Windows 10 Mobile: The Beginning or the End?

[TechFreak1]

Can people stop calling it Windows 10 Mobile... reading the article, will update this post.

 

[sinime]

With some apps the maintenance required may be as simple as just re-porting the new updates IOS app. I haven't done a port or seen it in action, but it's assume many apps will port directly with little to no work... Where you probably run into issues is when API calls are required that don't have a corresponding Windows API... Like a widget on Android... There is probably no direct way of magically porting a widget to a live tile... So the dev would have to remove the widget parts and code the live tile or leave it as a static tile... They will probably also have to redo the tile icons for the port.

 

[Jazmac]

Yet another death march post.

 

[Cleavitt76]

The reason why Windows desktop platform is so successful is due to the fact that Microsoft CREATED and lead a revolution by creating products such as WINDOWS and Office. It worked to make their products work from the little man to the big corporations. Not by simply copying what their competitors are doing and taking their apps lol. Microsoft was a LEADER and that is why they had the success they had and still rely on today.

You might not be old enough or close enough to the industry to know the actual history, but your examples are not accurate.

WordPerfect and Lotus Notes were the de facto standard long before MS Office. And Windows had competition from Apple and giants at the time like IBM's OS2. MS beat their competitors in a few ways...

1) MS absolutely did "copy" their competitors leading products. There is nothing wrong with that. It's called competition and all of these companies do it.
2) MS made an OS that could be used by normal people to get things done with computers. However, Apple and IBM were offering similar products to consumers.
3) MS provided third party developers with the best tools and APIs to make software development for Windows and Office easy.

Since MS was actually the new guy in office software and Windows had similar competition, it's the ease of development for their platform and availability of third party software that ended up being the deciding factor for the success of Windows and Office. MS has always excelled at providing the best development tools. These tools are just another way to assist developers in making their software available on the MS ecosystem.

 

[DoctorSaline]

I think this is the beginning as even Microsoft understands(and has publically acknowledged various times) that mobility is the future. Not having your own platform in mobile space means your services will be treated as second hand citizens on say for example Google's android, where google will push its own alternatives like google docs, maps, hangouts etc. So you see having a mobile platform is important for the survival of Microsoft's core services that's why they went to such lengths to unify the core of their operating systems. And we all know app gap is only there because of some big name and or most used services and local apps(banking, airline etc. for US market) but even then some are coming onboard as the time goes by. Previously they could either target 3% of WP share or 15% of PC share that too through investing resources on Silverlight and RT separately. Now they can target all device types by only investing in Universal Windows Platform and that too has been made easy for them by bridging tools which will support Apple's native language Objective C and Android's C++/Java. (Microsoft's native language is C#.) Also, incorporating Win32 and Web apps into Universal Windows Platform shows that this is the platform to go from now on even for legacy computing development so yes, developers will adopt Universal Windows Platform. Now I don't know when will that happen or how soon but it will happen. Now the question remains if the services and apps/games that are important and/or most used in mobile space will come soon enough to help the mobile segment grow? I would like to hope so but I'm not that optimistic because to me the issue is more political than lack of resources. All these companies probably detest Microsoft for its decades of monopoly and now are having a payback. Microsoft needs to do what it does best. And that is: signing partnerships with more and more hardware OEMs. The best use case of this android bridge will be with OEMs. Samsung and other OEMs will now be easily able to port their proprietary bloatware that was written for android to windows phones now. And may very well be eager to launch Windows based handsets because they too don't want to see Google's monopoly(times change) in their heart and therein may lie Microsoft's biggest chance of survival in mobile space.

 

[c0wb0ycliche]

This sort of shows, at a high level, how easy the porting is.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DJTbkh-OsXM

 

[CSJr1]

I think I was the biggest detractor when I first starting hearing the rumors. I thought it would be just like blackberry; sideloading and pure emulation.

It is not. The final code is compile as a Windows app in the Windows store. No side loading or alternate stores needed. There may be some subsystem going on, but why would a user care about this if they get Windows 10 services?

This opens the door into the Windows ecosystem and I as a Windows user dont see anything wrong with that.

 

[realwarder]

I hope they refine the app conversion process before release! Both demos failed. The converted iOS app ran fine, but it produced the wrong answer for the simple math problem. The converted Android app wouldn't find its location, and then it totally crashed on the backup device.

I think the iOS wrong answer was someone having a joke. There is no way a tool would convert so much of an app correctly - graphics, 10's of thousands of lines of code to make everything work and then fail on something as simple one tiny bit of math. The simplest part of the conversion. Very unlikely. Someone was having a little laugh at that point.

 

[realwarder]

Something to note from this write up is the author (OP) says publishing to the Kindle fire store is one click. For pure AOSP apps, sure, but most apps like SnapChat use Google Services which both Amazon and Microsoft do not support. Instead they both have their own classes which you use to provide an alternative for things like messaging, maps and in app purchases. In some ways it would not surprise me if those Android apps in the Kindle Fire store are the first to appear in the Windows store, as those developers have no issue in tweaking their app to maximize exposure.

 

[c0wb0ycliche]

Something to note from this write up is the author (OP) says publishing to the Kindle fire store is one click. For pure AOSP apps, sure, but most apps like SnapChat use Google Services which both Amazon and Microsoft do not support. Instead they both have their own classes which you use to provide an alternative for things like messaging, maps and in app purchases. In some ways it would not surprise me if those Android apps in the Kindle Fire store are the first to appear in the Windows store, as those developers have no issue in tweaking their app to maximize exposure.

I agree wholeheartedly. But my concern is also exactly this - what DON'T you find in the Fire store? Snapchat, Instagram, Periscope, Meerkat, Google apps. etc.

 

[Jazmac]

I agree wholeheartedly. But my concern is also exactly this - what DON'T you find in the Fire store? Snapchat, Instagram, Periscope, Meerkat, Google apps. etc.

We put too much value in BS like snapchat. That single app should not be elevated to the level of what makes or breaks THIS platform. Kids make lot of noise an we should NOT allow kids whining ways to weight heavier than what adults do with Windows Phone. I am personally sick of it.

 

[KhawarNadeem]

Stockholm syndrome is what you are describing. I don't have it and I'm not blindly supportive either. One thing I have noticed is that nearly all of the people criticizing this approach have little or no understanding of software development. If the MS solution had been an emulation layer for iOS or Android I would not have been supportive at all. However, tools to help developers covert their existing code to native code is a whole different beast. I would be supportive of those tools even if WP had 99% market share. There is nothing wrong with providing good tools to developers. It is a big reason why the Windows desktop platform is so successful.

I want to frame your comments and hang them on my wall.
*slow clapping*

 

[realwarder]

I agree wholeheartedly. But my concern is also exactly this - what DON'T you find in the Fire store? Snapchat, Instagram, Periscope, Meerkat, Google apps. etc.

It would seem unusual that this is the case. There are quite a lot of Amazon devices too. It would not surprise me if Google has lunch with these people and they get special placement for staying on Google devices only... Conspiracy theory, yes, but then we are talking about the tech companies that colluded to not offer jobs preventing staff changing jobs between them. Silicon valley is a small place.

 

[fantakk]

Guys. We didn't consider a thing that is happening in the Android world right now. Basically, many phones company like Samsung (or for instance, Cyanogenmod) want to be indipendent from Google Services and from the Google Store, they want to limit the control that Google has on Android and its close code.
This will be crucial.

 

[c0wb0ycliche]

We put too much value in BS like snapchat. That single app should not be elevated to the level of what makes or breaks THIS platform. Kids make lot of noise an we should NOT allow kids whining ways to weight heavier than what adults do with Windows Phone. I am personally sick of it.

It would seem unusual that this is the case. There are quite a lot of Amazon devices too. It would not surprise me if Google has lunch with these people and they get special placement for staying on Google devices only... Conspiracy theory, yes, but then we are talking about the tech companies that colluded to not offer jobs preventing staff changing jobs between them. Silicon valley is a small place.

It isn't about what Snapchat or any other app specifically does, or how useful or not useful it is, its about what is on the platform. People use Snapchat and Instagram and so on, but also (like they pointed out on Windows Weekly yesterday) they use weird specific apps that are important to them (like a parking or public transportation app they use every day.)

These apps aren't in the Amazon store. They aren't on Blackberry. They can't be sideloaded on non-Play devices.

My concern is that if the developers didn't feel like taking the time to port them to Amazon (which while no one on earth bought the phone, the tablets sell like crazy) and make whatever Google service specific changes were required to make that work, why would they do it for Windows?

I'm even more concerned after some of the things said on WW yesterday. Not sure if its true, but they said that only phones/small tablets will be have the subsystem to run Android apps. iOS apps will run across all Windows 10 devices.

If that is the case - the argument that devs will do this because they can bring the device to all Windows devices- phone, tablet, PC, Xbox, HoloLens - doesn't stand. And that worries me.

 

[b0blight]

Well, I was expecting a flame war within here, but the threads so far have been very civilized with everyone discussing things with proper reasoning and respect of each other, something that is rarely seen here nowadays ! But on another hand, let me give my two cents on this issue. As a guy who just started to learn programming around a year ago (together with app development), this is some interesting technology here. I have learned to code using C#, Java and C++ (the last I just started not too long ago). In school, we are encouraged to develop for the Android platform, as that is the one having more userbase. Myself, I would want to develop for Windows, but I am equally excited to develop for Android. You see, for beginners like me, having some tool like this is quite cool, as I am to develop for multiple platform (Android, WP/Windows) with one language, and this allows for me to have a feel of what different platform feels like, without having to rewrite my entire program just for one specific platform. This saves time, while allowing us to gain more experience from different platforms. Big companies wise, I have no idea. Yes, some may like it, some may not. But this is early days, so I would really wait for when the thing come out before making any assumption. As for those who decry this approach or strongly oppose it, I think many of them have not done software development before, as bug-checking/testing takes up a whole lot of time, together with writing the program in the first place. But hey, I don't know. This is just my two cents worth on this topic, and this is coming from someone who just started to learn software development, so I may be very wrong in my thinking.

 

[Jazmac]

"My concern is that if the developers didn't feel like taking the time to port them to Amazon (which while no one on earth bought the phone, the tablets sell like crazy) and make whatever Google service specific changes were required to make that work, why would they do it for Windows?"

Not a concern for me. Amazon has tons of android apps on their platform, some of which we don't have here and I suspect those will be the first to arrive here. Bottom line to all of these unknowns is what services Microsoft will deliver to the platform. It looks from my vantage point its going to be huge. Its still not all about Microsoft "greasing the skids" for other platform developers anyway. That is just one bullet in the chamber. If it gets a good number of developers on board, those who only want to get their app in front of as many eyes as possible, its a win. Not all will come. Snapchat being one of them. I pushed to get it here because so many kids here think they need to have it. I don't care personally since it has no place in my lifestyle nor does it add anything measurable. Its an impressionable kids toy like beaney babies and cabbage patch dolls.

I'll say again, quit filtering everything you think about though google. If they got you feeling a bit fearful just hang up your Lumia, submit and go get an android device. We won't talk too bad about you. Its going to get a lot more messy before the dust clears.

I can't believe I'm still visiting this thread.

 

[Spectrum90]

It isn't about what Snapchat or any other app specifically does, or how useful or not useful it is, its about what is on the platform. People use Snapchat and Instagram and so on, but also (like they pointed out on Windows Weekly yesterday) they use weird specific apps that are important to them (like a parking or public transportation app they use every day.)

These apps aren't in the Amazon store. They aren't on Blackberry. They can't be sideloaded on non-Play devices.

My concern is that if the developers didn't feel like taking the time to port them to Amazon (which while no one on earth bought the phone, the tablets sell like crazy) and make whatever Google service specific changes were required to make that work, why would they do it for Windows?

I'm even more concerned after some of the things said on WW yesterday. Not sure if its true, but they said that only phones/small tablets will be have the subsystem to run Android apps. iOS apps will run across all Windows 10 devices.

If that is the case - the argument that devs will do this because they can bring the device to all Windows devices- phone, tablet, PC, Xbox, HoloLens - doesn't stand. And that worries me.

Android apps run only on Windows Mobile (ARM). iOS apps run everywhere.

Instagram is in the Amazon store.
http://www.amazon.com/Instagram/dp/...ag=hawk-future-20&ascsubtag=UUwpUvbUpU3081619

I think the Windows store is more attractive for developers than the Amazon store because the installed base of WPs is bigger and people spend more time on phones, install more apps on phones.

 

[colinkiama]

Android apps run only on Windows Mobile (ARM). iOS apps run everywhere.

Instagram is in the Amazon store.
http://www.amazon.com/Instagram/dp/...ag=hawk-future-20&ascsubtag=UUwpUvbUpU3081638

I think the Windows store is more attractive for developers than the Amazon store because the installed base of WPs is bigger and people spend more time on phones, install more apps on phones.

If instagram is on the amazon store, why wouldn't it be on the windows store?

 

[seb_r]

For me it is, according to the title of this thread, the end. See also my post here: http://forums.windowscentral.com/windows-10-general-discussion/354545-no-need-wait-windows-10-anymore.html
With the way they decide to go and the ongoing delays in everything or painfully slow rollout of updates etc. I am disappointed. MS has to catch up a LOT and does not progress fast enough. Trying to be different (compared to competitors) is actually a good thing and might open new markets but being different ,in this scenario, is in a negative way. Windows 10 for desktop is a different thing, I'm only talking about mobile devices.
To be honest I also wonder about the majority of users here clap their hands and blindly support and embrace everything MS does. Either cos of being pretty ignorant ("it does everything a smartphone needs to do for ME") or seeing things though ******-glasses all the time and not allow any criticism about their "baby".