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10-11-2014 10:32 AM
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  1. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    ... The problem with speed that I have is primarily with all Windows 8 applications and the UI in general. Most of my apps run just as well, primarily heavy gaming titles like FarCry 3 or Batman Arkham City but the UI is so god damn slow, even the Skype app takes ages to refresh, and many other Metro apps.

    ... Again, my apps run the same with maybe a few performance bumps that are barely noticeable, but as far as the whole "Metro" apps go, they are quite slow, plus the Windows Store takes ages to load so I generally stay from it, and I can often see stuttering when moving between my live tiles. I am willing to make a whole video on this.
    I'm sorry, but this argument makes absolutely zero sense. People are saying that Windows 8 performs better than Windows 7 (which it does). You are arguing with them and basically saying that in your experience Windows 8 has roughly the same performance as Windows 7 for desktop programs, but that Windows 8 is slower than Windows 7 for Metro apps.

    How can Windows 8 be slower at Metro apps? Windows 7 doesn't even run Metro apps. Even if it takes a month for Windows 8 to load or refresh a Metro app that will still be much faster than NEVER on Windows 7.

    Why are you comparing the Metro version of software on Windows 8 to the desktop version on Windows 7? Apples and oranges. Use the desktop version of the software on Windows 8. You know you can do that right?
    10-04-2014 11:16 AM
  2. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but this argument makes absolutely zero sense. People are saying that Windows 8 performs better than Windows 7 (which it does). You are arguing with them and basically saying that in your experience Windows 8 has roughly the same performance as Windows 7 for desktop programs, but that Windows 8 is slower than Windows 7 for Metro apps.

    How can Windows 8 be slower at Metro apps? Windows 7 doesn't even run Metro apps. Even if it takes a month for Windows 8 to load or refresh a Metro app that will still be much faster than NEVER on Windows 7.

    Why are you comparing the Metro version of software on Windows 8 to the desktop version on Windows 7? Apples and oranges. Use the desktop version of the software on Windows 8. You know you can do that right?
    A lot of people seem to wonder why version 3 of a piece of software that has been out for roughly 2 years is slower than roughly 7 year old software that is on version 6. Add in that the two year old one is on a new RunTime. I don't think they know how software works.
    10-04-2014 12:01 PM
  3. rodan01's Avatar
    However, when I was saying "Modern UI development won't be replacing desktop development", what I really mean is WinRT won't be replacing desktop program development any time soon. I feel that way because WinRT is really just a limited (by design) subset off the existing frameworks and APIs used in desktop development. It's based on things like .Net, XAML, DirectX etc. just like desktop runtimes, but it's more locked down and with a subset of features in order to keep it light and more secure. If MS adds all of the desktop level functionality back in to WinRT they will have recreated/duplicated their existing desktop development frameworks and they will no longer have a runtime appropriate for low power devices. WinRT might be new, but the technology isn't any more advanced than the current MS desktop frameworks. They share the same core frameworks. There is no reason for one to replace the other. I'm sure they will continue to share new features (as appropriate) and design elements as time goes on. It's really not much different than "Windows 10" which is actually a family of OSes optimized for different requirements.
    What percentage of the desktops apps used in the whole world are limited by WinRT? Probably a really small set, 0.5%-1%?
    For most of the apps that people use in consumer and the enterprise market, WinRT is enough. WinRT also adds security, more control of resource consumption, isolation to avoid performance degradation of the OS, better APIs.
    Obviously Microsoft has to add UI components optimized for mouse and keyboard.

    Microsoft could add APIs for apps that require access to non-secure functionality of the OS, and create profiles for the distribution of those apps. For example, for public distribution through the public store they only allow a subset of the APIs, in private app stores for enterprise customers they could relax security and provide more APIs. Profiles are being used in .NET since many years ago, for example, client profile, Silverlight.

    Of course you want a consistent API for the Windows platform. That's the point of Universal Apps, the ability to develop with the same set of APIs to maximize the productivity, reuse most of the code and adapt the UI for each form factor.
    Last edited by rodan01; 10-04-2014 at 02:46 PM.
    10-04-2014 02:15 PM
  4. rodan01's Avatar
    Rodan, Modern apps are not "wrapped" into Windows. There is an article by Daniel Rubino in this same website (Which i have linked to before) which explains how to get back the "OLD 8.1" behaviour with both interfaces. So unless i am misunderstanding you, you are complaining about something that the OS already has. Microsoft (for what i humbly see and without any pretense to be a genius of course) does not have removed modern UI. It has made it SELECTABLE. Do you want OLD 8.1 style? good you can have it (Through navigation settings menu options). Do you want the new cleaner old style Win7 desktop? You can have it, too.
    Joe Belfiore explained also that in real life (consumer wise) despite the UI still being selectable, the OS will determine automatically whether the device has a keyboard or not. If it has a keyboard...it'll boot with Desktop UI, if a keyboard is not detected, it'll boot in Modern UI mode. Even so (It is my understanding) you can change it.
    My personal take: i'd base the boot mode also on display size with devices with keyboard up to 11" booting in Modern UI mode, especially with very high resolution displays. I have used a couple of Lenovo yoga pro 2 and the fonts are so small that you get blind and any setting you change makes it blurred. Apart from that (which is a Windows issue that Apple products don't have due to a smarter scaling strategy), i'd keep the modern UI on those devices (and on WP too for that matters) because they are easy to use in that way.
    I'm writing this from the Windoze 10 preview with the start screen activated. Although, Apps are windowed, the screen is full of chrome, app switching at the left isn't there, neither charms. So, no, there is no choice. Microsoft is forcing me to use Windows 7.

    You can make full screen a particular app with an horrible and unintuitive menu they added in the title bar of each window. But this is for a particular app and It come back to windowed mode when you switch from other app. So, it's similar or worst to the F11 full screen option of IE in Windows 7.
    Last edited by rodan01; 10-04-2014 at 02:47 PM.
    10-04-2014 02:28 PM
  5. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I'm writing this from the Windoze 10 preview with the start screen activated. Although, Apps are windowed, the screen is full of chrome, app switching at the left isn't there, neither charms. So, no, there is no choice. Microsoft is forcing me to use Windows 7.

    You can make full screen a particular app with an horrible and unintuitive menu they added in the title bar of each window. But this is for a particular app and It come back to windowed mode when you switch from other app. So, it's similar or worst to the F11 full screen option of IE in Windows 7.
    The line "there are no charms, so I'm forced to use Windows 7" has to be a typo. Also, the task switching (not sure of the keyboard shortcut) shows Store Apps and desktop apps. I don't know why I bother, though, because your signature is the real eye opener. I suppose it shouldn't have even taken that with such wonderful word use as Windoze.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-04-2014 03:03 PM
  6. spaulagain's Avatar
    The ignorance in this thread is simply astounding.

    To the OP, do us all a favor, climb back into your box and don't come back out until MS releases the final version of W10. It's clear you have no concept of previews and didn't listen to a thing Microsoft said at the presentation.
    10-04-2014 03:13 PM
  7. smoledman's Avatar
    The reasons Windows 8 failed with consumers(I don't count Stardock extensions as relevant):

    * eliminating the Start Menu and forcing the Start Screen experience on desktop users
    * full-screen Modern apps on a desktop
    * Charms bar appearing when moving the mouse
    * the multi-tasking thumbnails appearing when moving the mouse
    * hitting the Start button switching out from a desktop to the Start Screen breaking peoples' workflow

    Windows 8.1 addressed part of the first item(boot to desktop option) but none of the others.

    Windows 10 appears that it will address all of these which is why it has a chance to succeed with consumers.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-04-2014 03:46 PM
  8. Iain_S's Avatar
    I would say most of the folk on here don't know what they are talking about. This is a technical preview for people to get a very early look at the new platform. It will change vastly between now and the consumer preview. You wont see any of this probably until the build 2015. Once it gets to the consumer preview builds you will probably see the new UI, the new IE, how it interacts on different devices and many others things.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-04-2014 05:48 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Can't believe this thread is still going. Unless the OP's native language is not English, I don't know what part of "preview" was the most difficult to understand.


    Sent from a Samsung Ativ S Neo via Tapatalk
    Karthik Naik and Niavlys77 like this.
    10-04-2014 09:18 PM
  10. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    I'm writing this from the Windoze 10 preview with the start screen activated. Although, Apps are windowed, the screen is full of chrome, app switching at the left isn't there, neither charms. So, no, there is no choice. Microsoft is forcing me to use Windows 7.

    You can make full screen a particular app with an horrible and unintuitive menu they added in the title bar of each window. But this is for a particular app and It come back to windowed mode when you switch from other app. So, it's similar or worst to the F11 full screen option of IE in Windows 7.
    plz once i installed my trackpad drivers i get charms i have not tried other W8 gestures ..
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-04-2014 11:04 PM
  11. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    Na, I think Microsoft knew Windows 8 would fail because people don't like a lot of change, which is why people complained a lot. Now they've heard all the complaints, and want more to make sure Windows 10 will be a good, viable OS for everybody.

    Yeah, people find a reason to complain, take XP, people wanted it to be more secure, which brought Vista, but it was too secure, which brought 7.

    Now you have 8 which brought a drastically new idea, so next you'll have 10 which has all the scared people appraising it (and confused about the name).

    Glad Microsoft has that kind of money, or there'd be another world of hurt, heh.
    yeah though the windows 8 is bad thing is very very overhyped imho,sure it was a drastic change and had infamous wifi issues with my laptops model,but it was fixed fast by dell(drivers)
    vista was great but it used too much resources and was buggy with wifi etc ,i have no clue how i survived with vista on my vaio!! once i put windows 7 and then 8,its blazing

    the xp arguement is one i can never understand,i understand people who have xp-specific software and cannot afford to change to 7 because of higher costs etc
    but going to the extent of bad mouthing 7 and 8 was bad on the part of many reviews
    10-05-2014 01:20 AM
  12. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    Lol, most laptops don't come with the configuration I have, I have decent mid-range specifications and my laptop cost nearly $1000, plus I can always expand the RAM beyond 4 GB.

    Again, my apps run the same with maybe a few performance bumps that are barely noticeable, but as far as the whole "Metro" apps go, they are quite slow, plus the Windows Store takes ages to load so I generally stay from it, and I can often see stuttering when moving between my live tiles. I am willing to make a whole video on this.



    No, I believe I didn't say that. While I do prefer Android over Windows Phone(not saying that Windows Phone is bad), I've never been an avid supporter of Chrome OS. So you've got the wrong guy here.
    your laptop cost cannot be $1000 unless its a macbook air
    that config comes as low as $700 with HP,lenovo etc
    you did say chrome os is better than windows now etc in that other thread
    10-05-2014 01:21 AM
  13. salmanahmad's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but this argument makes absolutely zero sense. People are saying that Windows 8 performs better than Windows 7 (which it does). You are arguing with them and basically saying that in your experience Windows 8 has roughly the same performance as Windows 7 for desktop programs, but that Windows 8 is slower than Windows 7 for Metro apps.

    How can Windows 8 be slower at Metro apps? Windows 7 doesn't even run Metro apps. Even if it takes a month for Windows 8 to load or refresh a Metro app that will still be much faster than NEVER on Windows 7.

    Why are you comparing the Metro version of software on Windows 8 to the desktop version on Windows 7? Apples and oranges. Use the desktop version of the software on Windows 8. You know you can do that right?
    When I said that Metro apps and the UI I was slow, my primary point was that most of all the "refinements" that Microsoft had claimed to add we're unpolished or unoptimized.

    The concepts we're great, I loved the live tiles, the new OTA updates, the store but it was so badly implemented. The Metro apps introduced in Windows 8 we're quite slow, most times. The Store would take ages to load which makes me use the Desktop more and more.

    I count on Windows 10 to improve things, because Windows 8 for me was a a great concept but badly implemented.

    your laptop cost cannot be $1000 unless its a macbook air
    that config comes as low as $700 with HP,lenovo etc
    you did say chrome os is better than windows now etc in that other thread
    I bought my laptop over an year ago, since then prices have gone down since newer versions of Intel processors are being used, but I bought it somewhere in the $800 - $900 range, it's called the Sony Vaio Fit15.

    And I never said that Chrome OS was better, unless you have proof don't accuse me.
    10-05-2014 02:06 AM
  14. psoham777's Avatar
    Why are here people fighting so much?

    Windows 10 hasn't even released yet & people are coming up with their disappointment?

    Cursing windows 10 would surely make sense when it officially comes out, until then its useless
    10-05-2014 02:10 AM
  15. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    When I said that Metro apps and the UI I was slow, my primary point was that most of all the "refinements" that Microsoft had claimed to add we're unpolished or unoptimized.

    The concepts we're great, I loved the live tiles, the new OTA updates, the store but it was so badly implemented. The Metro apps introduced in Windows 8 we're quite slow, most times. The Store would take ages to load which makes me use the Desktop more and more.

    I count on Windows 10 to improve things, because Windows 8 for me was a a great concept but badly implemented.



    I bought my laptop over an year ago, since then prices have gone down since newer versions of Intel processors are being used, but I bought it somewhere in the $800 - $900 range, it's called the Sony Vaio Fit15.

    And I never said that Chrome OS was better, unless you have proof don't accuse me.
    dude calm down,vaio fit15 was always for $600-700 here
    you said chrome os is better,go see your previous posts
    10-05-2014 02:50 AM
  16. S Vaibhav's Avatar
    Why are here people fighting so much?

    Windows 10 hasn't even released yet & people are coming up with their disappointment?

    Cursing windows 10 would surely make sense when it officially comes out, until then its useless
    +620 there's a ton of features like notification centre, Cortana, etc which they haven't seen yet. No sense to complain on such an early, incomplete preview build.
    10-05-2014 02:55 AM
  17. S Vaibhav's Avatar
    When I said that Metro apps and the UI I was slow, my primary point was that most of all the "refinements" that Microsoft had claimed to add we're unpolished or unoptimized.

    The concepts we're great, I loved the live tiles, the new OTA updates, the store but it was so badly implemented. The Metro apps introduced in Windows 8 we're quite slow, most times. The Store would take ages to load which makes me use the Desktop more and more.

    I count on Windows 10 to improve things, because Windows 8 for me was a a great concept but badly implemented.



    I bought my laptop over an year ago, since then prices have gone down since newer versions of Intel processors are being used, but I bought it somewhere in the $800 - $900 range, it's called the Sony Vaio Fit15.

    And I never said that Chrome OS was better, unless you have proof don't accuse me.
    Clean install 8.1, and then tell me if your statements hold true after that.
    10-05-2014 02:56 AM
  18. psoham777's Avatar
    +620 there's a ton of features like notification centre, Cortana, etc which they haven't seen yet. No sense to complain on such an early, incomplete preview build.
    Yes, they should realise the meaning of an alpha or beta version.
    Showing disappointment before an OS is released, how funny does it sound? 😁
    S Vaibhav likes this.
    10-05-2014 02:58 AM
  19. S Vaibhav's Avatar
    yeah though the windows 8 is bad thing is very very overhyped imho,sure it was a drastic change and had infamous wifi issues with my laptops model,but it was fixed fast by dell(drivers)
    vista was great but it used too much resources and was buggy with wifi etc ,i have no clue how i survived with vista on my vaio!! once i put windows 7 and then 8,its blazing

    the xp arguement is one i can never understand,i understand people who have xp-specific software and cannot afford to change to 7 because of higher costs etc
    but going to the extent of bad mouthing 7 and 8 was bad on the part of many reviews
    Actually Vista is not as an bad OS as many of the internet bloggers put it so. The hardware at that time was too old to run vista efficiently. Then MS released Windows 7, and by that time new hardware was in the hands of many people by then, so it received positive reviews. Windows Vista SP2= Windows 7. There's no difference between the two in performance. You just need the right hardware. Windows Vista Home Basic ran perfectly on my 2007 HP PC with a Pentium D and 512mb ram for casual web browsing and Office. Most people had 256mb/lower ram at that time :)
    10-05-2014 03:02 AM
  20. paulsalter's Avatar
    Yes, they should realise the meaning of an alpha or beta version.
    Showing disappointment before an OS is released, how funny does it sound? ��
    I thought the whole idea of joining the Insider Program was to test the Alpha version and let MS know what is good/bad about it so they can get a version of windows that everyone likes

    Telling people not to mention issues/disappointments is funny because doing this MS will just carry on developing windows how they want it and not what the consumer wants

    They might not listen to feedback, but this early build is there for people to provide it, whether that is good or bad feedback
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    10-05-2014 03:29 AM
  21. psoham777's Avatar
    I thought the whole idea of joining the Insider Program was to test the Alpha version and let MS know what is good/bad about it so they can get a version of windows that everyone likes

    Telling people not to mention issues/disappointments is funny because doing this MS will just carry on developing windows how they want it and not what the consumer wants
    Telling issues is fine, only when the windows 10 comes out officially. If some people are having issues with the official update, surely you could curse MS as much as you want, they can always come up with a new update. Here people are reacting as if windows 10 is going to be the last version. You really think that MS would come up with windows 10, without properly testing it? MS or any other company comes up with its own features, if they think that its lacking some, they come up with another update.

    Many of the issues told in this thread would surely get resolved once the official version is out. If you are trying something in beta/alpha version, you should also accept that it would surely have some bugs, because the name itself says that. Because that's not the official version, its just for some people desperate enough to try windows 10, that to with many missing features.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    10-05-2014 03:41 AM
  22. paulsalter's Avatar
    Telling issues is fine, only when the windows 10 comes out officially. If some people are having issues with the official update, surely you could curse MS as much as you want, they can always come up with a new update. Here people are reacting as if windows 10 is going to be the last version. You really think that MS would come up with windows 10, without properly testing it? MS or any other company comes up with its own features, if they think that its lacking some, they come up with another update.

    Many of the issues told in this thread would surely get resolved once the official version is out. If you are trying something in beta/alpha version, you should also accept that it would surely have some bugs, because the name itself says that. Because that's not the official version, its just for some people desperate enough to try windows 10, that to with many missing features.
    On your first point I disagree, this is why the Alpha/Beta is open to everyone, it is for people to provide feedback on what is good/bad about the system, MS will test it for what they want it to be and make sure it is bug free but they want feedback from people who use it daily
    If I where to find a usability issue with the new start menu, but MS thinks it works fine then it will not change, if thousands of people report the same thing MS might change it, this is what the improvement program is for, to tell them what Is good or bad about the new system

    I agree on your other point, bugs/issues are expected in these early release and these will be fixed my MS by the time is it released

    I just hope people are using the feedback tool to report their issues to MS and not just posting on forums
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    10-05-2014 03:55 AM
  23. psoham777's Avatar
    Alpha/beta versions are open to everyone, I know its for a good/bad feedback, but just getting disappointed before official release, how does that sound? We are months away from the official release of WP 10. Before that people are disappointed, claiming windows/WP10 as a failure. There are even more threads like this which says about the disappointment of WP 10. Is it justified?
    Last edited by psoham777; 10-05-2014 at 06:50 AM.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-05-2014 04:05 AM
  24. paulsalter's Avatar
    Alpha/beta versions are open to everyone, I know its for a good/bad feedback, but just getting disappointed before official release, how does that sound? We are months away from the official release of WP 10. Before that people are disappointed, claiming WP10 as a failure. There are even more threads like this which says about the disappointment of WP 10. Is it justified?
    I agree with what you say here, we might be nearly 12 months away from official release, so it is too early to be disappointed as a lot will change between now and the official release

    I have no problem with people having either positive or negative views on it so far, I just hope they are being sent to MS and not just aired on a forum (and people need to remember this is a Desktop preview, touch side has not been done yet)

    Imagine a few years ago if MS had done the same thing and opened up 8 for everyone to test/provide feedback, it could have been much better received than it has
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-05-2014 04:12 AM
  25. psoham777's Avatar
    I agree with what you say here, we might be nearly 12 months away from official release, so it is too early to be disappointed as a lot will change between now and the official release

    I have no problem with people having either positive or negative views on it so far, I just hope they are being sent to MS and not just aired on a forum (and people need to remember this is a Desktop preview, touch side has not been done yet)

    Imagine a few years ago if MS had done the same thing and opened up 8 for everyone to test/provide feedback, it could have been much better received than it has
    Lets say MS is trying
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-05-2014 04:20 AM
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