Windows 10 a disapointment, hybrids and tablets are dead

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Karthik Naik

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the 13-inch ipad wont be running osx or something,itll run ios
do you know how long itll take for merging platforms,ask microsoft they did it before google and apple
even if apple releases something like an osx tablet itll be a macbook air with a higher price tag and touch screen
if you are calling microsoft a coward,remember that they ditched WP7 and its users for a better OS-WP8
Nokia ditched its ready platform-Meego and mature,saturated symbian for Windows Phone 7
microsoft came up with the One OS for all dream and made windows 8 which was a radical change from windows 7 and even worse for windows xp users(not saying windows 8 was bad,i liked it and dont understand all this hate)

if steve jobs was such a non-coward why would he put such strict restrictions for app submissions like "no compiliers" etc
why does the iphone lack something as simple as bluetooth file transfer,text message delivery note etc

FYI its good MS has kept a "balance" attitude between the walled gardens of apple and the open ones of google,otherwise we would have to complain of lack of basic functions like bluetooth or scare away devs because of piracy and malware like on android

Give credit where due!! MS has done a phenomenal job and is now officially ahead in terms of the OS core etc(One OS for all)!!
google cannot achieve this because chrome os hasnt got a reason to choose it over Linux distros like Ubuntu
apple cannot achieve this because of extreme pricing and OSX cannot be installed on regular PCs(atleast without bugs,unneccesary effort,questionable legality etc)
plus this is a windows 10 Technical Preview,not even a consumer one
 

Brandon Tobias

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Since i was puzzled by the negative comments i went to install it on a virtual machine (here is procedure and links for those who want to do it How to install the Windows 10 Technical Preview in VMWare Player).
Due to time constraints i won't be long but my opinion is as follows:
A) The whole experience is "simplified".
B) Things are where you expect to find them out of the box, like in the old W7
C) The Start menu works for me. It has all the traditional items AND the chance to add tiles for the most used apps or for weather etc. Personally i'd add an option to make the tiled section STICKY and more customizable (alphabetic order for apps, grouping etc.). I'd call it "Pseudo-ModernUI mode". This will allow users who are unhappy about the traditional environment to still operate within the modern UI in a way. Anyway on hybrids and tablets that environment will be present. I don't like the fact that i can't add my own links in the start menu (they are now tiles though and it works fine for me).
D) It's fast also on a VM. Very fast, very efficient and, to date, flawless. Everything works including Microsoft Updates (already got two).
E) You can customize the start menu color and i find it very nice.
F) No more double interface, double menus, double anything. You work in ONE interface with a bit of "Modern taste". No charms as promised. Touch interface is fast, very fast and very accurate. In short, it could be a beta too and people could use it (although many would be complaining for the missing options i don't see after just a few hours of usage)
Below some pics for those who are curious:
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EDIT:
Digging more into articles i found out the Metro UI is there in full (Article here:Here is how to get back the Modern Start Screen in Windows 10 Technical Preview | Windows Phone Central)
Here it is. You just need to change the options in the navigation menu.
View attachment 83350
View attachment 83351

Honestly, can't imagine anything more flexible than this. And this is just a preview.

I have suggested Microsoft some changes/optimizations through the dedicated channel. I'd recommend anyone willing to rant to also go rant there so there are higher chances that rants turn into something constructive out of the box.
I have also suggested to allow for some tiles/widgets (News apps, weather, calendar, and a few others) to be addable as widgets on the desktop. This is because i may like or need to have multiple timezones showing in a comfortable place (I use a third party app at the moment and i am not fond of third party apps).

What do you think? I am genuinely curious!

i agree with you MS just need some changes
- namely i want flat icons beautiful flat icons OS wide
-Start menu could do with a bit of a design like how the start screen had wallpapers the flat color is kinda boring (i say start themes FTW)
- the shadows around active and in active windows are ugly to me its too much and should be a blend of subtle and pronounced for active windows and subtle for inactive windows.
- Explorer is a change for me i'm still adjusting to the changes but for now all i want is a flatter more modern look with new icons so modern apps and regular x86 apps look like the belong together on the same screen.
- Some people like modern apps Full screen and i think MS should make an option that makes modern apps either windowed or full screen.
- I agree with desktop widgets but i don't like them but having the option for it would be cool.

cant wait to see the rest of features :)
 

Brandon Tobias

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It's not early, It's quite late, in a few months they have to be feature complete.
Power users are a small niche, and even for them is unusual to work with many apps on the screen at the same time. Although, a better snap feature in Windows 8 could accommodate more apps in more complex layouts for the corner cases.
Immersive apps with a good snap functionality is a more productive environment for most of the users. Managing resizable and movable windows doesn't add much value, but it adds a lot of friction.
Rumors are that Apple is working in a 13-inch iPad, maybe they've perfected some kind of "Modern UI".



Yes, Windows 10 is Windows 7 with tiles, and It's fast.
The double interface was the problem with Windows 8. I though they would introduce a way to run win32 apps in the Modern environment, but they did the opposite wrapping the beautiful experience of Modern apps in ugly windows. They're filling the screen of useless chrome and adding friction and complexity.

Windows 10 loses many of the good features of Windows 8 and introduce new usability problems. For example, the Mail store app have a bar at the bottom with three dots to improve discoverability. That bar is easy to hit in Windows 8 with mouse and touch because you just go to bottom of the screen, but in Windows 10 the taskbar is at the bottom, and the bar with the three dots is really hard to hit with the mouse and almost impossible with touch. Windows 7 is not touch friendly, Windows-7-with-tiles neither.

Windows 10 doesn't add much value to the OS landscape. Microsoft looks like a scared company running backwards, trying to hide themselves in the big and falling desktop market share. They're destroying most of the work they did with Windows 8 to bring back Windows 7. Irrelevance is not a random event, It's caused by wrong decisions and cowardice. If Steve Jobs had been an coward, we would still be using feature phones.

Ok MS employee its late by your clock ....
what ever you say you say or think .....
What i have to say is im glad you are not running the windows team because idk what would have happened .....
but its your opinion and i respect that i have no energy to exert on explaining again
 
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Managing resizable and movable windows doesn't add much value, but it adds a lot of friction.
I work on multiple windows (localization software one or more than one, dictionaries, other translating apps and websites + post it notes on desktops and a variety of widgets which i place at will around the desktop). Modern UI for me is utterly useless with my needs. I suspect others have similar issues with Modern UI. The new W10 supports multiple desktops too. This means i can have one desktop cluttered with all what i need for work and then another desktop for spare time or entertainment. Modern UI doesn't allow for the same flexibility.

Put simply, it's a gorgeous interface for tablets and even for a mobile if they do it. WP should have it out of the box, including all those interface customizations. It would considerably improve the WP platform. But on a desktop it's limited, very limited.
 
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fatclue_98

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anything which will run windows xp will run windows 7 even better and even more with windows 8 provided it has a gpu for windows 8 effects etc
from my experience with a pentium 4,xp was dead slow with 1gb ram,the minute i put 7,it literally flies,14seconds to boot!! even faster than my other systems with better specs
i cant install 8 on it again because my nvidia 8600gt died out on me,but 7 still runs fine

A lot of XP machines only had 256 or 512 RAM. Video was usually 64MB of shared memory too. Without updating, they can't run 7.
 

Niavlys77

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OP - you're making *FAR* too many assumptions. You don't know exactly what the OS will be like on all the different devices for the official release, and you seem to forget that there's still almost a year before it gets officially released. The Technical Preview is here precisely for feedback.

We hardly know anything about Windows Phone 10 at this point - yet you seem to assume that those smaller tablets will have a slight variation of the Windows Phone 8 UI.

Stop assuming, give your feedback for the Technical Preview, and wait and see what actually comes out of it. This thread is a waste of everyone's time (and is pretty well click-bait with that title).
 

rodan01

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I work on multiple windows (localization software one or more than one, dictionaries, other translating apps and websites + post it notes on desktops and a variety of widgets which i place at will around the desktop. Modern UI for me is utterly useless with my needs. I suspect others have similar issues with Modern UI. The new W10 supports multiple desktops too. This means i can have one desktop cluttered with all what i need for work and then another desktop for spare time or entertainment. Modern UI doesn't allow for the same flexibility.

Put simply, it's a gorgeous interface for tablets and even for a mobile if they do it. WP should have it out of the box, including all those interface customizations. It would considerably improve the WP platform. But on a desktop it's limited, very limited.

Multiple desktop has been available in Windows before through power packs, Microsoft never added the feature to the mainstream product because It's too niche, It doesn't add much value. I guess they added it now to have something to show.

Most people use one or two apps on the screen at the same time, humans can't handle too much information. It's easier to have the less important apps in the background and switch to them when they're needed. Having a whole mess in a screen with restricted space is generally an inferior design.

The OS should be optimized for the most common scenario. Multiple apps in the same screen is a corner case that should be provided through a better snap functionality.

Microsoft didn't push Windows 8 to desktop users without a reason, without studying the usage patterns, there are a lot of good ideas in the OS. A improved Modern UI could be a great OS for mouse and keyboard.
 

rodan01

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I read that.
One of the many the problems of the Windows platform is the low quality of the analyst and reporters. The best guys are following Apple and Google. Microsoft has Thurrott, Foley, Warren and others that aren't that good, beyond copying press releases.
For example, Thurrott always criticize what he call "the frankestain OS", but did he ever analyzed the Modern interface in his own merit, the ideas behind Windows 8 as an OS for laptop and desktop PCs?

Wrapping the Modern apps in windows won't solve the usability problems in the store apps for desktop users. It just perpetuate the old paradigms of windowed apps that Windows 8 attempted to change.
 

Karthik Naik

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A lot of XP machines only had 256 or 512 RAM. Video was usually 64MB of shared memory too. Without updating, they can't run 7.

totally forgot about ram,i have a pentium 4 with 1gb ram and 96mb shared video memory which handles windows 7 easily
i think the lowest for windows 7 without trouble is 512mb,video memory shouldnt be an issue imho because you can enable windows classic and use
 
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My grandmother's old PC with Pentium 4 3.2 Ghz HT and 512mb ram runs Windows 8.1 Pro 32 bit flawlessly. Windows 7 also worked fine but the aero graphics made it stutter a little. Windows 8.1 is absolutely smooth. It only has a Intel GMA945G 128mb internal graphics. :)
 
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salmanahmad

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My grandmother's old PC with Pentium 4 3.2 Ghz HT and 512mb team runs Windows 8.1 Pro 32 bit flawlessly. Windows 7 also worked fine but the aero graphics made it stutter a little. Windows 8.1 is absolutely smooth. It only has a Intel GMA945G 128mb internal graphics. :)

I have a Core i5 337U, with 1GB of video memory of a Nvidia 740M, 4GB of RAM and apart from boot up time, Windows 8 is significantly slower than Windows 7.

I am waiting for Windows 10 to improve performance.

But it's a miracle that Windows 8 runs smoothly on your grandmother's PC, because it works rather terribly on my much more powerful laptop.
 

DoctorSaline

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I read that.
One of the many the problems of the Windows platform is the low quality of the analyst and reporters. The best guys are following Apple and Google. Microsoft has Thurrott, Foley, Warren and others that aren't that good, beyond copying press releases.
For example, Thurrott always criticize what he call "the frankestain OS", but did he ever analyzed the Modern interface in his own merit, the ideas behind Windows 8 as an OS for laptop and desktop PCs?

Wrapping the Modern apps in windows won't solve the usability problems in the store apps for desktop users. It just perpetuate the old paradigms of windowed apps that Windows 8 attempted to change.

Every review I've read of Windows8/8.1 slammed it for identity crisis. That includes guys that follows Apple and Google as well. Critics didn't like it. Masses didn't like it. It was admirable that Microsoft brought a new innovative design but this is also a fact that it didn't garner masses attraction which accounted for lack of developer support. You don't change something drastically. Change is always gradual. There is a reason Apple changed iPhone sizes gradually from 3.7" to 4" to 4.7" and 5.5". You may have been innovative enough to have realized the potential of modern UI but most people haven't. So now, Microsoft are taking the gradual route. I'm sure once we have enough users and developers support, it will be easy for MS to shift to Modern UI. Secondly, winRT framework on which Modern UI is based is still in its early years. It will take time to mature. With user feedback, I'm sure MS will be able to improve Modern UI with consequent updates.

The reason for sharing that article was to remind you that this was the Desktop focused Technical Preview and Modern UI focused Consumer Preview will be released later.

Why don't you use the feedback app to provide feedback to MS regarding Modern UI for hybrids.
 

John Q6 Pack

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Not everyone cares, about tablets & such. When we do it's because we "have" too..
Let me explain.
Some of us in the computer = tool space really do in fact need a good working desktop.
See, things like CAD, CAM, CAE, etc (google as required....)
REQUIRE a "real desktop".
You can't freeking "touch operate" these programs. Someday possibly, not anytime soon.

I know what you are thinking, WTF does any of this C?? crap matter anyway...
Well if you want a new device of ANY TYPE, someone has to make the bloody thing...
Welcome to needing a desktop...

This may be a selfish statement given my profession, but until such time as someone can code Creo, UGNX, or possibly Catia as an app (LMAO...) there is no universe were the non-desktop can exist WITHOUT the desktop stuff. (ID guys not withstanding)

I say that because after reading everything in this thread, I am left thinking some folks feel the PC isn't really "required".
Well, not everyone gets by with "office apps" to get the job done. This "modern UI" is woefully unacceptable in theory or practice for the space I live in. Folks like myself, make the stuff. You want new stuff, nobody coding for the "app store" is going to provide a solution. We need desktops (with reall aXX kicking power) and we need a UI that is not some phone based nonsense....

PC's (with desktops) make things today... ALL THINGS....

Sorry for the long post, trying to provide some perspective.
 

fatclue_98

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Not everyone cares, about tablets & such. When we do it's because we "have" too..
Let me explain.
Some of us in the computer = tool space really do in fact need a good working desktop.
See, things like CAD, CAM, CAE, etc (google as required....)
REQUIRE a "real desktop".
You can't freeking "touch operate" these programs. Someday possibly, not anytime soon.

I know what you are thinking, WTF does any of this C?? crap matter anyway...
Well if you want a new device of ANY TYPE, someone has to make the bloody thing...
Welcome to needing a desktop...

This may be a selfish statement given my profession, but until such time as someone can code Creo, UGNX, or possibly Catia as an app (LMAO...) there is no universe were the non-desktop can exist WITHOUT the desktop stuff. (ID guys not withstanding)

I say that because after reading everything in this thread, I am left thinking some folks feel the PC isn't really "required".
Well, not everyone gets by with "office apps" to get the job done. This "modern UI" is woefully unacceptable in theory or practice for the space I live in. Folks like myself, make the stuff. You want new stuff, nobody coding for the "app store" is going to provide a solution. We need desktops (with reall aXX kicking power) and we need a UI that is not some phone based nonsense....

PC's (with desktops) make things today... ALL THINGS....

Sorry for the long post, trying to provide some perspective.

You won't be getting any argument from me. I've been b******g about the severe lack of decent Autodesk apps for WP for sometime. Yes, iOS and Android have mobile versions but they are barely more than viewers. I've had no luck editing X-Refs on either. I can't carry a laptop, or much less a desktop, out on my jobsites so I'm finding a happy medium with an Asus Note 8 tablet with Wacom support and full 8.1. It's not the best solution but it helps in a pinch. Without the precise nature of Wacom styli, it's impossible to do ANY editing so unless 10 brings pen support to mobile, fuhgedaboutit.
 

Cleavitt76

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Not everyone cares, about tablets & such. When we do it's because we "have" too..
Let me explain.
Some of us in the computer = tool space really do in fact need a good working desktop.
See, things like CAD, CAM, CAE, etc (google as required....)
REQUIRE a "real desktop".
You can't freeking "touch operate" these programs. Someday possibly, not anytime soon.

I know what you are thinking, WTF does any of this C?? crap matter anyway...
Well if you want a new device of ANY TYPE, someone has to make the bloody thing...
Welcome to needing a desktop...

This may be a selfish statement given my profession, but until such time as someone can code Creo, UGNX, or possibly Catia as an app (LMAO...) there is no universe were the non-desktop can exist WITHOUT the desktop stuff. (ID guys not withstanding)

I say that because after reading everything in this thread, I am left thinking some folks feel the PC isn't really "required".
Well, not everyone gets by with "office apps" to get the job done. This "modern UI" is woefully unacceptable in theory or practice for the space I live in. Folks like myself, make the stuff. You want new stuff, nobody coding for the "app store" is going to provide a solution. We need desktops (with reall aXX kicking power) and we need a UI that is not some phone based nonsense....

PC's (with desktops) make things today... ALL THINGS....

Sorry for the long post, trying to provide some perspective.

I completely agree with your rant. I like the Modern app capabilities in Windows 8.x, but certainly not as a replacement for desktop programs. Modern apps work well to compliment the desktop programs. Each type of program is intended for a different workflow. One app type is intended for simple touch apps which are limited by the low precision of human finger tips on a small screen. The other is intended for complex and data intensive programs that require the precision of a mouse/keyboard. Anyone that thinks that Modern UI (as it is currently) is going to replace desktop optimized programs is missing the point and has probably never done any real work on a computer.
 

rodan01

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In 2015 Microsoft will add new APIs to the Modern UI for the development of apps optimized for keyboard and mouse. So, in future most of the apps, including productivity apps, will be Modern apps distributed through the store.

One thing is the shell, other thing are the apps. Apps optimized for touch can run in the awful windowed shell of Windows 7. Apps optimized for keyboard and mouse could run in the beautiful Modern UI shell without any chrome.
 

smoledman

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I read that.
One of the many the problems of the Windows platform is the low quality of the analyst and reporters. The best guys are following Apple and Google. Microsoft has Thurrott, Foley, Warren and others that aren't that good, beyond copying press releases.
For example, Thurrott always criticize what he call "the frankestain OS", but did he ever analyzed the Modern interface in his own merit, the ideas behind Windows 8 as an OS for laptop and desktop PCs?

Wrapping the Modern apps in windows won't solve the usability problems in the store apps for desktop users. It just perpetuate the old paradigms of windowed apps that Windows 8 attempted to change.

How does forcing full-screen tablet app experience help desktop users? Why this dogmatic attempt to force the tablet paradigm on a friggen desktop PC?
 

WanderingTraveler

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Calm down, people! The new paradigm is completely optional as of the moment, and you can switch between the two as you wish.
This is exactly what Windows 8 had to do.

Continuum is less than perfect, though. That'll have to act as a bridge between the two modes.
 
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