Windows Mobile, BlackBerry or Android

[redbird]

Yes. Indeed. I already purchased a netbook and air card. It wakes up almost as fast as I can get the redfly running on bluetooth.

 

[jwebb56]

I agree. I will be moving to WM6.5 as us Epix owners really have no choice. At that point if I can't use the C8 it will go on ebay and be replaced by a Netbook. Some of the newer Netbooks are compact, have good specs and cost only a little more than a Redfly.

 

[mknollman]

I was a die hard redfly fan, but over time I got tired of tinkering with it. Once the "new" wore off (after almost 9 months) I got myself a refurb acer aspire one for $230 and then sold my C8 on ebay about 2 weeks ago.

My redfly served me well for the time I had it, but my netbook running windows 7 and set to autologin smokes it for connect time (thanks to having to wait for touchflo to shut off). I kept both devices for a while and weighed the pros and cons, but in the end there were no real pro left for the Fly other than security - well I still keep all my sensitive info on the phone or in the cloud, so that is not an issue eiither. A 6-cell battery gets my 7 solid hours of battery life - wow. Add pdanet or another tether program that gets around the tethering fee.and the Redfly just doesnt do it for me anymore.

The really ironic thing is this: I was the guy arguing the other side of this issue for months. I have come around. When I want a phone and a phone app - I love my TP2. When I want a PC and real apps, I want a PC and that is that.

Thanks Celio for a great device and great accessibility and support on this forum, but in the end the solution you offer is not the one for me (anymore at least). I am on my netbook now and I LOVE THIS THING!

 

[graham.hughes]

Cost benefits evapourate if you have to buy a new model every time you get a new phone. And with the death of the Iris browser, I'm not hopeful for the browsing experience to improve much in the near future.

Well... 6.5 is with us in a couple of days... let's see what Celio produce for us...

 

[badersk]

My C8 is acting up and It is out of warranty, I like it for the instant on factor but I also have a netbook and wireless card from work so I don't think I will upgrade to the C8N especially if it does not support 6.5

 

[grabaclue]

We've been hearing for MONTHS now that we need to be patient for WM6.5 support that Celio will tell us something when 6.5 ships officially. Well, it's shipping tomorrow (actually AT&T started shipping their first 6.5 phone a few days ago) and still we've heard NOTHING.

That added to the decision by Celio not to support Blackberry on the C8, is extremely disappointing.

The people on this forum, and most of the current customers are obviously early adopters. The kind of technology enthusiasts who will buy a new product and proudly show it off to their friends, which drives additional business to the vendor. I used to show off my C8, but since I upgraded my primary phone to WM 6.5 several months ago, my C8 sits in a drawer unused. (I also own a Blackberry 8900 and would have loved to have used my C8 with it, but there too Celio has let me down.)

I would have hoped that Celio would recognize that the same folks who are early adopters on their products are also likely early adopters of new OSes and phones and would be working to support us. Apparently that is not the case. I would also have hoped that Celio would put more value on releasing beta software to this same crowd for the free testing we'd provide. I guess not.

If/when Celio goes under, it will be primarily caused by their abysmal support provided to their most enthusiastic users.

 

[graham.hughes]

To defend Celio slightly, they cannot really provide support for an operating system that the OS vendor itself has not released and does not support. They would spend a huge amount of money playing catch-up as the OS is developed, and would have a huge number of support requests, many of which would be due to the OS.

That said, 6.5 launches today, and support needs to be in place quickly. I wonder if they've been distracted by trying to support BlackBerry and Android. Previously, Celio have provided excellent and very responsive support, and users of this forum have enjoyed direct access to a couple of Celio's top guys.

People are going to see Celio's ability to deliver support for 6.5 as an indicator of how they'll deliver when WM7 arrives (which is likely to be a bigger upgrade).

I can't be bothered with the pain of pre-release OSs, so I'm still on 6.1, and speed of delivery is not so much an issue for me. My bigger concern is that, if C8s can't be upgraded to support BB and Android, will upgrade for WM6.5 and 7 be possible?

 

[mknollman]

I have to agree with Graham on this one - I see nothing but prompt service and unrivaled accessibility from the people of Celio on this site. I have voiced my opinion on their solution in my life, and as stated above it just isn't good enough at what I want. So I switched to a netbook and have been very happy. But even after the switch I still am appreciative of ckj and laureny from celio (and a few others) who have frequented this forum and have been most helpful.

I also agree that expecting support for an OS before its release is asking a lttle much. I hope they hustle for you guys, but even 3-6 months is probably a realistic timeframe.

 

[grabaclue]

I also agree that expecting support for an OS before its release is asking a lttle much. I hope they hustle for you guys, but even 3-6 months is probably a realistic timeframe.

I disagree. The OS has been available for months now. Obviously it has, or several of us wouldn't have been using it. It was also available to Celio for development and testing. There is a reason several companies are release WM 6.5 phones this week. They all also had access to the OS for months now and planned their development accordingly.

My point is that Celio could have done the same (and may have, but are being awfully quiet about it) and could also have released beta code for widespread testing that many of us would have been happy to provide. It would have been a win-win. Celio gets their code tested practically for free, and their most enthusiastic customers, the early adopters, get to continue to use their devices with the new OS (also providing Celio with more chances to be seen in use in public).

They have missed a golden opportunity.

The lack of Blackberry support for the C8 users was just a kick in the teeth.

 

[graham.hughes]

It has not been officially available, in a production version. Developing for a beta quality platform is very different from developing for a production system. Developing software is hard enough, even more so when each new firmware version breaks code that you thought you'd finished.

Equally, supporting end users who may have a variety of different beta versions, none of which will be produced and tested by the manufacturers for the devices they're now running on, and many will have been butchered by god-knows-who, has several problems. One: it's an expensive nightmare. Two: it's useless from a QA point of view, since none of your testers are running release platforms. You spend a fortune chasing phantom bugs (bugs that only occur on one particular butchered firmware). Three: unfortunately, some people are unwise enough to install a beta operating system on a device they actually need, and these people become fractious when it all breaks, and they demand instant resolutions.

I'm sure Celio will have devices with 6.5, and they may well already have beta versions (testing in a closed group of we are not part). Or it may still be alpha. If they don't realize the need for 6.5 support, then they deserve to be out of jobs. They certainly haven't given the impression of being so slack.

For me... lack of BlackBerry support on the C8 is not distressing. First, because I have no intention of buying a BB. Second, I bought the C8 with the understanding that it worked with Windows Mobile, and under no impression that it would work on anything else. Though, I did assume it would work on future WinMo releases...

Well, it's now released. I do think that Celio should have some kind of ETA for us pretty soon.

 

[grabaclue]

Well, it's now released. I do think that Celio should have some kind of ETA for us pretty soon.

You make valid points, although I tend to give people running betas a bit more credit in that they know that what they're running may have bugs and should not expect perfection. While Celio may have to chase down "phantom bugs" I think it is a useful process in that it requires some investigation to determine that it's not a "real bug". As software QA professional, I would rarely argue in favor of less testing or of ignoring a good testing opportunity. Letting your users help test is a cheap way to identify a ton of corner-cases and problems that might likely be missed in the lab.

But I agree that, now that 6.5 is released officially, Celio should have an announcement soon. I think a little more communication on this forum would be nice, even if they're not quite ready to discus specifics or release some code.

 

[laurieny]

Update

First of all, I have to say that all of us at Celio Corp really do appreciate all of you avid REDFLY users who have supported us the last year. I am sorry that neither Colin and I have been real visible here in the last couple of months - mostly because we are working very hard in several areas including some key partnerships and partially because we don't want to provide inaccurate information or "pre-announce" vaporware.

6.5 support will be available really soon. While we understand the frustration of the early adopters who have been longing for a REDFLY build that would run on their cooked ROMS, unfortunately we just don't have the bandwidth to make supporting that feasible. Just keeping up with the changes Microsoft made over the course of the development cycle was challenging -even "official" builds caused things to break with our driver.

But, if some of you would like to test a beta 6.5 build, I would be happy to share this within the next week with the first 10 people who email me. There are very few "real" phones out there with actual blessed builds, so you need to want to take the risk of it not working and possibly causing a hard reset of your phone unless you just bought a new phone this week.

Also, given this is a Windows-focused forum I don't expect there will be many takers, but I would also be happy to let a few more people try out the BlackBerry builds - but you have to have a Bold 9000, a Curve 8900 or a Tour 9630 at this time.

And over the next 2 quarters we should have some more cool products and platform support to share...

Thanks,
Laurie

Director of Engineering
Celio Corp | REDFLY

 

[graham.hughes]

But, if some of you would like to test a beta 6.5 build, I would be happy to share this within the next week with the first 10 people who email me. There are very few "real" phones out there with actual blessed builds, so you need to want to take the risk of it not working and possibly causing a hard reset of your phone unless you just bought a new phone this week.

Hi Laurie,

Thanks for the update. We understand that the BlackBerry stuff won't work on the C8. Is that still so? Can you confirm that the WinMo 6.5 upgrade is currently working on the C8?

Cheers,
Graham.

 

[laurieny]

I don't want to seem to evade your question, so that is why I am responding - so at least you know I read it. ;-)

I need to defer answering your question directly for a little while, but one of us will provide direct information regarding this in the next 2 weeks.

Thanks,
Laurie

 

[sixftunda]

When I posted earlier, it was not meant to dump on Celio. I am very grateful for everything they have done. I have loved this product since it was a glimmer in bloggers eyes. I still think this is a great product. Unfortunately, I am now in love with a BlackBerry 9630. I SOOO wish my C8 would work with it. I guess I shall hope and pray for some good news from Laurieny in the next two weeks.

 

[redbird]

My C8 is standing by and ready to work with the BB...if that is in the works. If there is going to be a Redfly/BB forum around, perhaps someone could direct us to the link when it gets going.

 

[benjaminries]

I don't want to seem to evade your question, so that is why I am responding - so at least you know I read it. ;-)

I need to defer answering your question directly for a little while, but one of us will provide direct information regarding this in the next 2 weeks.

Thanks,
Laurie

Reminder: tomorrow is the 2-week anniversary of Celio's promise to provide info within 2 weeks.

For WM6.5 on C8, can you tell us what the problem is?
a) firmware code for WM6.5 too big to flash to C8 (but C8N and C7 came with larger ROM chips?)
b) C8 hardware too slow to handle WM6.5 kinetic scrolling?
c) other?

Can you also tell us where things are actually at?
a) no success getting C8 to connect to a WM6.5 device?
b) C8 connects to WM6.5 with alpha firmware/driver code, but performance unacceptable?
c) other?

If the C8 won't ever work with a WM6.5 phone, how can anyone buying a C8N or C7 believe that their device will work with WM7 when it comes out? If you've got bad news for us, please just say so before more people buy devices under certain impressions left by the "Celio Vision" promo material (i.e. that you won't need a new Redfly when you upgrade your phone).

 

[jwebb56]

benjaminries:
Sad to say but the 2 weeks promised is probably going to be 4-6 weeks. They are busy I'm sure trying to get 6.5 drivers produced/tested/released. That said they ought to have time and the business sense to give us a quick update and some actual facts about C8 compatibility. I for one will be very unhappy if the C8 is a dead end device, whether it be because of WM 6.5 or WM7. The longer we go without hearing any official information from Celio the more I fear the C8 does not have a future.

 

[jwebb56]

mknollman -- I'm gradually coming around to your viewpoint. Love my Redfly but becoming more aware of its limitations and more importantly less forgiving of them. WM6.5 might just be the breaking point.

 

[redbird]

October 31 and no update yet. Hello! Anyone home?

Gee wiz you would think with the input here they would at least respond. I guess in a way they are showing us their thoughts on the matter. It ain't good.