You’ve cheapened the entire experience” Diablo creator bemoans the current state of ARPGs and MMOs

[Windows Central]

In a recent podcast interview, Diablo creator David Brevik shared his unfiltered thoughts on the state of modern ARPGs, critiquing their fast-paced, loot-heavy design and reminiscing about a more methodical era of gameplay.

You’ve cheapened the entire experience” Diablo creator bemoans the current state of ARPGs and MMOs : Read more

 

[fjtorres5591]

He isn't wrong.
Many so called RPGs (of all classes) are so narrative/lean and combat focused they are more arcade games than RPGs.
(Here's looking at you, Veilguard.)
It reflects poorly on the few remaining true RPGs.

 

[Hanserya]

I agree with him. I played D4 early on and was thrilled by how reminiscent the experience was of D2. Then that goofy "season of loot" dropped and I gave it up cold turkey. Haven't even thought about playing again and most likely won't be back for the DLC.

Oh well...

 

[PrydzIsBatman]

As someone who has been playing since Diablo 1. I quite enjoy most of what D4 has to offer. I absolutely despise that long grind. People should not have to be hardcore players to feel rewarded. I have put 7400 hours into D4. More than most of the player base. I have some of the worst luck... I'm also mostly a HC player. But there are people with less than HALF the hours that tend to have more than double what I have. I'm just very unlucky when it comes to drops. I like the fact that if you put in the time, you can craft most of these items. I think you should be able to do that with triple/quadruple GAs too. Or a pity system.. That would be even better honestly.

Saying all that, I can't even play PoE2.. It's way too clunky and slow paced for me. It's like D2, but modernized a little bit... The bag space? Ugh... I like progression. I want to see new and improved. I don't want to be stuck in the past. The past is the past for a reason.

The real solution is just to have 2 versions of the game. D4 and D4 Classic (for the boomers out there). All the old heads who want to grind for years can play with each other. Then everyone who likes new games can play the revamped version. You'd barely have to touch the classic one and the new one could be finer turned for today's gaming.

 

[Hanserya]

As someone who has been playing since Diablo 1. I quite enjoy most of what D4 has to offer. I absolutely despise that long grind. People should not have to be hardcore players to feel rewarded. I have put 7400 hours into D4. More than most of the player base. I have some of the worst luck... I'm also mostly a HC player. But there are people with less than HALF the hours that tend to have more than double what I have. I'm just very unlucky when it comes to drops. I like the fact that if you put in the time, you can craft most of these items. I think you should be able to do that with triple/quadruple GAs too. Or a pity system.. That would be even better honestly.

Saying all that, I can't even play PoE2.. It's way too clunky and slow paced for me. It's like D2, but modernized a little bit... The bag space? Ugh... I like progression. I want to see new and improved. I don't want to be stuck in the past. The past is the past for a reason.

The real solution is just to have 2 versions of the game. D4 and D4 Classic (for the boomers out there). All the old heads who want to grind for years can play with each other. Then everyone who likes new games can play the revamped version. You'd barely have to touch the classic one and the new one could be finer turned for today's gaming.

Games that offer casual progression without the grind are no more "modern" than open world or sandbox games are. They've been a part of the zeitgeist ever since gaming became popular in the 80's.

Ever hear of Pac Man, Space Invaders, or Tetris? How about Super Mario Bros? Or Sonic? Or Kirby? Gauntlet, anyone?

I'll never understand this desire to revise history in some weird attempt to frame others as nostalgic old people.

 

[Nooneofimportance]

Games that offer casual progression without the grind are no more "modern" than open world or sandbox games are. They've been a part of the zeitgeist ever since gaming became popular in the 80's.

Ever hear of Pac Man, Space Invaders, or Tetris? How about Super Mario Bros? Or Sonic? Or Kirby? Gauntlet, anyone?

I'll never understand this desire to revise history in some weird attempt to frame others as nostalgic old people.

Tell me you don't know what you are talking about without telling me you don't know what you are talking about !

 

[Hanserya]

Tell me you don't know what you are talking about without telling me you don't know what you are talking about !

Well, it doesn't seem like you really understand what we're talking about considering that the only response that you can muster is something that you learned from the "cool kids" over on Reddit.

 

[PrydzIsBatman]

Games that offer casual progression without the grind are no more "modern" than open world or sandbox games are. They've been a part of the zeitgeist ever since gaming became popular in the 80's.

Ever hear of Pac Man, Space Invaders, or Tetris? How about Super Mario Bros? Or Sonic? Or Kirby? Gauntlet, anyone?

I'll never understand this desire to revise history in some weird attempt to frame others as nostalgic old people.

You can't continue to have the same game continue to come out over and over... You need to improve and progress. No one wants to see or play the same thing over and over, especially now. I had a Atari. So you can keep the name dropping out of the debate.

No one said anything about not having a grind. It's the 'take 3 years to get the item' approach that will not work in modern day gaming. Not many people have the attention span to continue playing the same game for that long. They need to be rewarded quicker than the days of old. I'm very grateful for the progression. Hell, I love new game+ games. Why? Because they add to the original play through. Something like Ratchet & Clank is a perfect example of a game with an amazing 2nd play through on new game+.

Revising history and learning/progressing from the past are 2 different things. What worked back then might not work today. New generations want new stuff.

 

[Hanserya]

You can't continue to have the same game continue to come out over and over... You need to improve and progress. No one wants to see or play the same thing over and over, especially now. I had a Atari. So you can keep the name dropping out of the debate.

No one said anything about not having a grind. It's the 'take 3 years to get the item' approach that will not work in modern day gaming. Not many people have the attention span to continue playing the same game for that long. They need to be rewarded quicker than the days of old. I'm very grateful for the progression. Hell, I love new game+ games. Why? Because they add to the original play through. Something like Ratchet & Clank is a perfect example of a game with an amazing 2nd play through on new game+.

Revising history and learning/progressing from the past are 2 different things. What worked back then might not work today. New generations want new stuff.

It isn't a modern concept at all. Gauntlet was a D&D style game. You crawled dungeons, fought bosses, leveled your character, and improved them with new equipment found during the run. It was released in 1985. You couldn't even save your progress in the "ye olden times" of gaming. How could you possibly grind for years when you didn't even have a save point?!?

For that matter, the term "grinding" wasn't even a common term in the gaming lexicon until MMORPGs became popular in the late 90s to early 2000s. Plenty of games had some mechanics that you could call grinding sprinkled in here and there, but it wasn't a part of the core gameplay loop until games like EverQuest and Diablo came onto the scene.

This entire argument would be like a bunch of kids walking around in JNCOs or bell bottoms and calling them modern fashion trends.

Instant gratification and quick progression have literally always been a part of the equation. There's absolutely nothing modern about it. The most popular games have always been the ones that were the most accessible to casual players because they have a bigger audience. It's that simple.