Why WP is dead in the water

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

What kind of game is candy crush?

No clue.

 

[AndyM72]

Saying breaking the Hubs up into separate apps was easier (implying that it's the lazy option) is being unfair. Hubs are unmanageable. The dev principles that iOS brought in and Android ripped wholesale was going back to the principles of command line Unix (and it's true that under it all, they are both Unix-like OS). That is, small, simple apps, that do one thing, and do it well. Added to that is incremental deployment - features are added little and often. Once an app grows too big, you split it (Facebook and Foursquare).

Even if you take the hubs out of the OS and make them WP Store apps, you still couldn't keep up with the pace of change and development of these network services. Hubs are too big and have too many interdependencies to alter, test and deploy in a rapid cycle. Windows Phone is behind already, sticking to hubs would put it further behind.

The last part of "the Unix way" is inter app communication, making those small apps work together as a team. Android has this using files, because apps can look at most parts of the file system. WP and iOS are missing this because they use the far safer concept of siloed storage. iOS 8 is adding inter app comms using regulated APIs. WP 8.1 added "hook APIs" for social network apps to extend the People app/hub, but the next step has got to be more general inter app comms APIs. Then anyone could build a hub.

 

[three_thoughts]

Think back 6 or 7 years ago:

Nokia was selling billions of handsets and the company was the undisputed no1 and worth hundreds of billions of dollars - now it has been sold for $7bn (and mostly for it IP). Who predicted that?

How many people predicted that Blackberry, who owned the enterprise space so completely would basically have gone out of business within a few years? It was unthinkable!

When Android 1.0 was released, all I remember reading from "experts" was that it would never be able to break the dominance of Nokia, Blackberry and Apple - now look at it

How many people outside of south korea were even aware that Samsung made phones, let alone thought about buying one? Now they are everywhere with multiple products in every household.

Even 2 or 3 years ago:

how many people thought Apple's global market share would be fall to the 10's of %?

Be honest. How many people thought tablets were a stupid, pointless, over sized smartphone that couldn't make phone calls? (I did). It's incredible to think that the 1st iPad has been around only 4 years!

Going back a little further, how many people thought touchscreens on phones were pointless and would never be a success? (I did)

The point is, people are rubbish at predicting the future. Especially in a volatile and fast moving, fast changing industry like the tech industry.

The world in general is inherently unpredictable. How many "experts" saw the 2008 financial crash coming? You know, of all those tens of thousands of people who get paid a lot of money to predict that kind of thing (and are still being paid to predict that kind of thing even though they missed to biggest most important event for 80 years). How many? 1 or 2 and they were laughed at.

We have no idea if WP will succeed or fail. Just wait and see and enjoy the ride and take every prediction as nothing more than guesswork, because the chances are that something completely unthinkable will happen next week or next month or next year and the entire theory will be blown apart.

 

[techiez]

hey I have to call you out on this one .... they do have an app for wp. its just misinformed writers like the one in engadget who don't know anything about wp. so yeah engadget lost some credibility here

here is the app Climatology | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)

This one is not related to any MS services such as skype or onedrive that they want to expand, there was really no need to release it for android, they shd not have bothered with this, but they did. are they serious abt WP or they just see it as an experiment which will be shutdown in couple of years?

 

[Geddeeee]

This one is not related to any MS services such as skype or onedrive that they want to expand, there was really no need to release it for android, they shd not have bothered with this, but they did. are they serious abt WP or they just see it as an experiment which will be shutdown in couple of years?

Why will they shut it down?

MS are in it to make money. They ARE a business. It would be pretty stupid of them to ignore other markets because some of their WP users think they should concentrate only on WP not Android or iOS.
If they did that, their business would dry up pretty quickly. Gone are the days of this agressive competition.

I wish people would get this into their heads instead of continually moaning about WP.....

Grow up FFS... It's 2014 not 1992!!!!!

 

[FinancialP]

Don't know where you guys have been or witnessed. Compared to previous versions of Windows Phones/windows mobile; Windows Phone 8 is actually developing at a rapid rate.

So even I can give Microsoft some credit.

 

[muneshyne21]

Haha, looks like I caused a little ruckus on Reddit with my crying post. I feel like Emperor Palpatine. "Good...Goooood...let the hate flow through you!" In actuality, I'm trying to bring balance to this discussion...granted in a very sarcastic way.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Think back 6 or 7 years ago:

Nokia was selling billions of handsets and the company was the undisputed no1 and worth hundreds of billions of dollars - now it has been sold for $7bn (and mostly for it IP). Who predicted that?

How many people predicted that Blackberry, who owned the enterprise space so completely would basically have gone out of business within a few years? It was unthinkable!

When Android 1.0 was released, all I remember reading from "experts" was that it would never be able to break the dominance of Nokia, Blackberry and Apple - now look at it

How many people outside of south korea were even aware that Samsung made phones, let alone thought about buying one? Now they are everywhere with multiple products in every household.

Even 2 or 3 years ago:

how many people thought Apple's global market share would be fall to the 10's of %?

Be honest. How many people thought tablets were a stupid, pointless, over sized smartphone that couldn't make phone calls? (I did). It's incredible to think that the 1st iPad has been around only 4 years!

Going back a little further, how many people thought touchscreens on phones were pointless and would never be a success? (I did)

The point is, people are rubbish at predicting the future. Especially in a volatile and fast moving, fast changing industry like the tech industry.

Most are rubbish, but not all. But you have to look past the puff editorial pieces (and paid adverts masquerading as "news articles") to see it. That's the thing... if a person is a fan of a company or product they tend to gravitate towards stories that are positive. And those that aren't fans, aren't interested in stories about them.

For every incident you cited, there were preceding warning signs that some reported on. But those few got shouted out as "trolls" and "haters".

That's the nature of tech online news.

The world in general is inherently unpredictable. How many "experts" saw the 2008 financial crash coming? You know, of all those tens of thousands of people who get paid a lot of money to predict that kind of thing (and are still being paid to predict that kind of thing even though they missed to biggest most important event for 80 years). How many? 1 or 2 and they were laughed at.

There were many more who knew what was going to happen in 2008. I was one of them. I made decisions that were deemed "unwise" by the experts at the time, but made absolute sense to me. When the dust settled, I was, relatively speaking in pretty good shape whereas my contemporaries were facing financial ruin. I take no pleasure in that, but I AM thankful.

Others that knew what was coming (and there were many in the real estate, banking, and investing sectors) made decisions to minimize or eliminate their losses.

We have no idea if WP will succeed or fail. Just wait and see and enjoy the ride and take every prediction as nothing more than guesswork, because the chances are that something completely unthinkable will happen next week or next month or next year and the entire theory will be blown apart.

There are some of us who have a very good idea of what's going to happen to WP.

 

[gwinegarden]

You know, I find these WP forums fascinating.

Back in the day, when I used Blackberry, I spent a fair amount of time on the sister site. Even when things were at their darkest, most people were very upbeat, "we will come back", "we're still the best", "soon everyone will realise that BB is awesome", etc.

Fast forward to my going to WP. Over here it's "windows phone sucks!", "Microsoft sucks", "Nokia sucks", "WP doesn't have (insert your favourite, and possibly obscure app, here) and without it I cannot live another day" , "we're all doomed", "the sky is falling", ad nauseam.

I really wonder if whiners select WP because they feel it give them more opportunities to whine.

 

[Jas00555]

You know, I find these WP forums fascinating.

Back in the day, when I used Blackberry, I spent a fair amount of time on the sister site. Even when things were at their darkest, most people were very upbeat, "we will come back", "we're still the best", "soon everyone will realise that BB is awesome", etc.

Fast forward to my going to WP. Over here it's "windows phone sucks!", "Microsoft sucks", "Nokia sucks", "WP doesn't have (insert your favourite, and possibly obscure app, here) and without it I cannot live another day" , "we're all doomed", "the sky is falling", ad nauseam.

I really wonder if whiners select WP because they feel it give them more opportunities to whine.

On the flip side though, those same Blackberry fans who go "oh, we'll come back and rule" also get made fun of a lot online and are sometimes the butts of peoples jokes as being "blind fanboys".

I personally welcome justifiable criticism of Microsoft. It lets them know that they're lacking in some areas as opposed to "oh, everything is perfect" that I see on other forums.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

You know, I find these WP forums fascinating.

Back in the day, when I used Blackberry, I spent a fair amount of time on the sister site. Even when things were at their darkest, most people were very upbeat, "we will come back", "we're still the best", "soon everyone will realise that BB is awesome", etc.

Fast forward to my going to WP. Over here it's "windows phone sucks!", "Microsoft sucks", "Nokia sucks", "WP doesn't have (insert your favourite, and possibly obscure app, here) and without it I cannot live another day" , "we're all doomed", "the sky is falling", ad nauseam.

Ah, so you are of the opinion that there are no legitimate criticism of Microsoft, got it.

I really wonder if whiners select WP because they feel it give them more opportunities to whine.

Well at least you're acknowledging that isn't because it is a superior platform. :evil:

 

[muneshyne21]

Ah, so you are of the opinion that there are no legitimate criticism of Microsoft, got it.

I think he's just making the point that criticism was more supportive and upbeat in the BB forums vs the tone of the criticism here. I don't think anyone has said criticism is not allowed. Its just that the tone of the criticism on WP forums seems almost more comfortable in an iOS or Android forum vs here where the community should not just be critical but be more helpful and supportive of the products they are using.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I think he's just making the point that criticism was more supportive and upbeat in the BB forums vs the tone of the criticism here. I don't think anyone has said criticism is not allowed. Its just that the tone of the criticism on WP forums seems almost more comfortable in an iOS or Android forum vs here where the community should not just be critical but be more helpful and supportive of the products they are using.

GWINEGARDEN clearly thinks that those who criticize Microsoft are whiners. That is certainly not an opinion that invites criticism. So let's keep it real.

If there is a difference in the tone of the criticism it's because there is a greater disconnect of the reality of the situation in the Microsoft camp. There is no time to waste. Nothing good can come from a pollyanna approach to the serious deficiencies and shortcomings. There is an unspoken undertone that acknowledges that many here probably care more about the fate of Windows Phone than those in Microsoft who are paid to be responsible.

I'd venture to say that those who have expressed concern by sharing criticism probably care more about this thing than those who drink the kool-aid by parroting the marketing talking points that emanate from Redmond. Otherwise why would they bother? Unless you think they're nothing more than trolls or malcontents by nature.

 

[smoledman]

Why will they shut it down?

MS are in it to make money. They ARE a business. It would be pretty stupid of them to ignore other markets because some of their WP users think they should concentrate only on WP not Android or iOS.
If they did that, their business would dry up pretty quickly. Gone are the days of this agressive competition.

I wish people would get this into their heads instead of continually moaning about WP.....

Grow up FFS... It's 2014 not 1992!!!!!

MS stockholders keep asking why is money being thrown down the pit with no positive ROI in sight. Same thing with XBox. Is MS a charity?

 

[Black Lumia]

Sorry what? Microsoft should open what? Windows will NEVER be open, literally never.

That's what's killings Android.

 

[Phone Guy 4567]

Think back 6 or 7 years ago:

Nokia was selling billions of handsets and the company was the undisputed no1 and worth hundreds of billions of dollars - now it has been sold for $7bn (and mostly for it IP). Who predicted that?

How many people predicted that Blackberry, who owned the enterprise space so completely would basically have gone out of business within a few years? It was unthinkable!

When Android 1.0 was released, all I remember reading from "experts" was that it would never be able to break the dominance of Nokia, Blackberry and Apple - now look at it

How many people outside of south korea were even aware that Samsung made phones, let alone thought about buying one? Now they are everywhere with multiple products in every household.

Even 2 or 3 years ago:

how many people thought Apple's global market share would be fall to the 10's of %?

Be honest. How many people thought tablets were a stupid, pointless, over sized smartphone that couldn't make phone calls? (I did). It's incredible to think that the 1st iPad has been around only 4 years!

Going back a little further, how many people thought touchscreens on phones were pointless and would never be a success? (I did)

The point is, people are rubbish at predicting the future. Especially in a volatile and fast moving, fast changing industry like the tech industry.

The world in general is inherently unpredictable. How many "experts" saw the 2008 financial crash coming? You know, of all those tens of thousands of people who get paid a lot of money to predict that kind of thing (and are still being paid to predict that kind of thing even though they missed to biggest most important event for 80 years). How many? 1 or 2 and they were laughed at.

We have no idea if WP will succeed or fail. Just wait and see and enjoy the ride and take every prediction as nothing more than guesswork, because the chances are that something completely unthinkable will happen next week or next month or next year and the entire theory will be blown apart.

Your observations are spot on, but they also convince me that using an underdog platform is pointless and silly.

Since I don't know the future, & it is difficult to even guess what might happen, I should concentrate on the present day. Today Android & iOS are the most widely used mobile platforms with all the apps anyone could want, and no waiting to see when or if they will be released. In the future this may not be the case, so Android or iOS today and maybe something else in the future.

 

[RavenSword]

That's what's killings Android.

How is that killing android?

 

[RavenSword]

MS stockholders keep asking why is money being thrown down the pit with no positive ROI in sight. Same thing with XBox. Is MS a charity?

No, but it's also not always about the freaking ROI.

 

[jtpaajan]

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, I'll have to strongly disagree on this point:

4. No brag-able or show-off worthy features.

...like self-healing back panels. Heart rate monitors. Fingerprint scanners. Or even curved displays.

Yes, some of these are just gimmicky, but the sad reality is that we like gimmicks. In a world where 160 character conversations and 2 minute attention spans are fast becoming the norm, people like new, fancy things to show off, and then move on to the next big thing.
A lone Samsung phone (Ativ SE) has an IR blaster. And a few Lumias have PureView ? which is awesome and is not a gimmick, but cameras aren?t everything, and almost seem like a one trick pony at this stage.

I was recently temped to take the leap to Android, but chose the 1520 instead, as there are three absolutely unique and wonderful features on Nokia hardware that keep me on Windows Phone, despite the software shortcomings:

1) ClearBlack display technology. Especially in the 1520 this thing is AWESOME! There simply isn't another phone that is as usable in outdoors and bright sunlight as the CBD Nokias. This really is a dealbreaker thing for me, as I tend to use smartphones mainly for web browsing, out of which a lot happens in sunlight.

2) An always-on glance screen, showing the current time + notifications. This is something I have gotten used to and will NEVER give up!

3) High-amplitude audio capture (HAAC). With high-end Nokias you won't lose audio data even in challenging situations. Unlike, say incorrect white balance in the camera, this is something you cannot fix in software later on.

I really, really hope that Microsoft keeps on investing into their new mobile division to keep unique technology like this coming...

 

[Lalith Prabhudev]

I hope the Windows phone central sees this and tell it to Microsoft that "u gotta do a lot of work"