WPCentral and Snapdragon 400.. A Long and Incoherent Ramble.

Yazen

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Really annoys me to see the 'slight performance improvements' being hatted to the CPU on the Snapdragon 400.
It is obvious Microsoft is not making optimizations for the S4 SoC like they are for the 400.

Microsoft is not committed to providing the same level of support across all of their devices. T-Mobile and Verizon not releasing the updates is Microsoft's fault. Does not make sense that the 920, 925, 1020, etc are being made obsolete by inferior and midrange hardware.

Reality: The Snapdragon 400 SoC is going to run marginally cooler and efficient, however, it is mostly a downgrade otherwise.
I have to disagree with the Conclusions made on the 830 vs 920 article.

The only real edge that cannot be implemented on the 920 realistically is the support for SensorCore.
Miracast and other optimizations are very well doable on our 92X devices.

My question for this community is: Should I expect a phone I purchased full retail several months ago to receive 'under the hood' updates similar to their current lineup?

I have been a big fan of Metro UI since the Zune HD, and I have always appreciated Nokia's design. While there are a lot of missing features that should have been implemented, I still have plenty of praise for Microsoft. However, while Microsoft is developing their own devices, they do not provide the proper level of support. Apple's iPhone 4s (2011) receives extensive support that is far superior to the Lumia 925 (2013).

I wish T-Mobile had the 1520 back when I 'sidegraded' from the 920 (more of a downgrade in some ways). I think I am going to wait and see out this generation of Windows Phones (830, etc). I hope Microsoft is more serious about their own products than they are of their acquired ones. (See what I did there :smile:)

I apologize for the ramble.
 

theefman

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Just don't buy the phone if it irks you that much. People who have bought the phone are enjoying it so what's the problem? Goodness, will the whining ever stop on this site?

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amigappc

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I totally agree with the post, I bought a 920 in January because there was a good offer, even if I knew it was then more than one year old, then I had to install portico because they changed the Image Algorithms and they are now not as sharp as they were in portico. I use the 920 mostly to record videos and the difference is big between the black and portico, they are more sharp and detailed in portico.
Now the problem is fixed but only for the new mobiles as Nokia said they would do, something they could do without any problem on the old ones because they were fine in portico.
Another thing that I thought they will add is raw support for the 920 but they only put it on the 1020 and newer mobiles but I think that something they could put without any problem on 920 but then it was too old to get it (now the 830 hasn't got it either even if it could have it without any problem).
The same you can say of many improvements that nokia/microsoft brought for the camera on cyan on the new mobiles but nothing for the old ones (now the 1020 is old) than could be on the old one without any problem.
So it isn't only that nokia/microsoft doesn't care on optimize software for old mobiles (not that old anyway) is they, at purpose, they only add improvements on the new mobiles or only for the more expensive ones even if they could add them without any problem too all of them because they have the same or similar powerful processors.
 

Tellus82

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If you just recently bought a 920 then i see little point in crying over features not being implemented that a new device has, especially since they where never part of the 920 to begin with, i just bought the 830 and i am well aware of it's limitations and features, if they come out with a 1030 that has more bells & whistles then i will not be screaming at MS to implement them in the 830. It is less then realistic to expect any company to do so.

When it comes to performance like in the 920 vs 830 review here it has f*ck all to do with how the SoC performs and more with the internal storage if anything, the global animations and Ui can be run on ver very weak hardware and you wouldnt spot much difference, what does make a big difference is the speed of the internal storage. Now if we look at pure SoC performance it comes down to what workload it's being tasked with, single thread performance will be better on S4 while multithreaded will be better on the 400, that's really it. The gpu performance difference is a bit of a toss up between the two, the 305 sport 6 unified shaders while the 225 has 8, now there is also clockspeed difference and also many other differences, one being the size, 305 is on 28nm and the 225 is on 45nm.

Blaming MS for not optimising the old SoC enough just because a much newer cheaper chip perfoms very similarly is just silly.
 

a5cent

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^ Why do so few get this?

Since very few apps can use more than two cores (note that the S4 has two cores so it's not just about single threaded performance) the S4 has the overall faster SoC for WP apps in the majority of cases. Way to much is being attributed to CPU performance and even more are letting the Basemark II toy (some things can be too simple) confuse them.
 
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Yazen

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I totally agree with the post, I bought a 920 in January because there was a good offer, even if I knew it was then more than one year old, then I had to install portico because they changed the Image Algorithms and they are now not as sharp as they were in portico. I use the 920 mostly to record videos and the difference is big between the black and portico, they are more sharp and detailed in portico.
Now the problem is fixed but only for the new mobiles as Nokia said they would do, something they could do without any problem on the old ones because they were fine in portico.
Another thing that I thought they will add is raw support for the 920 but they only put it on the 1020 and newer mobiles but I think that something they could put without any problem on 920 but then it was too old to get it (now the 830 hasn't got it either even if it could have it without any problem).
The same you can say of many improvements that nokia/microsoft brought for the camera on cyan on the new mobiles but nothing for the old ones (now the 1020 is old) than could be on the old one without any problem.
So it isn't only that nokia/microsoft doesn't care on optimize software for old mobiles (not that old anyway) is they, at purpose, they only add improvements on the new mobiles or only for the more expensive ones even if they could add them without any problem too all of them because they have the same or similar powerful processors.

Same here. Lumia 822, 920, and 925 have fugly photos now. Kind of irritating as my phone should still be receiving mainstream support.
 

Yazen

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The internal storage of the Lumia 920 is superior, and so is the SoC. Any performance advantages on the 830 are not hardware ones.

WP OS is still lagging in multithreaded support, so I have to wonder why basemark reports the superior result.



Why does Daniel Rubino and other authors continue to spatter 'Quad Core'?

1- I need MS to fix the camera for my phone. Why they decided to botch the camera is beyond me, though one could speculate right? ;)

2- Add support for Miracast and or improve the APIs for WiFi direct. I was told by a Nokia developer that they were going to have Miracast for 82x/92x in 'WP Blue'.

3- Offer true mainstream support for 18 months. Microsoft as a hardware and software vendor is failing to provide true mainstream support. OS updates are a core aspect, though they are failing otherwise.
Optimizations, improvements, fixes, and features are just as important.

So far I have got a botched camera and heat issues from their updates.

This is no different from the Windows Mobile days. I ended up switching to a Palm Treo ..
There's no 'Treo' on the market yet, but when there is I'll most certainly switch. Hope its a Windows phone
 

Tellus82

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The internal storage is superior in the 920 you say, right, i guess you have the spec's for it then? I also assume you have the complete set of benches that include random iops at different sizes aslong with sequential read/writes? And this from a benchmark tool that gives the same results +-1-2% between runs and not as much as 40%?

Really, you need to stop with the tin foil hat. And no, implementing new new features that never was a part of the device at any stage are very unlikely to happend, the 920 aint terribly new is it? i mean it was released in 2012, so at the most it will get w10, which aint bad considering it's age. Ask how long Android devices are being updated..... Also i really hope you aren't running the Tech preview
 
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colinkiama

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The internal storage of the Lumia 920 is superior, and so is the SoC. Any performance advantages on the 830 are not hardware ones.

WP OS is still lagging in multithreaded support, so I have to wonder why basemark reports the superior result.



Why does Daniel Rubino and other authors continue to spatter 'Quad Core'?

1- I need MS to fix the camera for my phone. Why they decided to botch the camera is beyond me, though one could speculate right? ;)

2- Add support for Miracast and or improve the APIs for WiFi direct. I was told by a Nokia developer that they were going to have Miracast for 82x/92x in 'WP Blue'.

3- Offer true mainstream support for 18 months. Microsoft as a hardware and software vendor is failing to provide true mainstream support. OS updates are a core aspect, though they are failing otherwise.
Optimizations, improvements, fixes, and features are just as important.

So far I have got a botched camera and heat issues from their updates.

This is no different from the Windows Mobile days. I ended up switching to a Palm Treo ..
There's no 'Treo' on the market yet, but when there is I'll most certainly switch. Hope its a Windows phone

The same reason why single core WP 7 phones didn't get wp8. It would work but wouldn't work well. Even if you did use miracast, the performance wouldn't be acceptable. That's what must of happened during testing.and before you say S3, you have to remember that WP and Android are different so the way miracast works and performs on the two are different. Also, Microsoft doesn't actually make the SoCs so they can't optimise like apple can. Microsoft gave you an option to upgrade from an 8mp camera to a 10mp camera, dual core s4.to a sd400(which performs faster in 8.1) , 32gb storage to possibly 136gb(with micro SD support), non remmovale to remmovale battery. yes you have kept your 920 for two years and updates botched your camera(setting the focus to fixed or a manual focus seemed to help me in Nokia camera) but Microsoft has given 920 and 820 users a possible upgrade path to escape these problems. You are very lucky you didn't end up like an iPhone 4 user. Left with iOS7 which lags like crazy on it and apple doesn't even support the OS officially anymore. And while you are right that there aren't many apps using more than two cores , apps and games still load faster.
 

a5cent

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Benchmarks really are a waste of time and dong prove much in the real world.

That depends on the benchmark though!

Look at how graphics cards are tested. They are tested using the games that people will most likely be looking to buy a new graphics card for! Reviewers will graph "frames per second" as a function of resolution and rendering quality. Those numbers will tell you exactly what to expect. That is very useful, not to mention that it also makes it very clear to the graphics card industry that if they want to look good in reviews, they need to work on those things that will directly improve the consumers experience.

Synthetic benchmarks are harder to understand, and usually require a solid technical background to interpret correctly, but they too can be useful if you want to understand one isolated and specific aspect of hardware performance. However, this requires a very clear definition of what is being tested and how (most often by using a standardized and well understood algorithm). If done right, these too can be very useful.

Basemark II doesn't fit into either of those categories, which is why I consider it a toy that people should stop using.
 
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Its very simple really.... If you have a 2 year old phone then it wont be as good as the latest. I have the latest 1520 and yet.... I expect that in a year or 2 down the line a new phone will come out which superior power and support that the 1520 won't have. Should I moan? Nope.... I accept it and think that if I am still happy with my phone then why upgrade. I have no doubt the pic quality is better on the 1020 but to me... My 1520 takes perfect shots... I was happy with the filming on my old 520. I don't need more ram as my SD card is fine. And I only use it for music. This is a phone which I will be happy to have for another 5 years. Screen is perfect. Can I read messages? YES can I make calls? YES can I take decent pics? YES can I use the net? YES......then to me I don't give a damn what the next phone will have. Yes it may or may not be better then the 1520....if it is...will I moan like a b?tch in prison picking up the soap? Nope..... My phone does all I need to
 

sahib lopez

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That depends on the benchmark though!

Look at how graphics cards are tested. They are tested using the games that people will most likely be looking to buy a new graphics card for! Reviewers will graph "frames per second" as a function of resolution and rendering quality. Those numbers will tell you exactly what to expect. That is very useful, not to mention that it also makes it very clear to the graphics card industry that if they want to look good in reviews, they need to work on those things that will directly improve the consumers experience.

Synthetic benchmarks are harder to understand, and usually require a solid technical background to interpret correctly, but they too can be useful if you want to understand one isolated and specific aspect of hardware performance. However, this requires a very clear definition of what is being tested and how (most often by using a standardized and well understood algorithm). If done right, these too can be very useful.

Basemark II doesn't fit into either of those categories, which is why I consider it a toy that people should stop using.

Well if we are testing computer parts then yeah I'm all for it :p And I agree with what you said .
Though with phones I don't really see the need for them :/


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 

Yazen

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The internal storage is superior in the 920 you say, right, i guess you have the spec's for it then? I also assume you have the complete set of benches that include random iops at different sizes aslong with sequential read/writes? And this from a benchmark tool that gives the same results +-1-2% between runs and not as much as 40%?

Really, you need to stop with the tin foil hat. And no, implementing new new features that never was a part of the device at any stage are very unlikely to happend, the 920 aint terribly new is it? i mean it was released in 2012, so at the most it will get w10, which aint bad considering it's age. Ask how long Android devices are being updated..... Also i really hope you aren't running the Tech preview

I am using a 925 on T-Mobile at the moment. Not sure why you are arguing against a rant .. At least you could try reading before you write condescending replied.

I have had three Lumia ' second gen' devices. All had great camera quality until they received OTA updates.

Is it too much of a bother for Microsoft to fix what they had botched?

Irritating that my Nexus 4 takes better photos.. Even more irritating that I see an awesome photo after I press the shutter button, and it ends up yellow and grainy in the photo roll.

It's not like I tried one phone and gave up. 822 as my work phone(Verizon), 920(att), 925(tmo).

Three different carriers, but I noticed similar quirks, even after cyan on ATT.

Having a smooth, stable, and optimized experience should not be a new feature.

My Lumia 925 is not a year old yet, I feel like I should expect another year for Microsoft to fix the camera and any other firmware improvements.

Put your tinfoil back on and move your unwelcome attitude to reddit please ;)
 

SammyD97

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Another thing that I thought they will add is raw support for the 920 but they only put it on the 1020 and newer mobiles but I think that something they could put without any problem on 920 but then it was too old to get it (now the 830 hasn't got it either even if it could have it without any problem).

I think its more about the megapixel count on that one. Had nothing to do with new/old or processor. It would be more useful to the 1020, 1520, 930.
 

Yazen

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I think its more about the megapixel count on that one. Had nothing to do with new/old or processor. It would be more useful to the 1020, 1520, 930.

I see what you're getting at, but as it stands we could really use dng. The image processing is really bad!

I never felt like raw was a must have feature on the 808. Can see how it is useful though.

Photos looked better in the gallery on the 808 lol. Color balance and noise removal was well tuned for most scenarios.
 

Tellus82

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I am using a 925 on T-Mobile at the moment. Not sure why you are arguing against a rant .. At least you could try reading before you write condescending replied.

I have had three Lumia ' second gen' devices. All had great camera quality until they received OTA updates.

Is it too much of a bother for Microsoft to fix what they had botched?

Irritating that my Nexus 4 takes better photos.. Even more irritating that I see an awesome photo after I press the shutter button, and it ends up yellow and grainy in the photo roll.

It's not like I tried one phone and gave up. 822 as my work phone(Verizon), 920(att), 925(tmo).

Three different carriers, but I noticed similar quirks, even after cyan on ATT.

Having a smooth, stable, and optimized experience should not be a new feature.

My Lumia 925 is not a year old yet, I feel like I should expect another year for Microsoft to fix the camera and any other firmware improvements.

Put your tinfoil back on and move your unwelcome attitude to reddit please ;)

Right, let's make a few things clear shall we? You have a 920 Lumia (or was it a 925, its very hard to make out from your posts...), it was released in 2012, regardless of when you bought it, the same year as Samsung galaxy S3was released, the S3 got Jelly Bean, nothing else so lets not kid ourselfs about how long phones get updated. And when you make **** up people tend to call you on it, that isn't condecending. Go back and read your first post and take in how it sounds, it sounds like someone watched the 920v 830 comparison and developed massive buyers remorse and tried to come here to make yourself feel better.

You came in here at the 830 forums to rant on how MS havent updated the 920 enough because clearly it should be better then the 830, well it should be, in your mind. Yet you dont back any of these claims up with any data what so ever, then you go on to make more claims also not backed up by any data at all. And lastly you talk of how many lumias you have as to validate your claims somehow?!? also from many carriers as if that impacted on how any of the functions in the phone works?!? (same software and hardware combos very rarely differ) What matters is what software versions you are running and what hardware and if you want to you can buy a phone off contract and update it as you please...

Mate if you think my attitude is unwelcome perhaps thats not on my end and more on yours, stop fabricating your feelings into "facts" about a phone and you might feel more welcome when people tell you your wrong.

PS. Here's Another helpfull tip, if you want help with the 920, how about you post in the 920 section of the forum, just a thought.
 
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anon5997296

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Well, I don't care for any new features and I don't care for if 830 is better than 920 or not. All I care about and want is,

1. Fix the soft and yellow photos. Feels like I have 3.2 MP camera. No details at all.
2. Fix the overheating issue and battery drain. I can't really play games when away from the charger because of this.

I don't have any performance issue with 920. I love it's red color more than orange and green of 830 or any newer Lumia. The weight and thickness is not at all a problem for me. And there's no any reason for me to change mg 920 except for above stated two issues, which are truly software dependant and should be fixed no matter what!
If I was getting a new phone at this time, definitely I can say 830 is better. But for replacing my perfectly functioning Lumia 920, no it's not worth the money! Especially when there are no contracts in my country and I have to buy any phone at it's full price. And what is frustrating is, the only issues I have are software related and MS doesn't care to fix them.
 

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