WP8 Multitasking Behavior

[c8m6p]

Based on the Skype app demonstration (which was taken down unfortunately), and perhaps other hands-on preview videos of WP8.. It appears that Multitasking still functions the same way as it does in WP7.5.. I think this will be a dissapointment to many of us as I know that improved multitasking was one of the most requested features of WP7.5.

Multitasking currently has a few shortcomings in WP7.5 that many find frustrating..

-Open an app, navigate within the app, and hit the windows button. Then open the app again from the start screen, the app reboots from scratch as opposed to resuming in the same place you left off.

-The dreaded "resuming" message when switching to a "tombstoned" app from the multitasking menu. When playing Wordament, for example, checking a toast notification for 2 seconds between games, then switching back to Wordament using the app switcher, Wordament will "resume" and in the mean time it's disconnected you from the session and you have to reconnect all over again.

-Using WhatsApp for messaging, after sending a message, hitting the windows button leaving the App "tombstoned" in the background. Then when you receive a message, click the toast notification, it takes a full 5-7 seconds for the App to reboot and display the received message.

-No way to close apps outright from the multitasking menu. Defendands of this say there's "No need becasue windows phone tombstones the apps so they don't drain battery even though they are open". The truth is that the apps aren't even really open, switching to them from the multitasking menu basically restarts them from scratch. Hence why they don't drain any battery when they're supposedly "open".

In it's current form, Multitasking really does not have even exist in WP7. The "tombstone" function is clunky in it's current form, and many apps restart from scratch or take a while to return to their state after you switch to them from the multitasking menu.

Android offers full multitasking, which is why many people have battery drain. iOS on the other hand has the same "tombstone" function, except that Apps seem to boot up instantaneously once switched to in iOS (or much quicker than WP7 at least). In addition, if you have an App open in iOS and you re-open the App from the start screen it will return to where you left off, not reboot the app all together.

WP8 needed to make Multitasking function closer to the way iOS operates. Unfortunately from what I've seen so far, it doesn't. I love WP7, but this is a huge let down for me. Multitasking just feels limited and not really like multitasking at all. Not sure how MS could've overlooked this, and not sure why they did either.

I'm hoping the official OS reveal will be different than what I've seen so far, but Skype is supposed to be one of those "able to run in the background" programs and the way it behaved during the demo video really didn't look like that was the case. It looked like incoming calls are just going to be done via push notifications and nothing more. And the "integration" is nothing more than a link to open the Skype app in the people hub.

Dissapointed. Hope this thread doesn't get deleted.

 

[SnailUK]

I don't understand the frustration with the integration, you can make and receive Skype calls from within people or contacts hub. What more di we need?

Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express

 

[a5cent]

The dreaded "resuming" message when switching to a "tombstoned" app from the multitasking menu.

It's not all up to Microsoft. Developers need to make sure their apps work correctly too. In the example you've provided, it's the developer's fault, not that of Microsoft.

If it was up to me, I would force-remove these apps from the marketplace until they are corrected, but that would drastically lower the WP app count... as it is now, app count is more important than quality, so that ain't happening.

 

[power5]

Microsoft's Windows Phone Summit & Windows Phone 8 - YouTube

The summit at 1:22:00 starts talking about VOIP and skype. Will run in background so you can go to the web and other stuff just like it was a phone call. This is great.

Skype calls will come in just like normal phone calls. They will run in the background without the chance of them falling off the tombstone list either. Skype will work just like normal phone calls. Not like the worthless app works now.

 

[a5cent]

No way to close apps outright from the multitasking menu. Defendands of this say there's "No need becasue windows phone tombstones the apps so they don't drain battery even though they are open". The truth is that the apps aren't even really open, switching to them from the multitasking menu basically restarts them from scratch. Hence why they don't drain any battery when they're supposedly "open".

Upon reactivation, some apps always react as though they were tombstoned, even though they were just waiting in the background (dormant). This makes them appear as though they were started from scratch even if they were not. Any WP7.5 app (Mango) should wake up almost instantaneously after being selected from the task-switcher. Not doing so must be considered a bug. Dormant apps don't use any CPU cycles, but they do use memory.

In general, you are making Microsoft responsible for things they have only limited control over! Bug the developers of your apps and you will see improvement.

 

[AngryNil]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Really.

Apps are frozen in the background. Apps updated for 7.5 resume instantly. They are still loaded in memory. Your entire premise is false, there is no technical limitation for the start screen to resume apps. Microsoft can change one line in the app compiler and VS will package apps to resume from the start screen.

Skype does run in the background. It uses a VoIP background agent. How do you think calls are received when the app isn't open if it was tombstoned?

All this talk of tombstoning seems to indicate you're stuck in the pre-Mango world. Tombstoning is only executed with old apps that haven't been coded against 7.5 and when the system needs to free up memory (which is not often, I rarely see a resuming screen and I have hacked my Omnia to have 15 tasks in the switcher). Read up on Mango, it's been out in various forms for over a year now.

 

[rockstarzzz]

It's not all up to Microsoft. Developers need to make sure their apps work correctly too. In the example you've provided, it's the developer's fault, not that of Microsoft.

If it was up to me, I would force-remove these apps from the marketplace until they are corrected, but that would drastically lower the WP app count... as it is now, app count is more important than quality, so that ain't happening.

"resume" screen has nothing to do with devs. None of the devs can actually get rid of that screen, if they can, they would have.

I don't understand the frustration with the integration, you can make and receive Skype calls from within people or contacts hub. What more di we need?

Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express

Better integration = how facebook messaging is integrated to messaging, same could have been done with Skype.

Opening an app, kills it.

This isn't how many of us would have thought integration would work. Opening an app from a shortcut placed within a hub isn't integration.

Microsoft's Windows Phone Summit & Windows Phone 8 - YouTube

The summit at 1:22:00 starts talking about VOIP and skype. Will run in background so you can go to the web and other stuff just like it was a phone call. This is great.

Skype calls will come in just like normal phone calls. They will run in the background without the chance of them falling off the tombstone list either. Skype will work just like normal phone calls. Not like the worthless app works now.

Even if it runs in background it still opens an app. So yes, great to know that it will run in background without any sort of battery drain, but they still resume like they were in tombstone state.

Provided an app only supports tomb-stoning you are correct, but developers should also support fast-task-switiching, in which case they really do remain open. Those open apps, waiting in the background, don't waste CPU cycles, but they do use memory.

In general, you are making Microsoft responsible for things they have only limited control over! Bug the developers of your apps and you will see improvement.

Gimme an example of an app with FTS please? Are there any apps that don't show me a resume screen or don't load from the scratch?

 

[c8m6p]

Spare me the personal insult, I can give more specific examples of the tombstoning behavior and I've been using 7.5 for a year.

Microsofts own Bing maps: every time you put this app in the background it loses a lock on your location, and switching back to it means you have to wait (sometimes minutes) until it finds you again.

Gmaps pro: every time you switch out of it the map has to reload.

Whatsapp: already mentioned it, the app will be "opened in the background" but clicking on a toast notification will re-open the app from scratch.

Metrogram: same thing, app will be "opened", yet clicking on a toast opens the app from scratch.

wordament: already mentioned that this app displays resuming. You're correct that not all apps display this behavior but wordament is a premier app for the platform and there are others that still exhibit this behavior as well.

Now you say "Microsoft can change one line of code" to resume an opened app if clicked on from the start screen or a toast notification instead of boot it from scratch.

My point is not whether or not MS is capable of it, which im sure they are, its why they have decided NOT to change this line of code and fix it.

And ditto with the little "x" button to be able to kill an app from the multitasking menu. Im sure MS can do it, but again, they're forcing us to switch to an app and hit the back button several times till it actually closes out.

So say all you want about what MS is "capable" of doing with WP8, if they dont do it, then the end user (people like me) doesn't care what WP8 is capable of. We just want something that functions quickly and efficiently, and as of right now certain aspects of multitasking are deficient in WP7.5 and dont look to change in WP8.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Really.

Apps are frozen in the background. Apps updated for 7.5 resume instantly. They are still loaded in memory. Your entire premise is false, there is no technical limitation for the start screen to resume apps. Microsoft can change one line in the app compiler and VS will package apps to resume from the start screen.

Skype does run in the background. It uses a VoIP background agent. How do you think calls are received when the app isn't open if it was tombstoned?

All this talk of tombstoning seems to indicate you're stuck in the pre-Mango world. Tombstoning is only executed with old apps that haven't been coded against 7.5 and when the system needs to free up memory (which is not often, I rarely see a resuming screen and I have hacked my Omnia to have 15 tasks in the switcher). Read up on Mango, it's been out in various forms for over a year now.

 

[socialcarpet]

Some apps restart with a splash screen etc. when you switch out of them. Others do not. That tells me it's a developer issue, not an OS issue.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I would be amazed if new apps written for WP8 exhibit the stupid behavior of relaunching from scratch when you switch out of them. Some old apps which haven't been updated probably still will, but who's fault is that? :straight:

I don't have a problem with tombstoning. I don't need 6 apps to be running in the background like an Android phone slurping up battery life and needlessly running processes for no reason while I'm not using the app.

 

[devize]

I don't need 6 apps to be running in the background like an Android phone slurping up battery life and needlessly running processes for no reason while I'm not using the app.

You really don't know how Android works then.

 

[fierywater]

I don't have a problem with tombstoning. I don't need 6 apps to be running in the background like an Android phone slurping up battery life and needlessly running processes for no reason while I'm not using the app.

The only time this happens on Android is with poorly coded apps that aren't made to let go of non-essential processes when the user switches away from them. Most of the time, Android's multitasking isn't all that much different from the iPhone's; only the threads that have a good reason to be running in the background keep running.

The biggest difference is that Google allows Android developers to choose what they consider worth keeping in the background, while Apple restricts background threads to a handful of purposes (e.g. VoIP). That's why an IM app on Android can remain open and get messages while they need to rely on push notifications on the iPhone.

Android's design in this regard isn't bad; the fault lies with Google's lack of regulation on the Google Play store allowing apps that do stupid things to stay on. For example, OpenTable's Android app keeps a GPS location lock open even when switching away from it. That's a bad thing that would almost certainly get an app rejected on the iOS App Store.

 

[rockstarzzz]

You really don't know how Android works then.

Android definitely works in that fashion as described. I own a HTC Sensation XL, cousin to my Titan and I am happy with how I don't have task manager non sense on WP. But again, I'm annoyed mostly because of how many times I have to look at that dreaded splash screen and reload everything again.

 

[rockstarzzz]

The only time this happens on Android is with poorly coded apps that aren't made to let go of non-essential processes when the user switches away from them. Most of the time, Android's multitasking isn't all that much different from the iPhone's; only the threads that have a good reason to be running in the background keep running.

The biggest difference is that Google allows Android developers to choose what they consider worth keeping in the background, while Apple restricts background threads to a handful of purposes (e.g. VoIP). That's why an IM app on Android can remain open and get messages while they need to rely on push notifications on the iPhone.

Android's design in this regard isn't bad; the fault lies with Google's lack of regulation on the Google Play store allowing apps that do stupid things to stay on. For example, OpenTable's Android app keeps a GPS location lock open even when switching away from it. That's a bad thing that would almost certainly get an app rejected on the iOS App Store.

That's exactly why WP/iPhone have superior multi-tasking than Android. Yes, it can probably be customized like the home screen, with no bounds, but that makes it super ugly to manage. I hate the task manager. I have to even add widgets on my sensation xl and am sort of unconsciously forced to check to make sure I turn off all the unwanted tasks. That's not efficient really. But it is a good thing for stuff like maps, IM clients etc. sort of apps and games.

 

[koolkid09]

That's exactly why WP/iPhone have superior multi-tasking than Android. Yes, it can probably be customized like the home screen, with no bounds, but that makes it super ugly to manage. I hate the task manager. I have to even add widgets on my sensation xl and am sort of unconsciously forced to check to make sure I turn off all the unwanted tasks. That's not efficient really. But it is a good thing for stuff like maps, IM clients etc. sort of apps and games.

Multitasking in WP doesn't even compare to Android and you know it.

 

[brmiller1976]

Android's "multitasking" is technically superior to WP7, but a battery-guzzling usability nightmare that is the cause of the frequent crashes, freezes and stutter that mark the ICS/JB experience even on high end hardware.

Nobody did it better than Palm.

 

[eric12341]

I think it's more of an app coding issue rather than an OS issue because most of the apps I use don't even display that resuming screen when going back to them in the task switcher. I also think it's unfair to pass judgment on something that none of us have used yet.

 

[brmiller1976]

The only time this happens on Android is with poorly coded apps

In other words, it only happens with 94% of all Android apps.

 

[AngryNil]

Bing loses a lock because there's no background GPS agent in WP7. That has nothing to do with your tombstoning argument, tombstoning is saving the state of an app and unloading it from memory. An app frozen but loaded into memory can't track your location while... frozen. No idea what you are trying to say.

Also, WP8 has a background agent for this. Case closed.

Why are you citing third party apps that fail to take advantage of fast app switching? That is not the fault of Microsoft. What third party apps do I use on a daily basis? Carbon, Note+, Nextgen Reader, Metrotube, WPCentral, Baconit, Timer, Purple Cherry. All resume fine, with the exception of Metrotube, because you can't keep videos that could possibly be 100s of MBs loaded into memory.

@Brmiller, perhaps you forget that webOS had a fundamental problem with pervasive lag throughout the entire experience.

 

[socialcarpet]

You really don't know how Android works then.

I don't need to to know that it's a piece of ****.

 

[brmiller1976]

@Brmiller, perhaps you forget that webOS had a fundamental problem with pervasive lag throughout the entire experience.

No, only with certain devices in certain situations.

A Pre II with 16 or 32 megs of storage and 512 MB of RAM was speedy indeed.

Windows Phone 7 would run slowly too on an old OMAP with only 256 megs of RAM. Look at all the compromises that were made to get WP running on the 610... and it definitely has lag and compatibility problems that 512 meg+ hardware doesn't.