Why all hate microsoft windows phone?

[vezycash]

my x535 had make me cry many times .

Bought one for my mum last year, it made me regret doing so. I never knew of phantom touch issues until I bought it. It's a pity the 640 is only sold for cheap in US, maybe canada.

 

[a5cent]

The masses usually don't question something they have read on multiple websites, and so the hivemind grows.

too simple.

MS is not just a victim of the media hive mind, although that is certainly one component. More than anyone else, it is MS themselves who screwed up though.

First and foremost by assuming (for too long) that the PC would remain at the centre of everyone's computing experience. It's hard to decide what the second biggest blunder was. There is so much to choose from. Possibly it was MS' utter failure to innovate. WM6.x was stagnant for years, which lead to a crisis induced explosion of innovation with WP7, only for them to revert back to stagnation, more often than not removing innovative ideas from the OS, rather than improving, building upon, or adding to them.

 

[ahmedamash]

Bought one for my mum last year, it made me regret doing so. I never knew of phantom touch issues until I bought it. It's a pity the 640 is only sold for cheap in US, maybe canada.

Yeah, the touch of my 535 is crazy Microsoft said its a software but thats the cheap touch panel used by Microsoft for increasing their profit, I recently brought new 640xl thats the best phone i ever got now i am happy using it as my daily driver.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I can't speak to usage data, only my perspective.

Since moving to Windows 10 on a touchscreen laptop, my App usage on desktop is on the rise. It may be partially fueled by tablet usage habits, but that isn't the whole story. Convenience and ease definitely play a part as well. Don't get me wrong, Mobile has definitely spurred App-centric behaviors, but I also think it has grown beyond Mobile. I believe Windows 10 is leveraging it well.

Apps I use very often on Desktop:

• Weather (Searching for a more robust app, most UWP weather Apps let me down in the Live Tile department. I want moar, not less)
• NOAA High-Def Radar (You'll have to pry this one out of my cold, dead hands.)
• News (Fast feed.)
• ISeeVM (Brilliant, get your VVM on desktop.)
• Cortana (Yes, she's indispensable to me now. I never could be bothered with Google Now, it never engaged me and if it was on my desktop it would probably gather dust... Some might argue Cortana on desktop is not an app, I would argue it is.)
• Store (Duh, it's where the apps live.)
• Slack (Prefer it to browser by far.)
• Snip (Powerful capture and annotate tool.)
• Polarr Pro and Fotor (Photography editors.)
• Calculator (The conversions are great too. Handier than a browser tab by far as you lay the app right on top of the work you are doing.)
• Maps (I do a lot of location research at times and it is great to have the app and sync across devices.)
• Health Vault (Easier to review on desktop than mobile.)
• Games (As a casual gamer I'd rather have Apps I can use across different devices than install PC games.)

Two years ago my App usage on computer was practically nonexistent. Fast forward to today and it is now my habit to reach for Apps. The intelligent cloud is really making the App model worthwhile on PC.

Interesting.

I think the difference here is that you use a tablet and then transferred your habits to your PC. I think that would be an interesting way for MS to approach things but the sad reality is that most people fire up a PC to do certain tasks. Few think about desktop apps and whether they're useful for them.

With PC sales stagnant I think the bigger issue is getting people back on to a PC experience with desktop apps. Those who still use PCs on a daily basis would typically use them for their power and because they have software that they like. I think this is where the UWP idea kind of fails. Unless you're all in with Windows 10 it really doesn't work.

To me, and this is purely my personal take, the biggest mistake MS made was going back to a desktop look with Windows 10. If you want people use and view apps on a PC the interface has to be different. Having a desktop isn't an app friendly environment to me. Bringing back the Start menu was a huge mistake in my opinion. All it does is hide the benefits of Windows 10. It hides the tiles. It's not a modern OS look in my eyes. I think they were going the right way with the look of Windows 8 and 8.1. Windows 10 to me is backwards.

Anyway, let's see what happens maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Narathan]

Interesting.
To me, and this is purely my personal take, the biggest mistake MS made was going back to a desktop look with Windows 10. If you want people use and view apps on a PC the interface has to be different. Having a desktop isn't an app friendly environment to me. Bringing back the Start menu was a huge mistake in my opinion.

Even though I agree, considering the gigantic backlash Windows 8 got from consumers I understand why they went back to the oldskool start menu and desktop. Windows 8 was too complex for it's time (I know that sounds weird, but people don't like change).

IMHO, once the 32 bit programs die out or get turned into store apps, only then will people realize the benefit of UWP. It's easier to update, probably a lot harder to crack and hopefully beter to manage. It reminds me a bit of MacOS, where entire programs are just sitting in their own container (DMG I believe?). Ofcourse I could be wrong since my last experience with Apple was 6 years ago.

But coming back to Windows 10 Mobile... There's two personal reasons I'm having trouble with the platform and maybe one of the two are shared with a lot of you. The first problem is unexplainable bugs. For example, some of my live tiles update all the time, yet others update after TWELVE HOURS... and some simply refuse to update. And this is after checking the battery saver and background running etc. I can resize the tile and it refreshes for a while, but it stops eventually. This is just sloppy, I don't care who's fault it is. Why are other tiles refreshing without a problem? shouldn't this be top priority? Live tiles are what makes the OS special and half of them don't even work.

The second problem is that the development team seems very, how do you say it nicely... Enthusiastic? They don't communicate well. Some of their support staff tell us anniversary update was supposed to drop on august 9th, then Dona and another engineer tell people not to believe everything on the internet. Then they don't tell us when the anniversary update is supposed to land? Not even an explanation!

Look, I absolutely love Windows and Mobile and I'd love to see them gain traction, recognition and all that positive jazz. But they NEED to fix their way of interacting with the userbase. I've done several leadership courses over the years and the most important thing I've learned is that you need to give feedback to your people. If somebody informs me of a problem they've encountered and, after I fixed it, don't tell them I've fixed it... Well, guess what? They will feel neglected and maybe don't even know I've fixed it in the first place, so they get angry with me for "not listening to them". Same goes for explaining why stuff is broken or delayed. If Dona replies with a cryptic "Once its done, we'll let you know " I can understand that people, including me, don't feel like they're being taken seriously. :eck:

I think it all boils down to communication at this point. They "promised" that every WP8.1 device would get W10M. Halfway the preview, they dropped support on older devices because they simply didn't have the hardware to power the resource-heavier W10M. It makes perfect sense, its good they did... But they should've never claimed that every WP8.1 device was going to get W10M. And even if they never claimed it, the media completely ripped them to shreds over this. Microsoft seriously needs to choose their wording differently and stop being vague. If you say "maybe" people will see it as "yes" and get disappointed if it turns out to be a "no". If you'd say "it depends on certain aspects, details follow", and then they could explain their reasoning for, let's say, removing certain phones from the RS1 upgrade. It's got to do with hardware but they never really explained their philosophy behind that decision, leaving people guessing and making false claims as "they don't care" or "they're forcing us to upgrade!"

If I had a say in it, I would tell Microsoft to launch a dedicated blog section where the process of development was being discussed. There's no shame in telling what obstacles you ran into. You've got insiders that have programming skills, maybe they can help you figure something out. Same goes for UX/UI designers that share a different vision and maybe even inspire some of the designers at Microsoft. They keep saying they are creating the best OS together with the people that use it. Hmm. Can't say I feel the same way with how Mobile is being made. Why is there no equalizer on third party phones for example, while every phone on the planet that runs iOS or Android does? even WP7 had this feature. People have been asking for this feature since WP8.0 and as of yet, only the Lumia phones seem to have this.

Let's just hope Mobile gets some much needed love soon. I'm so frustrated that I have to switch back to android again because of missed phone calls, email that don't arrive on time, live tiles that hang or black screens and reboots that I have to suffer from. I love tinkering but I hate it when people get angry with me because they can't communicate with me.

It's all about communication if you ask me. Sorry for the long rant. I'm all out of coffee.:angel:

 

[Bobvfr]

What about this idea called Continuum, currently my 950XL and Surface Pro 3 are sitting on my desktop next to my desktop.

My desktop is in desktop mode, my SP3 in tablet mode so although I can get to the desktop if I want to, it is now (Since the Anniversary update) giving me a really good tablet experience and my phone is showing the standard phone view.

Yet on all of these devices I have a core of the same apps, all linked to my cloud account so have pretty much the same data so I can seamlessly (Almost) go from one device to the other without thinking.

As to apps on desktops, I wouldn't be without them, sure on my phone I have a BT (That's British Telecom) mobile app, but I don't have that on my desktop or SP3, but their Wi-Fi app is on my phone and SP3, but again I don't carry my desktop around much so didn't put it on there.

Yes on my desktop I have a "Program" called Adobe Elements that isn't on my other devices, but in general I would always choose a decent UWP over a standard (8.1 type) for most things.

OK I tend to stick with the MS supplied apps like People, Groove Mail, Office and now the Skype preview, but Huetro, Star walk 2, Netflix, ToView, Tunein Radio, Accuweather, are on all my devices and I think MS have got it pretty right the way W10 is going (With of course the usual disclaimer that they still have loads to get right yet). And although I log into my bank account on my desktop using the browser and a mobile app on my phone, I would still download the app to the SP3 and desktop if it became a UWP for simple stuff like a quick peak at my balance.

EDIT: I forgot, YES I also want Skype UWP, Huetro, Skywalk, and others on my Xbox One as well, I already use Netflix and Tunein Radio so why not Maps, so I could show my wife a route without her having to stand over my back at the PC.

 

[N_LaRUE]

^ As I already pointed out, those who are 'all in' it works for them because they transfer between them but how many people who use a PC own a WP or Surface device? That was my main point. Most who use Windows for 'when they need to' don't care about desktop apps.

As for Continuum, again, an 'all in' person benefits the most.

It's like an 'all in' on Apple or and 'all in' on Google. Each is a bit different but similar.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Even though I agree, considering the gigantic backlash Windows 8 got from consumers I understand why they went back to the oldskool start menu and desktop. Windows 8 was too complex for it's time (I know that sounds weird, but people don't like change).

IMHO, once the 32 bit programs die out or get turned into store apps, only then will people realize the benefit of UWP. It's easier to update, probably a lot harder to crack and hopefully beter to manage. It reminds me a bit of MacOS, where entire programs are just sitting in their own container (DMG I believe?). Ofcourse I could be wrong since my last experience with Apple was 6 years ago.

Never used Apple products so can't say much there.

As for Windows 8/8.1, I agree totally that they were a big change and I know people have this issue with change. However, I think it was more to do with the way the shift between desktop and Start screen worked rather than anything else.

Instead of thinking 'desktop' just think 'interface'. Though I know it's not easily achieved but my thought was that the desktop should be changed completely. Think more like a 'space' for programs to run in their own 'window' rather than it being on the desktop. Think of the desktop not exiting at all. No icons. Your launching is through the tiles. The Start menu, if you want to call it that, is the tile interface. It swipes in from top or bottom or side. It's configured how you want it. Same for notifications. Apps are just that, apps regardless.

That was my thinking. It may seem a bit out there, but so was a tablet not too long ago.

 

[Bobvfr]

^ As I already pointed out, those who are 'all in' it works for them because they transfer between them but how many people who use a PC own a WP or Surface device? That was my main point. Most who use Windows for 'when they need to' don't care about desktop apps.

As for Continuum, again, an 'all in' person benefits the most.

It's like an 'all in' on Apple or and 'all in' on Google. Each is a bit different but similar.

So don't use them, but the world is changing and sitting in a Windows 7 world whilst the rest move to mobile and tablet (And I still think the desktop has many uses, that's why I have one) is a dead end and that is what MS cannot afford to do.

 

[ahmedamash]

When i install windows 8.1 from my 7 i fell new and refreshing design it take time to get to use of it i think people are not ready for it and it does not get popular as win 7 was thats why microsoft again stick to basic with win 10.

Thats what I think maybe it would be wrong.

 

[N_LaRUE]

So don't use them, but the world is changing and sitting in a Windows 7 world whilst the rest move to mobile and tablet (And I still think the desktop has many uses, that's why I have one) is a dead end and that is what MS cannot afford to do.

I have W10 at home for my two laptops and SP3.

At work I use W7 as do a lot of people. Some are still on Xp at work. Can't do much about that.

Though we've sort of shifted from the original OP, the question was about using UWP as a means of gaining developer support. Which brought about the question of desktop apps and how many people use them as this is the main way in which to attract developers. The point was that many people who use a PC probably don't use desktop apps or UWP apps.

My point is that if you're an 'all in' person with the Windows platform, you're more likely to use UWP apps. Thing is not many people are 'all in'.

That was all. I know things are changing. They've been changing since I started using computers over three decades ago.

 

[Bobvfr]

Maybe I am more "Wired" for the way MS is going, in 1997 I started a "FirstClass" server in a small community, at the start it was email and conferencing and online single or group live chatting, my users downloaded the "Client" software, but all the emails and conferencing were held on the server (It wasn't called the cloud then), you could of course sync stuff to your PC for offline. It became much more, users could use a "Document" and type in it and it rendered as a web page, store stuff from their PC to the server, their PC died, no problem, just download the client to another PC and off you go, can't do that, just sign in on the web from anywhere in the world (And yes you could use mobiles but way before smart phones).

I shut it down several years ago for many reasons.

Here we are in 2016 and MS (And especially Skype) are only just catching up (Still nowhere compared to FC when it comes to ease of producing web pages and sharing them without having to send links etc) but finally I am beginning to feel like I have proper interconnected services again.

Even for the folks who aren't "All in" I think you are very wrong to dismiss the cloud and UWP's, people who walk into PC World (UK electrical supplier) for a new PC, laptop, tablet, and in time a pocket PC (Phone) don't want complicated, they want apps, easy download, run across devices and the web, click and go (Anywhere), PC dies, no worry you haven't lost anything as it's all there on the servers (How many people did a full backup before their last major update, be honest).

Even my wife who only has to touch a PC for it to die, can file in a filing cabinet but hasn't got a clue when it comes to a computer (Files spread everywhere, never a chance of finding anything) can see the simplicity of her 830, Surface Pro and Xbox One working with the cloud and UWP's.

Yes there are going to be some people who only want proper "Programs" and data only stored on their PC, but again it comes back to choice, and as far as I can see, you can still work that way if you want.

 

[Bobvfr]

And yes we have wandered a bit from the OP, but this is where I really believe MS can jump ahead (OK on Skype they have tried there hardest to go backwards so many times) and I think Windows on phones is potentially now ahead of the rest and still has a very good chance, people will still hate it, but who cares, if Nokia die hards, Android and Apple users don't like where MS is going, if they get it wrong (And I don't think they have this time) we will move on, the future is coming whether we like it or not.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Maybe I am more "Wired" for the way MS is going, in 1997 I started a "FirstClass" server in a small community, at the start it was email and conferencing and online single or group live chatting, my users downloaded the "Client" software, but all the emails and conferencing were held on the server (It wasn't called the cloud then), you could of course sync stuff to your PC for offline. It became much more, users could use a "Document" and type in it and it rendered as a web page, store stuff from their PC to the server, their PC died, no problem, just download the client to another PC and off you go, can't do that, just sign in on the web from anywhere in the world (And yes you could use mobiles but way before smart phones).

I shut it down several years ago for many reasons.

Here we are in 2016 and MS (And especially Skype) are only just catching up (Still nowhere compared to FC when it comes to ease of producing web pages and sharing them without having to send links etc) but finally I am beginning to feel like I have proper interconnected services again.

Even for the folks who aren't "All in" I think you are very wrong to dismiss the cloud and UWP's, people who walk into PC World (UK electrical supplier) for a new PC, laptop, tablet, and in time a pocket PC (Phone) don't want complicated, they want apps, easy download, run across devices and the web, click and go (Anywhere), PC dies, no worry you haven't lost anything as it's all there on the servers (How many people did a full backup before their last major update, be honest).

Even my wife who only has to touch a PC for it to die, can file in a filing cabinet but hasn't got a clue when it comes to a computer (Files spread everywhere, never a chance of finding anything) can see the simplicity of her 830, Surface Pro and Xbox One working with the cloud and UWP's.

Yes there are going to be some people who only want proper "Programs" and data only stored on their PC, but again it comes back to choice, and as far as I can see, you can still work that way if you want.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against the cloud or UWP. I use 'the cloud'. I have my own NAS which is cloud enabled. I also use Onedrive and Google Drive. My photos are backed up automatically to Google Photos, which I can also access via Chrome browser anywhere in the world so long as I'm logged in. So I do understand the power of 'the cloud' and the ideas behind UWP.

I think you missed my point though. If you're all in working with Windows 10, you're likely to benefit the most out of UWP. However, if you have a Windows 10 PC, an iPhone and say a Android tablet you're less likely to see the benefits of UWP and less likely to use Windows desktop apps. That's what I meant by 'all in'.

Most people these days will use cloud services to some extent because they have a smartphone and/or a tablet. Though some may appreciate it more than others. A lot of people use Apple products and use their cloud services across their devices because Apple likes it that way.

To some, a PC is used at work and a smartphone majority of the rest. It's the reason why PC sales have floundered and tablet sales are not as great as they used to be.

MS needs to change the image of the PC and what it means for their ideas to work. That means changing perception of what computing is and how it's used. That's going to take a lot of time. Part of the problem is getting companies on board and getting them onto W10. Until that happens I think it will continue to be a lukewarm reception by most people.

Also, just FYI, I live in the UK.

 

[535dinesh]

I switched from Windows phone to android just bcoz there was no quality app in store. Again its about quality and not about quantity. Few examples where Twitter, Uber, Ola, imobile, Amazon. These are all daily necessary apps

 

[emgi2]

Windows phones are not dead. People just post comments: Windows phones are dead becouse they never owned them. True is: Windows phones are going to be popular. For me is Windows phone Masterpiece but developers, not all dont want to make apps and games for them. But still for me is best in developing phones Microsoft, on second place are Smartphones and on the last place is IOS

 

[ahmedamash]

Windows phones are not dead. People just post comments: Windows phones are dead becouse they never owned them. True is: Windows phones are going to be popular. For me is Windows phone Masterpiece but developers, not all dont want to make apps and games for them. But still for me is best in developing phones Microsoft, on second place are Smartphones and on the last place is IOS

Yes, windows phone are not dead and it never will, these fool android and ios people pretend there OS is superior to us.
We just need our store filled by apps . We never left behind because of OS problem we are only underestimated by apps availability, once this gap is over Microsoft will be top of the smartphone industries holding a big share in market.

Then people will see the glory of windows phone.

 

[paulxxwall]

Yes, windows phone are not dead and it never will, these fool android and ios people pretend there OS is superior to us.
We just need our store filled by apps . We never left behind because of OS problem we are only underestimated by apps availability, once this gap is over Microsoft will be top of the smartphone industries holding a big share in market.

Then people will see the glory of windows phone.

It may happen but not in our life time

 

[N_LaRUE]

Yes, windows phone are not dead and it never will, these fool android and ios people pretend there OS is superior to us.
We just need our store filled by apps . We never left behind because of OS problem we are only underestimated by apps availability, once this gap is over Microsoft will be top of the smartphone industries holding a big share in market.

Then people will see the glory of windows phone.

That's rather prophetic and almost biblical sounding...

There's nothing wrong with being platform agnostic and liking technology from all points of view.

All OS have their positive and negative aspects.

 

[libra89]

That's rather prophetic and almost biblical sounding...

There's nothing wrong with being platform agnostic and liking technology from all points of view.

All OS have their positive and negative aspects.

This all the way! I switch between them all as I want. Trying a 950 right now just because. Didn't think that I would be trying one but that price drop helped! lol

Seriously though, there are things I love and hate about each OS. Every time I switch around, I am aware of these things. I have an iPhone, and my Lumias. I had Android phones until I sold them all. This doesn't mean that I'm done with Android, probably not. I have tried everything there (that I wanted to try) and I haven't liked the combo of any of them enough to keep. Waiting for what's next in the Android space.