Windows 10 a disapointment, hybrids and tablets are dead

[fatclue_98]

Year over year, it's up .1%. How's that falling? In Europe it's 9.2 and climbing. Lay off the weed.

 

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

It's open to discussion, for now the initial argument is still correct.

The great solution that Microsoft found to their problems is to push the anachronistic UI they introduced 20 years ago in Windows 95.
Some people here want to close their eyes saying that there is still an option to activate the start menu, although an insignificant percentage of the users tweaks obscure options, so It's irrelevant. Microsoft won't push both UIs to retailers, for example, you won't see a Yoga Pro with Start Menu and beside that a Yoga Pro with Start Screen. Microsoft already chose the Windows 95 UI for their important products including the Surface Pro and other hybrids.
Other argument is that this is a preview and Microsoft will develop something totally different in 5 months, that's hilarious, obviously the big design decisions are already taken.

The impact of Windows 10 is that Metro is dead. Nobody buys Windows Phones, nobody will buy Windows tablets running the mobile OS if they compete with hybrids and the Surface that have a different UI.
If developers adopt WinRT for Windows 10 they will optimize for keyboard and mouse, not for an insignificant number of mobile users, the OS itself is optimized for keyboard and mouse even for hybrids.

I can't recommend Microsoft products anymore. the company ran out of ideas. Most people don't need the complexity of an UI introduced 20 years ago. Apple and Google are free to dominate the consumer market, and their products are slowly penetrating in the enterprise market.

 

[spaulagain]

I didn't say that. WP and tablets will use the MOBILE OS, but who's going to buy them? The market share in phones is falling, and RT tablets will compete with hybrids that use the Windows 95 UI, including the Surface.

So, the number of people using the Modern UI will be insignificant.

Again, you're completely failing to understand anything.

There will be no "Mobile OS." It's Windows 10, PERIOD.

And users will be exposed to the Modern environment, even on the desktop focused UI. It's simply won't be presented full screen like it has been in the past, because full screen apps on Desktops is not desired by many users. But the Modern "environment" and design language will be there all the time.

Creating an OS that's UI adapts to the individual use case is the best way to please users rather than force improper experiences down their throat. That doesn't mean that the design language and principles have to be completely different, they can be the same. Just tweaked to be more efficient based on how they are being interacted with.

You clearly can't get your head of the sand on this matter.

 

[squire777]

It's open to discussion, for now the initial argument is still correct.

...

lol

 

[rodan01]

Again, you're completely failing to understand anything.

There will be no "Mobile OS." It's Windows 10, PERIOD.

Or, you could say the operating systems for desktop, mobile and Xbox are different but they share a common core and app model. Beyond repeating marketing lines, you understand the concept, the user has a different UI and different capabilities, a different experience.

And users will be exposed to the Modern environment, even on the desktop focused UI. It's simply won't be presented full screen like it has been in the past, because full screen apps on Desktops is not desired by many users. But the Modern "environment" and design language will be there all the time.

Not really. The modern environment is not there. Full screen apps is a core part of Modern UI principles: Simplicity, clean design, content first, immersive chrome-less experience. Many of Modern UI elements are replaced with Windows 95 UI elements. For example the small three dots menu in the window title bar, so difficult to touch in an hybrid or a touch laptop, app switching at the left is replaced with a Windows 95 taskbar, the Windows start screen is replaced with start menu (I know you can use a setting to change it, but most people never mess with obscure settings).
The Modern apps looks awful and alien inside the Windows 95 desktop environment, so when you want a pleasant experience you left the Windows device and switch to a real consumer device.

Creating an OS that's UI adapts to the individual use case is the best way to please users rather than force improper experiences down their throat. That doesn't mean that the design language and principles have to be completely different, they can be the same. Just tweaked to be more efficient based on how they are being interacted with.

You clearly can't get your head of the sand on this matter.

Modern UI works well with mouse and keyboard, they could have improved that.
There are 1.5 billion people using Windows, but the actual usage time of Windows is falling because It's an overkill for most tasks. It's a more enjoyable and productive experience to use a simple device, with a simple UI, for simple tasks. Specially in the consumer market, what's the point of so much useless chrome obstructing the content? What's the point of moving and resizing windows?

Microsoft is pushing this Windows 95 UI principles to their core products like hybrids and Surface Pro, the products where they have an advantage over Apple and Google. So, the number of people buying devices with the REAL Modern UI experience which is better for most of the daily simple tasks, will be insignificant.

The final effect is that less and less people will use Windows for their most common computing tasks. Windows is just the boring OS you have to use at work to run legacy apps. That's called irrelevance, and in the long term money follows relevance.

 

[spaulagain]

Or, you could say the operating systems for desktop, mobile and Xbox are different but they share a common core and app model. Beyond repeating marketing lines, you understand the concept, the user has a different UI and different capabilities, a different experience.



Not really. The modern environment is not there. Full screen apps is a core part of Modern UI principles: Simplicity, clean design, content first, immersive chrome-less experience. Many of Modern UI elements are replaced with Windows 95 UI elements. For example the small three dots menu in the window title bar, so difficult to touch in an hybrid or a touch laptop, app switching at the left is replaced with a Windows 95 taskbar, the Windows start screen is replaced with start menu (I know you can use a setting to change it, but most people never mess with obscure settings).
The Modern apps looks awful and alien inside the Windows 95 desktop environment, so when you want a pleasant experience you left the Windows device and switch to a real consumer device.



Modern UI works well with mouse and keyboard, they could have improved that.
There are 1.5 billion people using Windows, but the actual usage time of Windows is falling because It's an overkill for most tasks. It's a more enjoyable and productive experience to use a simple device, with a simple UI, for simple tasks. Specially in the consumer market, what's the point of so much useless chrome obstructing the content? What's the point of moving and resizing windows?

Microsoft is pushing this Windows 95 UI principles to their core products like hybrids and Surface Pro, the products where they have an advantage over Apple and Google. So, the number of people buying devices with the REAL Modern UI experience which is better for most of the daily simple tasks, will be insignificant.

The final effect is that less and less people will use Windows for their most common computing tasks. Windows is just the boring OS you have to use at work to run legacy apps. That's called irrelevance, and in the long run money follows relevance.

But that's completely false. Windows 8, WP8, and Xbox already share the same core. And have similar app structures for modern apps.

Windows 10 is a step beyond that. It is literally the same OS. Just a matter of a UI adjustments. It's like a Responsive website, it's the same website, but the code changes how it's displayed based on form factor.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, so just stop talking.

 

[Squachy]

1) it's a tech preview, aka beta/unfinished
2) it's business focused at the moment. you can't have a touch interface on a non touch device(is desktops) it's intuitive. That's why win8 is so divisive. Businesses don't use touch.... They use desktops, and most if not all businesses refuse to upgrade to win8. They should have gone to win7 instead of now panicking with all the older windows versions getting phased out in favor of 8 and above.
3). Their one windows philosophy means the experience across everything will be consistent. Touch is fine with tablets and phones and even Xbox but they need to bridge the desktop to be more than just win7 with a metro theme. So they're bringing as much of the functionality as they can to desktop without killing the desktop.

 

[Brandon Tobias]

I am going to message an admin
1) you got your answer from me and every one else
2) I find you very annoying and a bit ignorant
3) im blunt and speak my mind so i can use more creative adjectives
4) no one wants to hear your rant its not constructive, or informative or educational ....
5) MS does no build and OS around you mr rodan01 if you want a version of windows that fulfills your vision build it yourself

Time for this thread to end we can take our constructive questions , answers and discussions to another thread ....

 

[rodan01]

1) it's a tech preview, aka beta/unfinished
2) it's business focused at the moment. you can't have a touch interface on a non touch device(is desktops) it's intuitive. That's why win8 is so divisive. Businesses don't use touch.... They use desktops, and most if not all businesses refuse to upgrade to win8. They should have gone to win7 instead of now panicking with all the older windows versions getting phased out in favor of 8 and above.
3). Their one windows philosophy means the experience across everything will be consistent. Touch is fine with tablets and phones and even Xbox but they need to bridge the desktop to be more than just win7 with a metro theme. So they're bringing as much of the functionality as they can to desktop without killing the desktop.

1)The big design decisions and the objectives of the product can't be changed in a few months.

2)Obviously they're going to push the same UI for in the enterprise and consumer markets for laptops and hybrids. You won't see a Yoga Pro (an hybrid device) with start menu and a beside that the same Yoga Pro with start screen in a retail store.

The effect of these decisions:
Laptops with touchscreen don't make sense anymore because the UI is not touch friendly.
Hybrids are mostly attractive for the enterprise and people that needs legacy Windows software, that's a niche. A 13-inch iPad pro with accessories is better for consumers that don't need the complexity of Windows and occasionally need to do some tasks with mouse and keyboard.
Nobody buys Windows phones and nobody will buy pure Windows tablets, Android and iOS have obvious advantages.
So, who's using Windows and why?

3)The "philosophy" of Windows 8 was to push the platform to consumers through laptops with touchscreens and hybrids.
In Windows 10 they will use the Windows 95 UI for laptops with touchscreens and hybrids, and nobody buys Windows phones and tablets. The net effects is: Windows becomes a niche product, the platform is dead in the consumer market. In the long term will be also dead in the enterprise market.

 

[spaulagain]

1)The big design decisions and the objectives of the product can't be changed in a few months.

2)Obviously they're going to push the same UI for in the enterprise and consumer markets for laptops and hybrids. You won't see a Yoga Pro (an hybrid device) with start menu and a beside that the same Yoga Pro with start screen in a retail store.

The effect of these decisions:
Laptops with touchscreen don't make sense anymore because the UI is not touch friendly.
Hybrids are mostly attractive for the enterprise and people that needs legacy Windows software, that's a niche. A 13-inch iPad pro with accessories is better for consumers that don't need the complexity of Windows and occasionally need to do some tasks with mouse and keyboard.
Nobody buys Windows phones and nobody will buy pure Windows tablets, Android and iOS have obvious advantages.
So, who's using Windows and why?

3)The "philosophy" of Windows 8 was to push the platform to consumers through laptops with touchscreens and hybrids.
In Windows 10 they will use the Windows 95 UI for laptops with touchscreens and hybrids, and nobody buys Windows phones and tablets. The net effects is: Windows becomes a niche product, the platform is dead in the consumer market. In the long term will be also dead in the enterprise market.

Again, complete bullocks. You need to just stop talking.

I have a laptop with Touchscreen, and even in "Desktop" mode I use touch for various tasks. It's not keyboard/mouse OR touch.

When the mouse was invented, people didn't stop using keyboard. They just used mice for things that made more sense using a mouse for. But the keyboard was still being used, and still is to this day. The same goes for touch.

If MS continued down the path you seem so married to, people would stop buying Microsoft products altogether. If people are frustrated, and hate using Windows on a desktop (Windows 8) why would they even bother buying a Windows product like a tablet or phone? Do you really think taking Sinofsky's approach that burned them in the first place is going to improve their market position? Because that's basically what you are saying. Is that the only way to get people to use touch is to shove it in their face and force them to use it even when it doesn't make sense for their use case.

You're borderline delusional if you really think that's the way they should continue.

 

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

OMG, just leave this troll in peace.

 

[Brandon Tobias]

1)The big design decisions and the objectives of the product can't be changed in a few months.

2)Obviously they're going to push the same UI for in the enterprise and consumer markets for laptops and hybrids. You won't see a Yoga Pro (an hybrid device) with start menu and a beside that the same Yoga Pro with start screen in a retail store.

So, laptops with touchscreen don't make sense anymore because the UI is not touch friendly.
Hybrids are mostly attractive for the enterprise and people that needs legacy Windows software, that's a niche. A 13-inch iPad pro with accessories is better for consumers that don't need the complexity of Windows and occasionally need to do some tasks with mouse and keyboard.
Nobody buys Windows phones and nobody will buy pure Windows tablets, Android and iOS has obvious advantages.
So, who's using windows and why?

3)The "philosophy" of Windows 8 was to push the platform to consumers through laptops with touchscreens and hybrids.
In Windows 10 they will use the Windows 95 UI for laptops with touchscreens and hybrids, and nobody buys Windows phones and tablets. The net effects is: Windows becomes a niche product, the platform is dead in the consumer market. In the long term will be also dead in the enterprise market.

Do you understand English and what every one else is trying to tell you.

let me give you a run down on how MS does things ...

1) Different people / groups work on different parts of the OS separately i.e. people working on the new Explorer UI, icons and Modern UI work on that part with a different build of windows which can be newer or older.
2) builds can be compiled daily to weekly to monthly ...
3) its highly likely that there are far newer builds internally in MS with improved touch, Store, New UI elements (notification center and cortana) and modern 2.0 UI /App model.
4) designing an OS that throws touch out the window when most laptops have touch makes absolutely no sense why would MS have adobe fix there app for HDPI screens and make the Adobe creative suite touch friendly if Windows is going to abandon touch ??? it makes no sense.
5) You keep comparing Windows to IOS and Android they are different categories of OS.. you cannot edit video or photos professionally on a tablet no is it ideal to do documents, power points, coding/web development on a tablet or mobile phone OS.

Android and IOS are more for leisure and entertainment while still allowing some level of productivity its not the same as OS X or Windows.

You just sound like a kid that needs to rant ... your arguments as to why windows should change to your vision are impuissant at best and unsubstantial.

MS has thousands of workers i don't know how much is on the windows team but the Windows phone team is now merged with windows so more hands to code and develop as well as spot bugs so in a view months alot can change. i would know i can code apps alot can change in a few days, weeks and months if you have ever built and app or game or done general coding.

As said before you got all your answers and this thread (you) are getting out of hand .... i really hope the moderator i notified rectifies this thread.

 

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

You're definitely spending your time on unconstructive and meaningless arguing.

Edit 1. BTW I've read that today some articles, which state that the trolls behaves like narcissists, psychopaths and sadists.
http://www.cnet.com/news/web-trolls-are-narcissists-sadists-and-psychopaths-says-study/

 

[Brandon Tobias]

You're definitely spending your time on unconstructive and meaningless arguing.

Edit 1. BTW I've read that today some articles, which that the trolls behaves like narcissists, psychopaths and sadists.
Online trolls are narcissists, sadists and psychopaths, says study - CNET

lol wow gud timing idk why he keep repeating himself
i don't think he is a troll he is not making any one feel bad he is just making himself appear in an bad way.
overly passionate but lacking a few bits of key knowledge ...?? maybe

i reported the thread hope it gets fixed .... or he gets the boot because he comments in other threads with the same behaviour at least the windows 10 ones ...

 

[rodan01]

lol wow gud timing idk why he keep repeating himself
i don't think he is a troll he is not making any one feel bad he is just making himself appear in an bad way.
overly passionate but lacking a few bits of key knowledge ...?? maybe

i reported the thread hope it gets fixed .... or he gets the boot because he comments in other threads with the same behaviour at least the windows 10 ones ...

I agree, I was expecting new arguments, but I don't see anything new in the last pages. To answer your post I would need to repeat the same things.

The conclusion is the same. Windows 10 is capitulation. I don't recommend buying Windows devices or developing for this platform. Microsoft is done in the consumer market.



Sent from my GeForce7050M-M using Tapatalk

 

[Silviu Bogusevschi]

I agree, I was expecting new arguments, but I don't see anything new in the last pages. To answer your post I would need to repeat the same things.

The conclusion is the same. Windows 10 is capitulation. I don't recommend buying Windows devices or developing for this platform. Microsoft is done in the consumer market.



Sent from my GeForce7050M-M using Tapatalk

Check few pages ago, you didn't reply me when I asked you for some arguments. Stahp this bs pls.

Edit 1. http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10/314187-8.htm#post2801901 Like this one.

 

[spaulagain]

I agree, I was expecting new arguments, but I don't see anything new in the last pages. To answer your post I would need to repeat the same things.

The conclusion is the same. Windows 10 is capitulation. I don't recommend buying Windows devices or developing for this platform. Microsoft is done in the consumer market.



Sent from my GeForce7050M-M using Tapatalk

The fact that you are making that judgement from the Windows 10 Technical Preview is flat out preposterous.

So what you're saying is Windows on a phone or tablet is completely dead because MS enhanced the desktop experience for DESKTOP USERS. Do you realize how ridiculous that even sounds?

At this point, it's self evident that you are delusional.

 

[ronaldme]

1)The big design decisions and the objectives of the product can't be changed in a few months.

Of course not...

Microsoft changing Xbox One policies - GameSpot

LOL....

 

[spaulagain]

Of course not...

Microsoft changing Xbox One policies - GameSpot

LOL....

Lol, PERFECT

 

[neo158]

Hmm, evidently OP hasn't discovered the ability to switch back to the Start Screen in the preview.

Yes OP, it's a preview i.e. not even beta. This means that it's subject to change before release.