What if Verizon is waiting for 8.1?

[mrlugo88]

Bingo. Everything else you said is besides the point. I'm here to discuss why WP8 is lagging behind other platforms on Verizon. Not complain.

No other way about it, we're getting a device that's going to be behind the pack in specs, and that simply sucks.

Except you used the specs argument in trying explain why this device is considered "late", and I'm basically saying specs will have nothing to do with it. I may have gotten long winded with it, but its still true. The specs on this phone will be more than enough. One more time, the X won phone of the year on many sites and came out with specs that were "worse" than the flagships from other makers. So, no, specs have nothing to do with this being considered late, or at least they shouldn't be used as one. It was explained perfectly above that this is a money thing and nothing more.

 

[Sean Stanley]

Don't forget, based on what MS has said, this phone will be upgradeable to WP 8.1, so there is no reason to wait. Unless you wanted the next round of "best hardware" which would be what - support for 4K resolution, curved screens, or dual boot? But, remember, once that technology hits the market, it will take Verizon at least a year to come out with it. So, I think as far as a premium Windows Phone goes, this is going to be it from Verizon this year.

 

[Keith Wallace]

Re: What if..

Then why did we have to wait so long for the Trophy? Or the 928?

Sorry, this is just business as usual for Verizon. It isn't them holding out for something great, it's just how they run.

With the 928, it made sense. AT&T had the 6-month exclusivity on the 920 in the U.S. That the competition got the alternatives around 6 months later (but never got an actual 920) seems like their releases were driven by that deal.

Waiting for WP 8.1, that doesn't make much sense. It would mean AGAIN releasing a WP device running on old hardware, since 8.1 will probably release about the same time the Galaxy S5 comes out, and it would bring the upgrade Snapdragon 805 to the forefront. It might be the reason, but it might also be the reason I never go back to Verizon, if that happens. Their inability to release compelling devices knows no bounds.

 

[despertador]

I also think that Verizon is just acting like normal... Although that's a possible reason, it just doesn't feel like what Verizon would do...

 

[pgg101]

US carriers seem to be slow for any phone other than iPhones. ATT just released the HTC update pushing it to Jelly Bean 4.2.2. BlackBerry released 10.2 (Android runtime upgraded to 4.2.2) last fall, but US carriers still haven't pushed it out. Even Verizon which carries the Z30 (v10.2) hasn't pushed 10.2 for Z/Q10s. Now BlackBerry is about to launch 10.2.1, no word if the American carriers will release it.

Sent from my BlackBerry Z30 using Tapatalk.

 

[John20212]

this phone is taking so long to come to market because Verizon wants it to have Windows 8.1?

That could explain why there are accessories and no phone yet. Holding out for the newest software.

Wishful thinking... maybe..

If Verizon wants WP8.1 on it, it would be a long wait for anyone interested in the phone. + it does not really make sense to wait for WP8.1 since they can just as easily push the update when 8.1 becomes available.

 

[IdemanEric]

Except you used the specs argument in trying explain why this device is considered "late", and I'm basically saying specs will have nothing to do with it. I may have gotten long winded with it, but its still true. The specs on this phone will be more than enough. One more time, the X won phone of the year on many sites and came out with specs that were "worse" than the flagships from other makers. So, no, specs have nothing to do with this being considered late, or at least they shouldn't be used as one. It was explained perfectly above that this is a money thing and nothing more.

All true, except, that most people don't read a bunch of tech sites. Most people consider a 2K screen better because it seems like it should be. Most people consider a faster processor... Well... Faster, without considering that the platform may use it differently. The "late" release of the phone is nothing short of an absurd marketing blunder. The phone WILL be buried by the others released in a similar time frame. The Moto X, is a great phone, however even though the tech blogs "gushed" over it the sales have been adequate at best. So Nokia, Microsoft and WP all condemn themselves to ho hum sales because they did not take advantage of the void from Thanksgiving to now that could have been filled. Bad sales means less developer support and less of everything in the future.

 

[psudotechzealot]

Wishful thinking, Verizon always release their phones last or later than expected.

 

[alv3st3r]

It's on sale in China now:

Taobao.com via Winp.cn

 

[mrlugo88]

All true, except, that most people don't read a bunch of tech sites. Most people consider a 2K screen better because it seems like it should be. Most people consider a faster processor... Well... Faster, without considering that the platform may use it differently. The "late" release of the phone is nothing short of an absurd marketing blunder. The phone WILL be buried by the others released in a similar time frame. The Moto X, is a great phone, however even though the tech blogs "gushed" over it the sales have been adequate at best. So Nokia, Microsoft and WP all condemn themselves to ho hum sales because they did not take advantage of the void from Thanksgiving to now that could have been filled. Bad sales means less developer support and less of everything in the future.

Well since most don't read these tech sites then they know nothing of this device, therefore it won't be late. As for us, we know the specs this phone are coming with are going to be plenty. Therefore, calling it "late" because of specs would be wrong. That's my point. And as far as developer support, as long as AT&T continue to get devices relatively quick the support will continue to be there and grow.

As far fumbling the release and what not I completely agree. Verizon is known to do that with many devices, not just WP8. As I've said, I can't imagine what would be holding this phone up. But my comments were more for those who seemed upset that we're getting a phone that's "behind" or who were upset enough to go to Android because they can't wait. I find both a little ridiculous.

 

[Indistinguishable]

Well since most don't read these tech sites then they know nothing of this device, therefore it won't be late. As for us, we know the specs this phone are coming with are going to be plenty. Therefore, calling it "late" because of specs would be wrong. That's my point. And as far as developer support, as long as AT&T continue to get devices relatively quick the support will continue to be there and grow.

As far fumbling the release and what not I completely agree. Verizon is known to do that with many devices, not just WP8. As I've said, I can't imagine what would be holding this phone up. But my comments were more for those who seemed upset that we're getting a phone that's "behind" or who were upset enough to go to Android because they can't wait. I find both a little ridiculous.

Well I'm getting a bit tired of seeing you say the exact same thing over and over again. So, two questions for you, mrlugo88.
1.) How long have you been a Verizon Wireless customer?
2.) How long have you been a Windows Phone user?

Thanks!

 

[Premium1]

Re: What if..

Then why did we have to wait so long for the Trophy? Or the 928?

Sorry, this is just business as usual for Verizon. It isn't them holding out for something great, it's just how they run.

Well because at first they were waiting to see how WP would sell and if they were going to carry it or not. Plus any phone verizon has an exclusive on they drag their feet on because they have said exclusive for a predetermined period of time in which other carriers cannot and will not get said device.

 

[Premium1]

It's on sale in China now:

Taobao.com via Winp.cn

Sadly verizon would still have to "approve it" for activation and seeing how they are not selling it yet I could see them dragging their feet if you were to buy it.

 

[mrlugo88]

Well I'm getting a bit tired of seeing you say the exact same thing over and over again. So, two questions for you, mrlugo88.

1.) How long have you been a Verizon Wireless customer?
2.) How long have you been a Windows Phone user?

Thanks!

I've been with Verizon for 9 years and been using Windows since the 928 came out. Absolutely love the platform. Of there are things that Android does that WP needs to catch up on, but overall, I enjoy it better.

 

[hopmedic]

Re: What if..

Then why did we have to wait so long for the Trophy? Or the 928?

Sorry, this is just business as usual for Verizon. It isn't them holding out for something great, it's just how they run.

Well because at first they were waiting to see how WP would sell and if they were going to carry it or not. Plus any phone verizon has an exclusive on they drag their feet on because they have said exclusive for a predetermined period of time in which other carriers cannot and will not get said device.

As much as I am also sick of waiting on Verizon, the long wait for Trophy was because Microsoft didn't have CDMA support in the OS until the Nodo update. Now why it took Verizon until May 26 to launch it when Sprint launched the Arrive on March 20, that's another matter. But the wait from October to some time in March was Microsoft's fault.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Re: What if..

As much as I am also sick of waiting on Verizon, the long wait for Trophy was because Microsoft didn't have CDMA support in the OS until the Nodo update. Now why it took Verizon until May 26 to launch it when Sprint launched the Arrive on March 20, that's another matter. But the wait from October to some time in March was Microsoft's fault.

It was testing issues with the Trophy and it's testing issues with the 929/Icon. It's not phone functionality in the OS, but how well it handles Verizon's network across the country. Before VZW releases a phone, it must past a big battery of tests (unless it is a Galaxy or iPhone - that's just because VZW doesn't want to be left out of the launch, and can't if they want the phone). The Droid Bionic was delayed a couple years ago due to LTE switching issues (and they really wanted to delay the Thunderbolt for the same reason, but they backed themselves into a corner with that one).

Verizon used the test 929s and sent some tweak requests back to Nokia to get them to function better and more consistently on their network. Now it's a matter of the phones being properly tweaked and them passing the tests, because they have to go through them again if they don't meet their standards. AT&T, Sprint, etc do not do the extensive testing that Verizon does to ensure phones work well with their networks. They do some, but if they did more they would have caught the iPhone antenna issues years ago instead of letting their customers suffer. I don't always like how meticulous VZW is because I'd like better selection and higher tech stuff sooner.

That's also the reason why AT&T gets more phones and faster - and why they got the 920 and the 1020, etc. They are more willing to release them when Nokia wants them, so they pay extra and get exclusives. Verizon is willing to do this, but they are not willing to meet an OEM's release date unless they are Apple or Samsung producing a Galaxy or Moto throwing them some money for the X. Verizon sells their network, not the phones.

The Icon is coming and it should be before 8.1. It may have cleared it's second batch of tests at this point. They won't give much notice when they release it.

 

[Premium1]

Re: What if..

It was testing issues with the Trophy and it's testing issues with the 929/Icon. It's not phone functionality in the OS, but how well it handles Verizon's network across the country. Before VZW releases a phone, it must past a big battery of tests (unless it is a Galaxy or iPhone - that's just because VZW doesn't want to be left out of the launch, and can't if they want the phone). The Droid Bionic was delayed a couple years ago due to LTE switching issues (and they really wanted to delay the Thunderbolt for the same reason, but they backed themselves into a corner with that one).

Verizon used the test 929s and sent some tweak requests back to Nokia to get them to function better and more consistently on their network. Now it's a matter of the phones being properly tweaked and them passing the tests, because they have to go through them again if they don't meet their standards. AT&T, Sprint, etc do not do the extensive testing that Verizon does to ensure phones work well with their networks. They do some, but if they did more they would have caught the iPhone antenna issues years ago instead of letting their customers suffer. I don't always like how meticulous VZW is because I'd like better selection and higher tech stuff sooner.

That's also the reason why AT&T gets more phones and faster - and why they got the 920 and the 1020, etc. They are more willing to release them when Nokia wants them, so they pay extra and get exclusives. Verizon is willing to do this, but they are not willing to meet an OEM's release date unless they are Apple or Samsung producing a Galaxy or Moto throwing them some money for the X. Verizon sells their network, not the phones.

The Icon is coming and it should be before 8.1. It may have cleared it's second batch of tests at this point. They won't give much notice when they release it.

If that is the case why with the galaxy are verizon last to release them? iPhones I will give you that, but verizon is always last to launch the galaxy devices. So being "left out" isn't really the case. But I agree with the rest of your post and if verizon released it and was plagued with issues and bugs users would be complaining saying they should have tested it better. Just relax people, it will come. it is an awesome device and with those specs running on WP even launching so much "later" it is still going to be a work horse device. This isn't android that needs octa-core processors to run smoothly.

 

[DustinRyan]

Re: What if..

It was testing issues with the Trophy and it's testing issues with the 929/Icon. It's not phone functionality in the OS, but how well it handles Verizon's network across the country. Before VZW releases a phone, it must past a big battery of tests (unless it is a Galaxy or iPhone - that's just because VZW doesn't want to be left out of the launch, and can't if they want the phone). The Droid Bionic was delayed a couple years ago due to LTE switching issues (and they really wanted to delay the Thunderbolt for the same reason, but they backed themselves into a corner with that one).

Verizon used the test 929s and sent some tweak requests back to Nokia to get them to function better and more consistently on their network. Now it's a matter of the phones being properly tweaked and them passing the tests, because they have to go through them again if they don't meet their standards. AT&T, Sprint, etc do not do the extensive testing that Verizon does to ensure phones work well with their networks. They do some, but if they did more they would have caught the iPhone antenna issues years ago instead of letting their customers suffer. I don't always like how meticulous VZW is because I'd like better selection and higher tech stuff sooner.

That's also the reason why AT&T gets more phones and faster - and why they got the 920 and the 1020, etc. They are more willing to release them when Nokia wants them, so they pay extra and get exclusives. Verizon is willing to do this, but they are not willing to meet an OEM's release date unless they are Apple or Samsung producing a Galaxy or Moto throwing them some money for the X. Verizon sells their network, not the phones.

The Icon is coming and it should be before 8.1. It may have cleared it's second batch of tests at this point. They won't give much notice when they release it.

I do feel reassured knowing Verizon does more extensive testing, but both of my parents have 928s and the call quality is pretty terrible. We also live in an area that has really good 3G and LTE for Verizon and my old little iPhone 4S (waiting to get the Icon) sounds just fine. After so much testing, I kinda expected better results for phone calls. But as far as the device goes for doing everything other than being a phone, it worked out great for them.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Re: What if..

If that is the case why with the galaxy are verizon last to release them? iPhones I will give you that, but verizon is always last to launch the galaxy devices. So being "left out" isn't really the case. But I agree with the rest of your post and if verizon released it and was plagued with issues and bugs users would be complaining saying they should have tested it better. Just relax people, it will come. it is an awesome device and with those specs running on WP even launching so much "later" it is still going to be a work horse device. This isn't android that needs octa-core processors to run smoothly.

I didn't know that they're the last to release Galazy devices. I don't have any interest in them, so I never really follow the releases. I just know they exclusivity stuff doesn't happen to them. If there's a delay with Galaxy compared to other carriers then it all boils down to testing. I know the iPhone they must release on certain dates due to contracts, though Apple grates on the VZW people quite a bit. I've heard AT&T and others are the same. There's a lot of talk inside Verizon about the end of contracts (VZW expects that contracts may cease by the end of this year due to T-Mobile and now AT&T responding, though I'm sure they'll enforce existing contracts, but I know they're working on a plan similar to the month to month that T-Mobile offers where the price drops when the phone is paid for) and how it will impact Apple. They expect the prices of most phones to come down and Apple to struggle when carriers are no longer subsidizing the high price. When customers must pay the full price and actually SEE the full price, they tend to focus more on the value offered. I've heard speculation from Verizon sales people that they think MS has a distinct advantage once they acquire Nokia's phone business. Samsung, LG, HTC, and Apple are all focused on hardware margins to some extent. They are all hardware makers and that is really their business. Each aims for high margins due to the prices being hidden from consumers. Those margins will drop when subsidies from cell carriers do. Even so, Microsoft has a distinct advantage because their business is more diversified. They have Office, Windows, Enterprise, Azure, etc. While no one expects them to operate the phone business at a loss, they are expected to shoot for lower margins and are able to do so because of their diversity.

So as carrier subsidies disappear, Microsoft may be positioned to offer the best value to consumers that suddenly have to pay for the whole phone. Hypothetical here, but what if the consumer can get a Lumia Icon for $399, and iPhone 5S for $599, a Galaxy S5 for $499, a HTC One for $449? I actually expect those prices to go much lower because the margins are actually crazy high on subsidized phones. What if the Lumia is $299? Again, hypothetical, but the person in the know at VZW suspects that Microsoft may be the first to drop prices on high end phones on unsubsidized deals. They'll have to be careful to not go too far so they don't alienate other OEMs that they do want to make WP devices, but it is certainly expected that ALL of them will undercut Apple by a wide amount. That may greatly disrupt Apple's US marketshare.

 

[DustinRyan]

Re: What if..

I didn't know that they're the last to release Galazy devices. I don't have any interest in them, so I never really follow the releases. I just know they exclusivity stuff doesn't happen to them. If there's a delay with Galaxy compared to other carriers then it all boils down to testing. I know the iPhone they must release on certain dates due to contracts, though Apple grates on the VZW people quite a bit. I've heard AT&T and others are the same. There's a lot of talk inside Verizon about the end of contracts (VZW expects that contracts may cease by the end of this year due to T-Mobile and now AT&T responding, though I'm sure they'll enforce existing contracts, but I know they're working on a plan similar to the month to month that T-Mobile offers where the price drops when the phone is paid for) and how it will impact Apple. They expect the prices of most phones to come down and Apple to struggle when carriers are no longer subsidizing the high price. When customers must pay the full price and actually SEE the full price, they tend to focus more on the value offered. I've heard speculation from Verizon sales people that they think MS has a distinct advantage once they acquire Nokia's phone business. Samsung, LG, HTC, and Apple are all focused on hardware margins to some extent. They are all hardware makers and that is really their business. Each aims for high margins due to the prices being hidden from consumers. Those margins will drop when subsidies from cell carriers do. Even so, Microsoft has a distinct advantage because their business is more diversified. They have Office, Windows, Enterprise, Azure, etc. While no one expects them to operate the phone business at a loss, they are expected to shoot for lower margins and are able to do so because of their diversity.

So as carrier subsidies disappear, Microsoft may be positioned to offer the best value to consumers that suddenly have to pay for the whole phone. Hypothetical here, but what if the consumer can get a Lumia Icon for $399, and iPhone 5S for $599, a Galaxy S5 for $499, a HTC One for $449? I actually expect those prices to go much lower because the margins are actually crazy high on subsidized phones. What if the Lumia is $299? Again, hypothetical, but the person in the know at VZW suspects that Microsoft may be the first to drop prices on high end phones on unsubsidized deals. They'll have to be careful to not go too far so they don't alienate other OEMs that they do want to make WP devices, but it is certainly expected that ALL of them will undercut Apple by a wide amount. That may greatly disrupt Apple's US marketshare.

Basically adopting the same model the rest of the world uses, which, like you said, would be great for Microsoft. Bad for Apple. In theory. The opposite could happen and everyone here is still so high on Apple that they will just get a second mortgage on their homes and sell their children to afford iPhones, like people do currently just to get Mac computers (which I don't recommend for low income households).

My girlfriend lives in Estonia, and she said people there are much more open to Windows phone for this exact reason. Price. Android is still king, and the iPhone is obviously still popular, but people are generally more open to Windows Phone. It's good to see. Oh, and my girlfriend did end up getting the Lumia 1020, which she took to Disney World recently when we went there on vacation, and those fireworks look even better on that spectacular camera than my puny iPhone 4S by far! So jealous, haha.

I'd be open to cheaper monthly bills and paying for phones outright like the rest of the world. It's a hefty price to pay up front, but the price we pay monthly over 2 years is more costly than what the actual full price of the phone is, so I will welcome change. But really, this industry needs a company like T-Mobile to scare the bigger guys. This duopoly is crazy and needs reform.