You cannot be serious.....Really Tim Cook?

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dkediger

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And a comment on cumulative sales charts -
If you are increasing sales, either through new customers or replacement units, the chart will have a geometric curve. Even if there would be a no- sales period on the x-axis segment, a cumulative chart only goes flat - it never takes a downslope.

This link was included in montsa007's post above, but it really illustrates the difference in a cumulative vs point to point graph:
What Was Tim Cook Trying to Prove With This Meaningless Chart?

From that article, this pic illustrates the data behind the cumulative graph:

l7Z82k9.png
 

montsa007

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Just some more garnishing on the dish,

iPhone 5c Channel Fill Helped Apple To Report Nine Million Units Sold - Forbes

The Company (Apple) recognizes revenue when persuasive evidence of an arrangement exists, delivery has occurred, the sales price is fixed or determinable, and collection is probable. Product is considered delivered to the customer once it has been shipped and title and risk of loss have been transferred. For most of the Company’s product sales, these criteria are met at the time the product is shipped. For online sales to individuals, for some sales to education customers in the U.S., and for certain other sales, the Company defers revenue until the customer receives the product because the Company retains a portion of the risk of loss on these sales during transit.

It seems like a small thing, but it is important to keep in mind when evaluating the mobile market, especially as it matures and multiple sales channels are employed. In order to present the clearest possible picture of how demand for Apple’s products stands in relation to its competitors, we will be referring to Apple’s announced numbers as “shipped” from now on

Please read Apples latest 10-k filing, specifically end of page 26 last para, its on their own website
Apple Inc. - Financial History

What Apple really means when it says it has “sold” a product — Tech News and Analysis
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44435d1380292812t-l7z82k9.png

The data still shows an impressive result for Apple: about 400 million iPhones sold in total since the product line’s introduction. But the whole picture is far less positive. As we all know, iPhone sales have declined over the last three quarters and, if the slight drop in the slope at the tip of the chart is reflective of actual sales, Apple will again reveal another decline during its fourth fiscal quarter report at the end of October.

Another issue with the chart is that it hides important realities about Apple’s customer base and the number of iPhones still in use. There’s no question that Apple CEO Tim Cook wanted to present an impression that the company’s iPhone is “on the rise,” both in terms of hardware sales and customers. While the company is adding likely millions of new customers every month, the chart hides the fact that many of those cumulative iPhone sales went to existing customers who either upgraded to a new model or replaced an existing model due to loss or damage.

Related to upgrades and replacements, the chart also hides the fact that many millions of units are no longer in service, having been sent to landfills or otherwise destroyed.


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I hope it clears some fog off the road.
 
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thomas wojcik

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Numbers can be made to reflect many different things. However a couple things that are clear today are Apple isn't doing too bad, Microsoft\Nokia need to get their act together, and the people in this forum are using the 3rd best phone platform. But the majority of us don't care, we just like our windows phones. Who is Tim Cook?
 

montsa007

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Numbers can be made to reflect many different things. However a couple things that are clear today are Apple isn't doing too bad, Microsoft\Nokia need to get their act together, and the people in this forum are using the 3rd best phone platform. But the majority of us don't care, we just like our windows phones. Who is Tim Cook?

A Crook.
 

tgp

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Numbers can be made to reflect many different things. However a couple things that are clear today are Apple isn't doing too bad, Microsoft\Nokia need to get their act together, and the people in this forum are using the 3rd best phone platform. But the majority of us don't care, we just like our windows phones. Who is Tim Cook?

Agreed, Apple isn't doing too bad. 8.7 million WPs were sold in Q2 2013, approximately the number of iPhones sold, or at least shipped, last weekend, give or take.
 

Manu Tyagi

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What is the junk market?

Yes that's true. Maybe Apple will indeed go the way of Nokia. Do you think the current sales numbers suggest this?

Is that important?

Well, WP does seem to be growing faster than Apple, but surely Android is eating iOS market share much more quickly?

For junk market ask the man(Tim Cook) who said it..

Even Nokia's Sales figure never showed it was going down..

and yes it is IMPORTANT...

Android grew on the market share of Symbian not of iOS..and still is eating that..rate of increase from 46 to 47 (Android) is slow compared to increase from 1 to 4(WP)
 

tgp

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Android grew on the market share of Symbian not of iOS..and still is eating that..rate of increase from 46 to 47 (Android) is slow compared to increase from 1 to 4(WP)

The reason that WP's growth looks so massive is because of its relatively tiny numbers. It makes the percentage impressive. But let's look at sheer numbers: from Q2 2012 to Q2 2013, Android's sales went up from around 100 million to 180 million. WP's sales rose from 5 million to 8.7 million. Android's growth YoY was almost 10x WP's total sales in Q2 2013. Staggering percentage growth for WP, but the real numbers are much less impressive.

And to be fair, Android's YoY growth was 73%, compared to WP's 77%. Not much difference. I'm sure Microsoft would love to trade! :wink:
 

montsa007

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I wonder now if Tim Cooks stopped making payments and monitoring the thread as tables have turned and the cat is out of the bag :/
 

WinFan1

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Check out the market dude: iPhones 5s and 5c sell 9m in record weekend as Apple shrugs off doubters | Technology | The Guardian
I'm not here to defend Apple, but those numbers are good.



Please provide evidence that Apple say they are the first to do phones in different colours.
And I'm sick of reading about the iPhone 5S and 5C - they certain are generating a lot of hype.



What is the junk market?



Yes that's true. Maybe Apple will indeed go the way of Nokia. Do you think the current sales numbers suggest this?



Is that important?



Well, WP does seem to be growing faster than Apple, but surely Android is eating iOS market share much more quickly?
wouldn't you at least agree that those numbers are largely repeat buyers?
 

WinFan1

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Personally I feel that it is dishonest that apple would sell what is essentially an iPhone 5 in a different housing to unsuspecting and uninformed consumers to make a new buck.
 

ikissfutebol

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At first I read your username as 'annoy_mouse', nvm here's the sales chart, as opposed to the cumulative sales chart.

The innovation they do, is another big story.

http://d35lb3dl296zwu.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/image/13885/LB_7986.jpg

@anon_mouse, they did give support right here. The cumulative chart has an inflection point (actually a couple) meaning that they are decreasing the rate of growth. This has been going on since about 2012.

If you look, the points where the graph is making more of a cup in appearance shows that they are increasing at increasing rate. When it is like the left side of an upside cup, it means they are selling phones at a slower rate than the whole. This actually corresponds rather well to the stock price trends, too. I realize most journalists never took calculus, but it is actually a sign of slowing growth. Of course, Apple uses fancy charts and numbers to wow English majors.
 

falconeight

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Why are we playing the ****** game. This OS and site deserves better. Apple right now is the industry leader. Saying otherwise is like walking around with your arse hanging out of your overalls. Its ok to love WP8, nokia, and microsoft but come one guys this thread is stupid.
 

irvin792

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Why are we playing the ****** game. This OS and site deserves better. Apple right now is the industry leader. Saying otherwise is like walking around with your arse hanging out of your overalls. Its ok to love WP8, nokia, and microsoft but come one guys this thread is stupid.

apple sucks, but that's just my opinion and only reason I posted it right now was to be an arse hanging out of overalls :p
 

montsa007

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@anon_mouse, they did give support right here. The cumulative chart has an inflection point (actually a couple) meaning that they are decreasing the rate of growth. This has been going on since about 2012.

If you look, the points where the graph is making more of a cup in appearance shows that they are increasing at increasing rate. When it is like the left side of an upside cup, it means they are selling phones at a slower rate than the whole. This actually corresponds rather well to the stock price trends, too. I realize most journalists never took calculus, but it is actually a sign of slowing growth. Of course, Apple uses fancy charts and numbers to wow English majors.

The most funny part is, he (anony_mouse) was demanding loads of answers, and when answers started to appear in bulk, he's nowhere to be seen ;).
Imagine someone responding to your answers with fresh questions in like 5 minutes after you post something, and when facts start coming up, there are no questions.
 

etad putta

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So much effort being put into hating apple, really who cares one way or another? It seems some people must have been made to look foolish by an apple user sometime in their life. It's ok. Put the past behind everyone and just enjoy your device. Hey we all could go over to apple someday, who knows?
 
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