WP lacks a solid mid-end contender

prasath1234

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Hm I agree to an extent.but daylight captures are gud if not bad.nd also nokia camera beta is very gud.pictures are bearable.

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Pieter Wolff

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820 never caught up due to bad camera n bulk. 720 was interesting but many ppl stay away due to 512mb ram

I don't entirely agree. As long as you don't play any games 512mb ram is more than sufficient for normal daily use. My 720 perfectly fits that bill...
 

anon5997296

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What is 920 now?? It's a mid ranger compared to 1520 or upcoming 929 or whatever.. And it's price nowadays is mid range. Yes 725 with all specs of 920 and a bigger battery like 2800 MAh would be better. Cause, I don't need 1080p or bigger than 4.5 inches. I'm fine with HD 4.5 inch display.
 

buxz777

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in the uk it is very different we have

# 520 for under ?100
#620 for under ?150
#720 for under ?200
#820 for ?200 or just under
#920 for ?220 or just over
#925 for ?350
#1020 32gb for ?500
#1020 64gb for ?600
#1520 around ?600

so in the mid price bracket in the uk we have the 720/820 or even 920 ......... I think all them phones can compete with mid-end androids on the market at the minute at them price points ;-)

what would you expect too see from a mid range phone the 720/820 and 920 all have pretty good spec for their price points and I wouldn't class the 920 price point as high end any more its a super bang for buck device and at mid range price point in the uk now ;-)
 

Huime

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Your idea only sound legit, not that it will work, in US market.

Anywhere else especially where unit legal tender is a fraction of a dollar your idea of having a mid range is not gonna work.
In such a market, which is actually where Nokia actually makes their money, flagship needs to be a flagship. And those smart *** that want to get flagship spec with budget price would probably wait a few months till a price drop which can go up to 50%. For example 920 started of $650-750 but dropped to $400 within 6mo, 925 beat it and hit 400 within 4mo. 720 survived because it was launch together with the full price 925. And there is a significant number of the smart *** described early got the 820 instead of the new shinny downgraded 720. Either way, no point having a mid range as your describe.

And on the side note, Moto G's 195 price tag doesnt work outside of its limited release market. And Moto do not have to resource to ensure a global release with that price. I would advice stop making fantasy with it.
 

fdalbor

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Verizon is getting ready to release the Moto G at a 100$ price point starting January 8th. Don't know if that is going to be a permanent thing or not. Nokia needs to keep the 520/525 below 100$ to keep the low end. I have a 820 myself and am very happy with it. I bought a 520 to backup my 820, but don't plan on upgrading the 820 anytime soon. But I am looking to replace my backup 520 as my wife fell in love with it after I got a red backcover for it and she took it to replace her flip phone.
 

WanderingTraveler

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Verizon is getting ready to release the Moto G at a 100$ price point starting January 8th. Don't know if that is going to be a permanent thing or not. Nokia needs to keep the 520/525 below 100$ to keep the low end. I have a 820 myself and am very happy with it. I bought a 520 to backup my 820, but don't plan on upgrading the 820 anytime soon. But I am looking to replace my backup 520 as my wife fell in love with it after I got a red backcover for it and she took it to replace her flip phone.

Okay, is that PAYG or on contract? It would sell well at both price points, though.

As for the 520/521 , it's not impossible for Nokia+T-Mo/AT&T to keep subsidizing it sub-$100. I think they could actually take enough of a hit to get to a $60 price point, after all.

We need a true 52x successor, aside from the 525.
 

AdamHunterATC

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I want a follow-up to the 82x series. I currently have an 822, and I actually really like it. I would just like to see a 720p screen and PureView tech on it, and I'd be a happy camper.
 

bilzkh

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Your idea only sound legit, not that it will work, in US market.

Anywhere else especially where unit legal tender is a fraction of a dollar your idea of having a mid range is not gonna work.
In such a market, which is actually where Nokia actually makes their money, flagship needs to be a flagship. And those smart *** that want to get flagship spec with budget price would probably wait a few months till a price drop which can go up to 50%. For example 920 started of $650-750 but dropped to $400 within 6mo, 925 beat it and hit 400 within 4mo. 720 survived because it was launch together with the full price 925. And there is a significant number of the smart *** described early got the 820 instead of the new shinny downgraded 720. Either way, no point having a mid range as your describe.

And on the side note, Moto G's 195 price tag doesnt work outside of its limited release market. And Moto do not have to resource to ensure a global release with that price. I would advice stop making fantasy with it.
Sure, but the rest of the world doesn't necessarily operate like that. In Canada the major carriers are still selling the L920 around its original price.

Secondly, the price of the mid-end phone can also go down with time, let's think about launch periods. Q4 of a year tends to be a very good period for sales, why not make a full out push by tapping into as many different market-segments as possible? With a flagship you're restricted to the smaller audience, with a mid-end complimenting it (as has been the case before with L800/710 and L920/820), you've got a bigger net. The precedent for it is there with the L710 and to an extent L820.
 

cckgz4

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Verizon is getting ready to release the Moto G at a 100$ price point starting January 8th. Don't know if that is going to be a permanent thing or not. Nokia needs to keep the 520/525 below 100$ to keep the low end. I have a 820 myself and am very happy with it. I bought a 520 to backup my 820, but don't plan on upgrading the 820 anytime soon. But I am looking to replace my backup 520 as my wife fell in love with it after I got a red backcover for it and she took it to replace her flip phone.

While this is great, it only works on their 3g and you can only use it with a Verizon plan and none of the other prepaid carriers, which sucks if Verizon is more expensive. And I heard their 3g is the pits
 

DCProjMgr

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What we need is someone other than Nokia/Microsoft making Windows Phones. Nokia is putting out a reasonable spread of devices (other than their size fixation, which I've already put in another thread), but I agree that there is a hole in the middle of the range. But I don't think you can expect one manufacturer to cover every market. I wish HTC were in better shape - they do a really nice product and could gone after users that Nokia missed.
 

Huime

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Sure, but the rest of the world doesn't necessarily operate like that. In Canada the major carriers are still selling the L920 around its original price.

Secondly, the price of the mid-end phone can also go down with time, let's think about launch periods. Q4 of a year tends to be a very good period for sales, why not make a full out push by tapping into as many different market-segments as possible? With a flagship you're restricted to the smaller audience, with a mid-end complimenting it (as has been the case before with L800/710 and L920/820), you've got a bigger net. The precedent for it is there with the L710 and to an extent L820.
Yes, phones get old and drop price. But whats the margin?
1\ Which is why it is another bad example. Again, how many do they sell in Canada to justify a new model?
2\ Like you said, you are ok with a sub $350 price if they spec is decent, then why not just wait for a price drop in flagship? Spec check, price check, done deal.
3\ Why fill the Q4 market with low margin model that will harm your flagships and mid-hi 8 series? Did you not notice lower series always comes mid Q1 and ever think about why?
4\ Market share means nothing if you are making losses.
5\ Nokia already have too many models and all they do is just handicap one after another to justify the value.
6\ With 13series coming in from the top and 6series pushing from the bottom, 7 or 8 series, one will have to go or you will see they will be a handicap ver. of each other.
 

tgp

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Yes, phones get old and drop price. But whats the margin?

Good point. I doubt that production costs drop. Maybe some, but not enough to keep the margins up. I also wonder if the perception of buying a year-old model, especially on a 2-year contract, isn't a detriment to simply using an older flagship as a mid-range.

Maybe something on the order of Apple's method with the iPhone 5c is the way to go. It's essentially a 5 with a bit of an upgrade (LTE bands & battery) in a new shell. To virtually all customers it's a new release.
 

bilzkh

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Yes, phones get old and drop price. But whats the margin?
1\ Which is why it is another bad example. Again, how many do they sell in Canada to justify a new model?
2\ Like you said, you are ok with a sub $350 price if they spec is decent, then why not just wait for a price drop in flagship? Spec check, price check, done deal.
3\ Why fill the Q4 market with low margin model that will harm your flagships and mid-hi 8 series? Did you not notice lower series always comes mid Q1 and ever think about why?
4\ Market share means nothing if you are making losses.
5\ Nokia already have too many models and all they do is just handicap one after another to justify the value.
6\ With 13series coming in from the top and 6series pushing from the bottom, 7 or 8 series, one will have to go or you will see they will be a handicap ver. of each other.

Not everyone in the world is going out of their way to look for a Windows Phone, i.e. they're not going to just wait for a flagship to drop in price. Most consumers want to buy something at a specific moment in time, the onus is on Microsoft to offer the best deal for that user on time. How can anyone expect the user to wait when there's nothing to wait for? The case we want to make is "choose Windows Phone over Nexus or a Moto." The reality of the competition is lower pricing and customers who are looking for a negotiable price-point. You can't use "just wait" as a selling point, those buyers will buy Nexus/Moto, and hence, customers lost (for MSFT).

As for Q4, let's look at the reality. Thus far those who want and are able to get a high-end Windows Phone will get a high-end Windows Phone, regardless of whether a mid-end version is available. You don't need much convincing if you're already predisposed to leaving your comfort zone for a Windows Phone. Of all the new Lumia 1020 owners I know, they didn't even look at the Lumia 520 at the store, they had a target and that was the 1020. People outside of that segment, i.e. everyone else who are ambivalent to their choices or considering Android/iOS, will need more convincing. Here's where a more negotiable price-point and better value proposition come into play. A good camera is nice, but what about a good camera, nice styling and a $350 price-tag? The question here is about getting those not predisposed to Windows Phone to look into WP.

As for market-share. Unless we see the actual phone, we can't automatically assume that it's going to be a loss leader. Margins will be tighter though. However, the reality of higher market-share and bigger user base is increased developer attention, and in turn, more apps, services and games, and in turn, stronger cause for user-retention and user growth. Moreover, more Windows Phone users also means more potential users of Bing and Skype.

Yes, Nokia has a lot of models and Microsoft is better off standardizing them into 3 or 4 core models.
 

bilzkh

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I am going to dig up my old thread since it was postulated once or twice that Q4 tends to be Windows Phone's best sale period...well...it wasn't this time. Nokia dropped off slightly in Q4 and I think this had to do with the lack of solid 'in the middle' offerings: i.e. a true mid-end competitor against Moto X/G, and worse yet, absence of refreshed 9xx and 8xx phones. Although it is easy to blame Microsoft for not picking up fast enough on the software side, I honestly think the gap could've been closed on the hardware side. As I said earlier, a $350 Lumia 7xx with the same core specs as Moto G but with PureView and LTE would have been compelling.
 

Cryio

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Anyone who asks me for a WP device, I point them to the Lumia 720 for the best bang for the buck. If someone needs the best of the best, I recommend them of the course the L925.

Most people don't care about the limited ram. It still performs stellar. Even more so with the 8.1
 

ListenUpGuys

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I'm sure someone must have already said that many companies steer clear of putting too much into their mid-range devices because it would affect sales of the more profitable high-end devices. It's not just phones, but all manner of consumer goods. Mid-range stuff is often the least profitable.

Also it's mid-range, not mid-end. Low-end and high-end, but mid-range.
 

nallWhite

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Too me the specs of the 520 are good for emerging markets. For others 16 GB storage, Quad-core and 1GB RAM should be standard. The 520/521 are the most used Windows phones (what I have) and devs see that. More RAM is more games for the platform.
 

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