7 growing, app selection will continue to be limited. And I think with the money invested by Microsoft and the integration Windows Phone will have with both Xbox and Win 8, WP7 will grow almost by default. We'll see in a couple of years who is right.

I think its different for WP because they are not in a good position relative to the competition that MS is releasing these products on. MS can afford not to release Office for Mac because that is not a huge revenue stream for them, but it helps them remain the number 1 productivity suite. They would still hold that position though even without a Mac version.

Now looking at Office for ipad, commenters like Mary Jo Foley have reported that there have been hot debates in Microsoft because some are opposed to releasing it because of the effect it may have on Windows RT tablet sales. This is the position WP is in, a newcomer into a market dominated by incumbents ios and android and just as some feel office for ipad will be detrimental for Windows RT, I have a similar view with regards to reducing the exclusive features of WP by releasing it on other platforms.

I get the point that overall its a benefit to Microsoft in mindshare and exposure, but in Windows Phone's case, with so many divisions seeming to put WP behind other mobile platforms, with its most dedicated OEM struggling and overall marketshare still miniscule I think diminishing the USP's of WP doesnt help it grow in any way, and ultimately as you say, apps and services will continue to be absent on WP and that is not going to help WP grow to significant numbers.

We shall definitely see, but with so many WP features not available in many regions, MS developed apps lagging in features found on other platforms, and the integration you mention not being exclusive to WP, my personal feeling is that MS could do much more to push it and its unique features over the competition.

SmartGlass will have Windows-exclusive features.

Windows 8 maybe, WP probably not, the ios Xbox live app has feature parity with the WP version, Smartglass is unlikely to have any WP exclusive features as MS themselves have said.

 

[AngryNil]

the ios Xbox live app has feature parity with the WP version

As a whole, XBL functionality is superior on WP due to integration, achievements and a proper collection of titles.

Smartglass is unlikely to have any WP exclusive features as MS themselves have said.

Where's your source?

 

[InfectedPhreak]

As an outsider, I have tested the companion app on my DInc and it's impressive... but it doesn't exactly "fit". It doesn't feel like it belongs, feels almost foreign. I wish I had a WP, nonetheless of what it does or doesn't have. It fits me, and I think that's what it really comes down to.

On the subject, XBL and the Companion App are small parts of the bigger ecosystem. Once you get the Xbox, the PC, and the phone... it'll fit. I just think once everyone gets their hands on... It'll change. At least, I hope so.

 

[cckgz4]

I ain't getting no stinking Xbox lol

 

[theefman]

As a whole, XBL functionality is superior on WP due to integration, achievements and a proper collection of titles.

Apart from achievements, and arranging your games in one place, which obviously the ios version won't do, the ios version has everything in one place, no need to go hunting for separate apps. If a new user didn't already know about them they would probably think WP doesn't actually have the companion app or avatar editor. As for integration, it comes built in, not much more beyond that.

Where's your source?

Microsoft Xbox SmartGlass: an in