Windows Phone's future. It could be the same as Blackberry

[a5cent]

If MS wants WP to be important, it needs to innovate not catch up

Yes, well, instead of just saying they must innovate, how about offering a few ideas on what that innovation should be? What should they be doing that would appeal to many people, that doesn't exist elsewhere? You also asked if MS learned anything from BB's predicament. Well, how about mentioning exactly what it is they should have learned, that you think they might have missed?

That would be far more interesting than the 100th thread, worrying about MS' ability to carry WP into the future, that provides nothing beyond an air of fear and insecurity.

I'm personally surprised to hear that WP8.1 is likely to include a digital assistant similar to Google now, that will permeate all of the WP shell. That sounds interesting to me. It's also an unimaginable amount of very difficult work. If true, then we can definitely stop complaining about the WP team not working fast enough. To me, it's starting to look like WP8.1 will be functionally very close to iOS7. That would be quite an achievement. considering iOS had at least a three year head start. With that we aren't even considering that Apple hasn't got half of MS' work load on their plate, as they aren't unifying or integrating their OS' to the same degree MS is. I'm now again cautiously optimistic. More than I was a month ago.

 

[JamesDax]

It won't be

 

[AndreStudart]

it won't happen, why?

1- Microsoft has an endless pocket, money means development, and development means products, nokia has always presented GREAT phones and microsoft also have their revolutionary ideas, almost every products from it are good as heaven

2- Microsoft wants take part of smarthphones segment, why? because it bought nokia and this means that it wants to develop, smartphones are the future, don't forget that..

3- slow with updates? I don't get it, they've launched 3 updates this year (gdr1, gdr2 and in october, gdr3) which means they are equivallent with android, and in front of apple (launched 2 updates.)

4- Nokia team will be working in the same way, only under a different hood and with microsoft's endless pocket, great products are coming and still, microsoft is now heading to smartphones area as I told in number 1.

5- wanting or not, microsoft still is one of the most strong companies out there, great products, great name, but they HAVE to make a better marketing, which they seem be interested as well, since lumias have appeared in many videos from celebrities and even on movies..

6- Microsoft's money + nokia's reability/phones/teams = happy consumers.

7- windows phone is already the best user rated, winning from samsung (2nd place) and apple (3rd place).

future is going to be good guys.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

Pertinent point: BlackBerry hasn't failed yet. Yes, I concede things are dire.

But I think WP has a bit more of a financial cushion (obviously), and has a better overall ecosystem to support it over the long haul.

 

[rider2040]

The fate of Windows Phone is tied to the fate of Windows. If one fails, the other will surely fail. Phones may some day run on full Windows, but if phones aren't a part of the MS ecosystem, then Windows is done.

 

[rodan01]

Apple opened the door to Windows Phone with the price of the 5c. Intel opened another door pricing their baytrail cpus in the same level than ARM.

It's now or never Microsoft, don't be greedy, price aggressively.

 

[anon(7808135)]

BlackBerry isn't dead nor is Windows. They are just baby's starting to get better. I think in 5 years from now Windows and BlackBerry will be the top dogs. Ios hasn't changed so people are switching from IOS to Android. Android users are switching over to Microsoft and BlackBerry because there tired of security issues and the Bloatware. I love Windows for their laptops and tablets and BlackBerry for a phone.

 

[anon(7808135)]

BlackBerry didn't die, it's just a baby os that's getting better, just like Windows, give it time. I want Windows and BlackBerry to dominate the market, The 2 best systems in the world.

 

[montsa007]

Ios & Every new Apple Model - Lacking real innovation period.

Android - Buy a new android, use it for a month and experience how fast it can be.

Why the Windows Phone Has a Bright Future

I had a half page article yesterday in Economic times

Apple?s latest iteration of iPhones ? 5S and 5C ? will expand the company?s portfolio but do little to help increase its share of the world?s fastest-growing smartphone market, analysts and industry executives said.
With no indication from Apple that it is keen on becoming a significant player in India just yet ? its share of the smartphone market by volume is less than 2%, according to market researcher Canalys ? the new phones are expected to draw interest mainly from well-heeled aficionados.
?The two new iPhones will attract a niche audience like affluent youngsters and die-hard Apple fans as they are priced high and come in different colours,? said Himanshu Chakrawarti, CEO of Mobile Store.
Mobile Store is India?s largest mobile phone retail chain.
India has not been a critical market for Apple as majority of the smartphones sold in the country fall in the . 7,000-12,000 price range.
Telecom analysts and retailers said the iPhone 5S and 5C are priced much higher than they expected and are unlikely to find many takers here even as thousands of mobile users migrate from basic handsets to smartphones each day.
Chakrawarti said he expects the iPhone 5S, which comes with a built-in finger-print scanner, to be priced between . 45,000 and . 50,000. The 5C, he said, could be sold between . 35,000 and . 40,000. The iPhone 5 is sold in India for around . 45,000.
An Apple India spokesman said the company has not yet decided on the price of the devices or when they will be launched here. Over the past few quarters, Apple has been losing market share outside the US with firsttime smartphone buyers in countries such as India, Brazil and Indonesia opting for Samsung and other cheaper handsets running on Google?s Android software. In India, Canalys estimates that Samsung accounted for 36% of all smartphones sold in the country between April and June. In terms of value, Apple?s market share was 5% compared with Samsung?s 46%. Anshul Gupta, principal research analyst at technology research firm Gartner, was of the view that Apple?s intention is to continue with low volume sales and high margins. ?I don?t think Apple wants to play the market share game right now,? he said. Apple, he said, must launch its new handsets by December as rivals Samsung, LG and HTC gear up with their product launches for the upcoming festive season. ?If Apple doesn?t hurry up, they?ll be at a disadvantage.?
Apple?s trade partners, including the exclusive Apple Premium Resellers and multi-brand outlets, said there are indications that the two new models will be launched in India next month.
Brian Bade, chief executive of Reliance Digital, which also operates the exclusive iStore chain for Apple, said the pattern of shorter gaps between global and India launches suggests that the models will be available before Diwali.
Starting this year, Apple has mounted an advertising and marketing push, especially for its older iPhone 4 model that will no longer be sold in its home market. In recent days, it has been targeting students with discount and financing schemes for its iPad tablets and iMac laptops.
While earlier Apple was an insignificant player in India, the increased attention to this market has resulted in some gains, but not enough to make it a significant force in the smartphone segment.
Jayanth Kolla of telecom research firm Convergence Catalyst said he expects the latest iPhones to barely cause a ripple for Apple in India.
?Android is growing crazy, but Nokia is being sold and HTC is on crutches, so Samsung is its only serious rival. That will let Apple play in the niche category it falls into as of now,? he said.
(Additional reporting by Hitesh Raj Bhagat & Shelley Singh in New Delhi)

 

[andrew120]

Yes, well, instead of just saying they must innovate, how about offering a few ideas on what that innovation should be? What should they be doing that would appeal to many people, that doesn't exist elsewhere? You also asked if MS learned anything from BB's predicament. Well, how about mentioning exactly what it is they should have learned, that you think they might have missed?

That would be far more interesting than the 100th thread, worrying about MS' ability to carry WP into the future, that provides nothing beyond an air of fear and insecurity.

Sure, here are my thoughts:


1. Catching up & improve features
MS should make an extensive list of features from Android and iOS which Windows Phone does not have.
I am talking about both big and small features. Details matter.
Also, if the feature exists already in Windows Phone how well does it perform compared to competitors? How can it be improved to be better than competitor's?
Having the feature is not enough, it has to be compared to competitors and improved.

2. Phone-Tablet gap and app compatibility
Currently, if you look to Windows phone and tablet development and apps, it works differently than on iOS and Android.
In Windows, the store (metro) apps work on desktop and tablet (including Windows RT).
But they don't work on Windows Phone because WP development tools are different, the OS is different.
On both iOS and Android this is not the case, there is the same OS running on both phone and tablet.
Microsoft has been promoting the idea that the 'core' of Windows Phone 8 is the 'same' as the one from Windows 8. But in reality, apps are different, dev tools are different, APIs are different.
This is a BIG issue.
Unfortunately, from the GD3 leaks there are evident signs of divergence and lack of focus on at least unify the experience. As many pointed out, closing apps should be done by swiping not just closing by 'X. It might not be best example, but it's a bit annoying.

3. Create a new mobile technology
I think an HTML5-like (current web dev tools are limited) development technology is the future.
Mobile CPUs are stronger and the idea of "native" will become less important.
In Windows 8 they offer a set of dev tools to create apps using HTML5. They should offer the same thing for WP.

 

[Still Mostly Harmless]

I should preface this with the fact that I am an Android fan so my opinion may or may not matter, but this is an outsiders point of view.

1. Simplify

With the acquisition of Nokia Microsoft should start to push releasing 2-3 different models of phones once a year, similar to what Apple is doing now. Have a High-Mid-Low line of phones to appeal to everyone. They also need to kill off the Nokia way of naming phones. I am not into windows phones all that much but I do follow the tech. When I visit this board all the numbers going around give me a headache. Lumina 925, 928, 1020 etc..... They need to simplify this and let the rest of the world who aren't into windows phones know exactly what's coming out. With Apple with expect a X phone each year with an Xs phone to follow, with the Galaxy series we expect an SX version to come out each year. With Windows I don't know if the 928 is a marginal or big step up from the 925. Simple naming, simple numbers so that people who don't follow tech get it.

Same goes with all the windows versions out there. Windows Phone 8, Windows 8, Surface RT, Surface Pro...... From what I gather the Surface Pro uses Windows 8 or windows phone 8? And I don't even know what the Surface RT runs. They need to make this real simple for the consumers. With Mac you have iOS and OS, pretty simple. Windows 8 and Windows i8 or something along those lines.

2. Surface Pro

Microsoft really needs to make a stronger case for the Surface Pro. Recently I came across a video of someone running multiple monitors off their Surface Pro and it blew me away. I had absolutely no idea it could do things like that, and I like to follow tech stuff. I think Microsoft hit a home run with the Surface Pro. I believe that the majority of computer users out there today just need a computer to edit some family photos, make a video or two, word processing and viewing the web. While you can do all these things on some of the more advance tablets out there, people still like to use a real computer. This is where Microsoft can really hit it out of the park. Sell the Surface Pro as a complete computer/tablet system. Have a simple dock to which a monitor, keyboard, printer etc...can all be hook up to. Plug the Pro into the dock and boom you are using a full computer, pop it out and you got your tablet. Yes you will still have people who need a lot more processing power and for them regular tower systems will still exist with 3 video cards, 64gb ram etc.... Make this an all in one premium system.

3. Premium Computer Hardware

A few months ago I purchased a Macbook Pro Retina. It was my first non-windows computer. I am a sucker for build quality. I had the unique experience of having both a Windows Store and an Apple store in the same mall by me. I literally spent hours in each looking for my next laptop. I had zero preference on OS. I walked out that day with a Macbook Pro Retina. The build quality on it is top notch and I didn't see anything at the windows store that could match that. Press down on the lid of a Lenovo and it squeaked, start typing on a Acer and the keyboard flexed, etc.... Microsoft would do really well if they built premium computer hardware. In fact, in all of this I was really thinking about getting a Google Pixel (since I am a big android fan) but it couldn't do what I needed it to do (basic video/photo editing). I would have spent the money on it because it was built so well. Microsoft needs to shed the cheap plastic image you think of when you get a windows laptop.

4. Value of the Brand

This is basically just a summary of everything I typed. Use the acquisition of Nokia to build premium phones. Start showing off the full potential of the Surface Pro. It's not just a tablet, it's truly a computer replacement. That makes it so much easier to swallow the higher price tag. And lastly build quality computer hardware. Microsoft needs to get away from being seen as a run of the mill brand and start to follow Apple in looking like a premium brand. Even as an Android user I know that people view Android and Apple very differently. Apple is seen as a sophisticated device while Android is seen as a playful device.

I am not sold on using an iPhone or a Windows phone which is why I have my Android phone. But had I known better what the Surface Pro could do, I think I could have saved myself some money and purchased one instead of my laptop and tablet, maybe next time around. Blackberry is a lost cause, they couldn't adapt fast enough. I believe Microsoft is far from that and has the potential to really step up their game. I like stiff competition because it's better for consumers. When companies do battle we win.

 

[George Jenkinson]

Interesting thesis, but I don't agree.

Blackberry isn't dead yet and although small, they haven't disappeared and my guess is they won't. I would hope that Microsoft are very careful with how they steer the design of any new "Nokia" phones so that they don't lose their unique design. From my English viewpoint, I love the Finnish style and design, it is unmatched in phones and it represents a design school that no other manufacturer follows and I can't think of one phone from Nokia in the current Lumia line-up that is ugly.

Apple is quite Californian; HTC, Samsung, ZTE and other Chinese handsets appear to me to be Asian designs after an American style, but I can't think of one phone that is aesthetically pleasing. Blackberry are somehow a mish-mash of US styling with something I can't define.

Provided any phones Microsoft design aren't of the X box style, or overtly Californian, they should retain their design appeal. In a day and age where computers can set the design parameters if allowed to, it behoves a company to allow the design the shine.

 

[George Jenkinson]

I should preface this with the fact that I am an Android fan so my opinion may or may not matter, but this is an outsiders point of view.

1. Simplify

With the acquisition of Nokia Microsoft should start to push releasing 2-3 different models of phones once a year, similar to what Apple is doing now. Have a High-Mid-Low line of phones to appeal to everyone. They also need to kill off the Nokia way of naming phones. I am not into windows phones all that much but I do follow the tech. When I visit this board all the numbers going around give me a headache. Lumina 925, 928, 1020 etc..... They need to simplify this and let the rest of the world who aren't into windows phones know exactly what's coming out. With Apple with expect a X phone each year with an Xs phone to follow, with the Galaxy series we expect an SX version to come out each year. With Windows I don't know if the 928 is a marginal or big step up from the 925. Simple naming, simple numbers so that people who don't follow tech get it.

Same goes with all the windows versions out there. Windows Phone 8, Windows 8, Surface RT, Surface Pro...... From what I gather the Surface Pro uses Windows 8 or windows phone 8? And I don't even know what the Surface RT runs. They need to make this real simple for the consumers. With Mac you have iOS and OS, pretty simple. Windows 8 and Windows i8 or something along those lines.

2. Surface Pro

Microsoft really needs to make a stronger case for the Surface Pro. Recently I came across a video of someone running multiple monitors off their Surface Pro and it blew me away. I had absolutely no idea it could do things like that, and I like to follow tech stuff. I think Microsoft hit a home run with the Surface Pro. I believe that the majority of computer users out there today just need a computer to edit some family photos, make a video or two, word processing and viewing the web. While you can do all these things on some of the more advance tablets out there, people still like to use a real computer. This is where Microsoft can really hit it out of the park. Sell the Surface Pro as a complete computer/tablet system. Have a simple dock to which a monitor, keyboard, printer etc...can all be hook up to. Plug the Pro into the dock and boom you are using a full computer, pop it out and you got your tablet. Yes you will still have people who need a lot more processing power and for them regular tower systems will still exist with 3 video cards, 64gb ram etc.... Make this an all in one premium system.

3. Premium Computer Hardware

A few months ago I purchased a Macbook Pro Retina. It was my first non-windows computer. I am a sucker for build quality. I had the unique experience of having both a Windows Store and an Apple store in the same mall by me. I literally spent hours in each looking for my next laptop. I had zero preference on OS. I walked out that day with a Macbook Pro Retina. The build quality on it is top notch and I didn't see anything at the windows store that could match that. Press down on the lid of a Lenovo and it squeaked, start typing on a Acer and the keyboard flexed, etc.... Microsoft would do really well if they built premium computer hardware. In fact, in all of this I was really thinking about getting a Google Pixel (since I am a big android fan) but it couldn't do what I needed it to do (basic video/photo editing). I would have spent the money on it because it was built so well. Microsoft needs to shed the cheap plastic image you think of when you get a windows laptop.

4. Value of the Brand

This is basically just a summary of everything I typed. Use the acquisition of Nokia to build premium phones. Start showing off the full potential of the Surface Pro. It's not just a tablet, it's truly a computer replacement. That makes it so much easier to swallow the higher price tag. And lastly build quality computer hardware. Microsoft needs to get away from being seen as a run of the mill brand and start to follow Apple in looking like a premium brand. Even as an Android user I know that people view Android and Apple very differently. Apple is seen as a sophisticated device while Android is seen as a playful device.

I am not sold on using an iPhone or a Windows phone which is why I have my Android phone. But had I known better what the Surface Pro could do, I think I could have saved myself some money and purchased one instead of my laptop and tablet, maybe next time around. Blackberry is a lost cause, they couldn't adapt fast enough. I believe Microsoft is far from that and has the potential to really step up their game. I like stiff competition because it's better for consumers. When companies do battle we win.

Very astute observations, thank you for sharing them.

Out of interest, which Android phone do you have as I'm only aware of HTC One as a phone comparable to the design ethos of Apple?

 

[ParoleGA]

Tizen is more like a concept now but its architecture is from the future.
As mobile CPUs get more and more powerful, it will need someone like Steve Jobs to create a device optimized for running HTML5.

Steve Jobs did a lot of things. Creating devices was never one of them.

 

[fatclue_98]

Mods, please change the title of this thread to "Chicken Little Redux"

 

[snowmutt]

Most of us agree this threads are silly, yet we all come on and post...

Let's face it, to some degree anyone who enjoys MS products are a little worried this cross platform dream we have of MS devices and services is just too big to accomplish. For every great vision- WP updates over the air to all devices, XBOX games to all devices, a music service that works to all phones/concils/computers/tablets, cloud interconnection, Skype seamlessly intergrated for commnuication excellence- there are interface problems, carrier interventions, slow sales, poor execution, and sometimes just plain steps backwards. Throw in that Nokia as a driving force behind WP development is now being absorbed into the monolith and we have no idea if a new CEO will carry this vision into the future correctly and we become concerned. Hence, these threads show up.

But we really shouldn't be. Microsoft as a viable company is in the balance. I do not believe desk top use of laptops/PCs will go away anytime in the next decade, but it is pretty simple: Either a company buys into the future of mobile computing or you get left behind. The artist that used to be known as RIM was a hardware, hardwired, mobile phone only company. Back before LTE intergration, RIM could charge carriers a little extra for helping them with bandwidth due to the way they ran their systems. Not anymore. Carriers don't need it, and RIM failed to change. RIM could offer businesses secure systems: Now all signals/comapnies can do that themselves to some degree. RIM failed to change. Cloud storage? Nope. Music service? Nah, not really. Software? Tablet computing? Top of the line hardware? Gaming/multimedia/apps for the consumer? Nope, nope, nah, no way, not happening.

MS can say yes to all of this. MS still has billions from their patent protfolio and services rolling in. MS has made their mistakes, fell behind, and are fighting their way back.

I ramble, I am sorry. But this is not the same story, not even close. MS is not BlackBerry. Niether is WP.

If MS fails, it will be from trying to do too much, never from not doing enough.

 

[Bartdog]

Well historically you could argue that android's future could be the same as blackberry - or apple for that matter.

Blackberry dominated - didn't adapt quick enough - died
Apple dominated - grew stale - on decline
Android - came from nowhere - currently dominating
Windows - always been the little guy in the background - never dominated but never disappeared.

Now speaking futureifically (yes I made that word up) who's next for androids crown? - a few years ago it was HTC but they made some miss-steps allowing Samsung to take the lead and have never properly recovered - If Samsung break away with Tizen what happens to android? Are the nexus devices enough to keep hold of that 76% marketshare?

Now theres another player.
Samsung with Tizen and a large share of loyalists
Apple with a share of loyalists but a stagnating platform
Android loyalists stuck with the Nexus devices and a small share of OEMs
Windows - the little guy at the back with a group of loyalists - feeding of the scraps and getting bigger.

Always watch out for the little guy...

Insight into a possible future? Or complete BS and 10 minutes of my life wasted.

Either way - nobody knows what's going to happen

who's next? probably a Chinese company.

 

[AngryNil]

MS should make an extensive list of features from Android and iOS which Windows Phone does not have...
...Having the feature is not enough, it has to be compared to competitors and improved.

Microsoft should take every single feature from the other platforms and improve each one? Fantastic idea, why didn't they think of that before? rly:

Microsoft has been promoting the idea that the 'core' of Windows Phone 8 is the 'same' as the one from Windows 8. But in reality, apps are different, dev tools are different, APIs are different.

Are you talking from experience or from one Google search? You're insinuating that developing for the two is completely different; that is patently false.

 

[wamsille]

Doom and gloom threads are amusing.

:smile:

Currently in active development and commercial deployment we have:

• Google Android
• Apple iOS
• Windows Phone
• Blackberry OS

Gone are Symbian, PalmOS, WebOS, Windows Mobile...ancient relics incapable of evolving and/or capturing enough market share to remain relevant in 2013.

We will not know the fate of Blackberry for a while. They have not died out, they have not been bought out (right?) and they still have a loyal fanbase and a sizeable share of the corporate world. It isn't the crown jewel that it was years ago, but what do you expect when an industry has seen so many new innovations in software and hardware design?

Blackberry hedged their bets with their own OS; many would argue that as a company, they could have produced handsets and software for competing operating systems and been more profitable. While I couldn't see an iOS Blackberry, a device running Android with Blackberry services would have been a coveted item. Their new OS is as much a depature from the Blackberry of old and a desparate attempt to cling on to the things that have kept them relevant in mobile. From the positive reviews I have read away from Crackberry, people really seem pleased with their purchases. However, I haven't seen the phones fly off the shelves. I have seen many ads on Craigslist selling these for $375, sometimes slightly more or less to get out of contract and go to another carrier and get a new line. (For that matter I see similar legitimate listings for Android and Windows Phone)

Microsoft is a different company. They are also a more diversified company. Their portfolio in mobile, desktop, search and gaming is enough to keep them going for some time. Iconic and grandfathered software like Windows [desktop] and Office are the bread and butter. Xbox One will eventually break even and at some point make a profit but it is really a crapshoot for them. By acquiring Nokia, Microsoft is bringing in a device maker that can hopefully keep quality Windows Phone devices in the mix while support for the platform is a mixed bag with Samsung and HTC. Even if Microsoft is 100% Windows Phone with no outside OEM help, Apple has proven this model can still work 2013 provided the OS has enough marketshart. Blackberry should serve as the solid reminder that lacking in innovation and scalability will mean a slow death for the platform.

If Microsoft wanted to be agressive and there was true value behind the purchase, they could buy Blackberry. However, what would it do for their overall bottom line? Do they really want to rewrite pieces of Windows Phone to incorporate Blackberry applications and features? Microsoft wants to succeed on their own, without interoperability with other mobile operating systems.

 

[6Kings]

I actually think WP8 OS is better than the Widows 8. I have a Win8 tablet, Win8 Laptop, and WP8 phone and that tablet pisses me off every time I use it. I would hope they don't merge WP8 and Win8.