12-15-2014 10:07 PM
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  1. maverick786us's Avatar
    I had my Nexus 5 die on me a few weeks ago and I've been looking to make the switch over to Windows but their lack of new high end devices is holding me back. I was really hoping the McLaren would become a reality but that is dead and the 930 isn't all that impressive for a flagship. Even though 6" phones aren't really my thing I'm hoping the 1525 comes out next month.

    If Microsoft wants to get people excited about their phones, especially the kind of people that can afford to spend money on apps which would attract developers, then they need to be targeting the high end range more aggressively. Sure low and mid range phones might get people on your OS but they don't spend much on apps, if you want to compete with Android and Apple, they need to build up their app store.

    With winter coming, and a supposedly bitter cold one at that, McLaren's touch free capability would have been a big marketing opportunity. An ad with 2 people standing next to each other, the Windows phone user navigating the OS with their gloves on while the other person has to take off their gloves to check their phone and then warm their hands back up when they are done.
    I agree. I know that MS / Nokia has gone through a transition phase, and in order to survive in market, they are running a cautious approach by launch low/mid end devices, so those devices are sold in maximum quantity.

    But in order to get customer's attention, you need to focus on high end devices. 920 laid the initial foundation for Nokia, which helped them in having good sales of their low end 520 device. If they wouldn't have launched 920 that time, no one would have come to know about 520.

    Similarly no one would have bought Samsung smartphones, if they wouldn't have got customer's attention by Galaxy S and note series smartphones. I am damm sure, 630 and 530 wouldn't be successfully sold as 520 did.
    Laura Knotek and IamJonso like this.
    10-10-2014 04:48 AM
  2. LumiaIcon's Avatar
    If you target low end, you get the low end, and you become low end... Even if your not. It may be financially prudent, however, Apple proves that targeting the high end makes you high end... Even when your not.
    undisputed n00b likes this.
    10-13-2014 01:46 AM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The iPhone is not the best analogy for this thread. Think about what was around in 2007 when the 2G was launched. Apple was a radical departure from the status quo and immediately cemented its place in the marketplace. All they've had to do is update rather than innovate. Kudos to them, they didn't have to work as hard as the rest of the industry. I don't care for their mobile products but I tip my hat to them for what they accomplished with smoke and mirrors.
    mpl175 likes this.
    10-13-2014 09:40 AM
  4. Andrea988's Avatar
    Sorry OP, but I think your comments are nuts. The 930 is in my opinion a better phone than the iPhone 6 so how high end do you want it? What does the iPhone 6 have that the 930 doesn't? I can name a good few features that the 930 has that the Apple phone doesn't have, and you can buy two for the same money.

    Besides, it's not as if any other manufacturers produce more than one flagship phone a year and even the newly introduced 735 has the same screen resolution and size as the iPhone 6 and make a terrific alternative at a third of the price for those who aren't daft enough to pay 600+ for a mobile phone. But as many people have said, there are many more buyers for low end phones than there are for flagship phones and I think it's a very sensible policy to target the masses, which is the only thing that is going to make them more popular in the long run.

    I think, as others have said, MS will now wait for Windows 10, and feature phones will be Nokia branded while Lumia phones will be Microsoft branded, but there might be one coming out soon according to Cnet:

    ""We are looking forward to unveiling a Microsoft Lumia device soon", says Microsoft's Senior Vice President of Marketing for Phones, Tuula Rytil, in a blog post on the Nokia / Microsoft website"
    10-24-2014 11:15 AM
  5. desitunez's Avatar
    Let them get over with windows (phone) 10 and you'll see the high ends, hopefully we get the rumored mc laren by next year
    Didnt we said that for Mango , Tango , appolo , Wp8 , WP8.1 ( next version will change everything ) lol
    10-24-2014 05:29 PM
  6. maverick786us's Avatar

    I think, as others have said, MS will now wait for Windows 10, and feature phones will be Nokia branded while Lumia phones will be Microsoft branded, but there might be one coming out soon according to Cnet:

    ""We are looking forward to unveiling a Microsoft Lumia device soon", says Microsoft's Senior Vice President of Marketing for Phones, Tuula Rytil, in a blog post on the Nokia / Microsoft website"
    Not sure if it is a high end device or some medium/low end device
    10-24-2014 09:58 PM
  7. tgp's Avatar
    Didnt we said that for Mango , Tango , appolo , Wp8 , WP8.1 ( next version will change everything ) lol
    Yup. That's why I now sit back and wait for WP to actually take off. When it becomes a reality is when I'll get excited!
    10-24-2014 10:13 PM
  8. T Moore's Avatar
    They said a long time ago they were targeting first smartphone users.
    10-24-2014 10:20 PM
  9. iamtim's Avatar
    I didn't read all the posts in this thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

    The only people who want high-end Windows Phones are already Windows Phone users. There's no growth there; the only growth available to Microsoft is in the mid/low-end range.
    10-24-2014 10:28 PM
  10. Andrea988's Avatar
    I didn't read all the posts in this thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned:

    The only people who want high-end Windows Phones are already Windows Phone users. There's no growth there; the only growth available to Microsoft is in the mid/low-end range.
    How do you know? My L930 is my first Windows phone but I'm pretty sure it won't be my last. But there are bound to be more and more people over time who buy their first WP and decide it's exactly what they have been looking for, as I did.

    In fact a friend of mine is also considering buying a 930 and he's had just about every top-end android phone you can name. A lot of people are becoming disillusioned with android's constant updates and lack of support for older models, and Lollipop hasn't been perceived well by a few people I know who have seen the video.
    10-26-2014 07:44 AM
  11. iamtim's Avatar
    How do you know?
    How do I know? Look around at the market, it's not rocket science. In the US, the high-end market is completely dominated by iOS and Android devices. Windows Phone does not offer anyone happily entrenched in iOS or Android a reason to switch. Sure, you might get a handful of converts here and there - the 3.something% Windows Phone market share shows that - but there's no way that Windows Phone is going to get iOS or Android level market share in the US.

    Outside of the US - especially in the emerging markets... India, China, etc. - devices aren't carrier subsidized. Users there don't tend to buy high-end devices because of the up-front investment. Again, look around at the market, that's a known thing.

    Microsoft's only hope is to tackle the low- and mid-range market and own it.
    fdruid likes this.
    10-26-2014 12:54 PM
  12. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    How do I know? Look around at the market, it's not rocket science. In the US, the high-end market is completely dominated by iOS and Android devices. Windows Phone does not offer anyone happily entrenched in iOS or Android a reason to switch. Sure, you might get a handful of converts here and there - the 3.something% Windows Phone market share shows that - but there's no way that Windows Phone is going to get iOS or Android level market share in the US.

    Outside of the US - especially in the emerging markets... India, China, etc. - devices aren't carrier subsidized. Users there don't tend to buy high-end devices because of the up-front investment. Again, look around at the market, that's a known thing.

    Microsoft's only hope is to tackle the low- and mid-range market and own it.
    What about the possibility of getting former BlackBerry users in the US? I never owned Androids or iPhones, but I had high-end BlackBerry devices prior to Windows Phones.
    10-26-2014 12:58 PM
  13. The Bill Payer's Avatar
    Be more concerned about MS supporting devices that carriers like Verizon won't. As an Icon user and long time Verizon wireless customer I'm disgusted with support for a flagship device like the Icon is getting.

    If Microsoft /Nokia cannot find a away around releasing newer firmware updates for their phone without the need of the carrier then they might want to think about getting out of the phone business.

    The fact that my less than a year old Icon is now an un-upgradable brick is a slap in the face to me as a consumer and makes me wonder if I should get a WP ever again.
    10-26-2014 01:00 PM
  14. fdruid's Avatar
    I disagree. You're missing the point. Not everyone can apply Apple's strategy and make it work. Nokia is selling a LOT of low end phones and it's only wise for them to multiply the options in the lower end of the spectrum. And some of those are pretty solid and do offer a lot of bang for the buck.
    Android thrives thanks to the low-mid end phones that have saturated the market, not because of the expensive flagships. Not everyone buys a flagship phone. And in terms of performance, a low-end WP works a lot better than a low-end Android phone.

    All of this is pretty basic. Do know that more flagship-quality Lumias ar forthcoming.
    10-26-2014 01:06 PM
  15. iamtim's Avatar
    What about the possibility of getting former BlackBerry users in the US?
    With no offense intended to you, Laura, former BlackBerry users have been marginalized. They either stuck with BlackBerry and titter with glee over the Passport, or they've already landed on iOS, Android, or Windows Phone. There might be a few users out there still looking for a home, but not enough to make a significant change in market share for any manufacturer.
    Laura Knotek and a5cent like this.
    10-26-2014 01:19 PM
  16. salmanahmad's Avatar
    The reason why Microsoft is focusing more on the low end and mid range side of phones is because that's the only place where Windows Phone currently has a massive chance of success.

    In all honesty, I've come across a lot of Windows Phone users on the internet and in real life that would only use a low end Windows Phone (because of how we'll it runs) but if they had enough money to go to a flagship, they would have gone for Android or iPhone, that's just the way it is. Barely anyone is willing to dish out a huge sum of money for Windows Phone.

    And this is also why the 520 was successful and the most popular Windows Phone to date, Microsoft learned from this and have targeted their efforts on this the low end side because of the success of the 520(and have further strengthened their efforts because of competition from Android One and Motorola).

    Unless the 1020 or 930 magically started selling like hotcakes anytime soon, Microsoft won't have a lot of incentive to make a new high end Windows Phone anytime soon.

    But Microsoft has promised a "Microsoft Lumia" smartphone pretty soon, let's see how that will turn out.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-26-2014 01:38 PM
  17. cba191's Avatar
    Manufacturers do it all the time. Ford GT. Acura NSX. Nissan GT-R. Mercedes SLR. BMW i8. The list goes on and on. Why do they do this? They do it to show what they can do. Do they make a profit on these? Generally, no. But the technology finds its way to future, lower priced products. What is much more valuable is the perception the general public has. The "WOW! They can do this? Maybe they're not boring. Or slow. Or limited. Let's check em out. " That is exactly what Windows needs!
    10-26-2014 01:50 PM
  18. Thunder19's Avatar
    I don't think MS is insane for targeting the low end marketing. Zero high end devices is what is insane. I know a lot of people mention the 930, but it's not available in the US so it doesn't count. What I think is absolutely crazy is Microsoft doesn't know how to communicate with the consumer market.

    The 920 is 2 years old. Where is the replacement? Is there one even coming? What will it be? And when? The screen on my is cracked, so I'm wondering if I should just replace the screen (most likely), get the M8 Windows, or wait. Myself and others in my position are in the dark. I can't stand Android and there is absolutely no way I'd go to Apple.
    maverick786us likes this.
    10-27-2014 09:39 AM
  19. Harry Wild's Avatar
    For an OS to excel, a company always needs a low end phone, hence Android is very popular. Nokia is doing the right thing by targeting low end devices & its working for them, people are buying low end devices. & who told you that 5C was a failure? It was a huge success & you call it a low/mid ranged phone? Its a high end phone for sure. Here in India it was launched at ₹38k($625). You call that cheap? I know that Nokia did a wrong thing by launching 930 in India too late, but that was due to the reason that 930 had overheating issues. Even though iPhones 5C/5S sold in huge numbers still apple is losing their market share because apple would never consider a low end phone. I also know that in other countries price of a phone doesn't matter, but in the upcoming markets, prices of a phone matter a lot.
    From a business standpoint; Apple is king of the smartphones. It has around 50% profit margin and sell only high end smartphones pretty much! It has record profit this quarter and has a backlog of over 25 million iphones just in China alone! In the U.S.; there are no iPhone 6s to be found in quantities. Everything is to be shipped. You just cannot ask for a better demand scenario. Ebay selling the 6s at a premium! They still have a lot of countries to release the iphone 6 to for sales! In other words; Apple is clean up on the high end side of the smartphone industry where all the profit is!
    maverick786us likes this.
    10-28-2014 09:07 PM
  20. UncleGrandpa's Avatar
    Most buy low end phones for kids or to have a substitute until their dream flagship comes along. With WP, the dream flagship never happens as compared to Android or IOS. That's a huge difference and frankly I'm headed back to Android for just that reason....for the new Motorola Turbo.
    10-29-2014 05:05 AM
  21. colinkiama's Avatar
    Most buy low end phones for kids or to have a substitute until their dream flagship comes along. With WP, the dream flagship never happens as compared to Android or IOS. That's a huge difference and frankly I'm headed back to Android for just that reason....for the new Motorola Turbo.
    The dream flagship is the icon/930 but not many people even buy them. The 520 sells more than any other windows phone out there. Statistically Microsoft are doing the right thing.
    10-31-2014 10:47 AM
  22. ivdza's Avatar
    Do you use your mobile phones to travel to space? I mean..flagship. 100 mpx camera 16 gb ram,1TB etc..something like that? All humankind become slaves to technology. Phone is for call,sms and ocassionally internet.! I have Lumia 520,yesterday i was playing with LG G3,yes,it is awesome of course but its not PHONE anymore. Its spaceship that you can put in a pocket!
    techiez and Petephone like this.
    10-31-2014 10:54 AM
  23. JamesDax's Avatar
    No.
    10-31-2014 11:02 AM
  24. techiez's Avatar
    From a business standpoint; Apple is king of the smartphones. It has around 50% profit margin and sell only high end smartphones pretty much! It has record profit this quarter and has a backlog of over 25 million iphones just in China alone! In the U.S.; there are no iPhone 6s to be found in quantities. Everything is to be shipped. You just cannot ask for a better demand scenario. Ebay selling the 6s at a premium! They still have a lot of countries to release the iphone 6 to for sales! In other words; Apple is clean up on the high end side of the smartphone industry where all the profit is!
    There's no room in the high end space, Apple has it conquered, MS is try to gain a foothold where there is still breathing space.
    10-31-2014 11:15 AM
  25. Paul215821's Avatar
    The majority of users doesn't need a flagship, mid-level or even budget phones will do just fine for them. Not just in emerging markets, in developed markets, too.
    The high-end market is saturated, there's no need to bring out flagship after flagship. Developing a phone is very expensive, and you need to move a lot of units to make a profit. If you bring out a new flagship every 3 months just because some other manufacturer brings a new flagship out, you'll just end up haemorrhaging money. And there is a flagship; the 930 (or Icon for those in the US). It might not have the very latest specs, but it can still hold its own against the newest generation Android phones. Focus less on specs, and more on actual performance. (And yes, I know a flagship phone shouldn't be lacking features from lesser-spec'ed phones, like Glance, but I can look past that.)
    Keep in mind that the majority of users here, or any tech forum, are more feature-minded than the average consumer, so there is a bias in reactions.
    ivdza likes this.
    10-31-2014 11:32 AM
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