04-21-2015 04:38 AM
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  1. Jazmac's Avatar
    Doesn't seem to bother me. The design could stand a refresh if you ask me. You didn't ask me but if you did, that is what I would say. :) You are saying you don't like the 8.1 design and the W10 design is worse?? Interesting OP. That's a bridge too far to dissect for me.
    04-12-2015 04:12 PM
  2. Jazmac's Avatar
    My wife sure doesn't like change with her programs, yet after a week of playing around through Windows 8 Pro when I first got it, she liked it better than Windows 7.... As did I.

    Windows 8 (PC) UI was quite awful until 8.1?

    It's pretty much the exact same UI as what was in 8 except they put a little Windows Icon to help people know where to click for the Start Screen..... In case they didn't bother following the start up tutorial when they first made their account on the OS where it specifically showed you where it was..... Or they didn't know what the Windows Key on the Keyboard did (there's two of them to try and see what happens) or the other ways you can bring up the Start Screen.

    Yup, that little Window Icon on the Taskbar was such a major change. Oh there was a few minor tweaks to the Start Screen, but otherwise identical. Your comparison of Windows 8 & 8.1 of how the UI improved so much is like complaining that your sprinkles on top of your lat aren't laid out right, but as soon as the waitress rotated your cup 15 degrees clockwise, it's perfect.

    Changing the minor details of the UI icons/graphics will not take very long at all. More or less, it would be similar to changing the layout & graphics of a web page or a Flash application, etc.

    You open the existing layout you are designing from, in my case it would be my layered PSD in Photoshop, changing the graphics to what I now prefer, exporting that specific change and then replacing the old graphic with the new in my library & re-export.

    I am more than sure the process for Windows OS's has some very different processes, but the principal is the same. I have been able to edit, replace, re-export and re-release an entire UI (by myself) in less than a day.

    Now obviously the process in Windows OS's will be different in many aspects, but the principle remains the same. Microsoft is a big company with a lot of money and a lot of people at their disposal, if they sat down and crunched hard over what they want done with the existing UI, they could have it all done and ready within a week, including internal bug testing.

    As for the current UI and changes from WP8.1.... I like them. There are a few minor tweaks required here and there, such as having Cortana find the apps/programs on my phone like Cortana does on the W10 PC/Notebook I am using.... Or a search function within the settings to find what I want, but otherwise a good improvement over 8.1.

    Even my wife who just put W10 on her 1320 likes the UI better than before, and she's the one who doesn't like change....... Yet liked it right away. The Calendar was very different from what she was used to, but after a few minutes of playing around with it, she admitted it is an improvement but will just take a bit of time to get used to.

    Myself? I agree, although I am only testing on my 625 as my 930 is left out. There are many improvements despite a few things still needing to be improved such as performance on lower end devices, etc... which is all obvious at this stage.

    And the Hamburger menus?

    My God, if I have to hear people moaning about those things again it'll be too soon.

    There is nothing wrong with them and again, they are an improvement from the old Metro style. I no longer need to swipe and swipe and swipe multiple to get to where I want to go in an app & then swipe multiple times to get back to where I was..... Or worse, have the app jump to another section after I select something despite me not being finished.

    Now I can just press the menu and press a section I want to goto. That's an improvement.

    And some people have been going on about "But the Hamburger Menu is too far away to use with only one hand..."

    I haven't had any problems with the 625.... Or my wife's 1320, which is the same size screen as the 1520, which are both the largest screens you can get right now, and I haven't had any issues on that..... My wife using her 1320 with her much smaller hands hasn't complained yet and she's what you would consider as "an average user" of a mobile device. She doesn't get a ruler to make sure the fonts and their kerning are all correct in the UI.

    If it was really difficult for her to use, she would have said so right at the start. She is one to complain about something first before getting used to it.

    I am one to try something out in detail to make sure I didn't miss anything before I complain.

    There isn't anything wrong with Hamburger Menus other than people using the name "Hamburger"

    On my 930 I have been using hamburger menus often in other Apps, many web pages including these WC forums, and even Cortana has this Menu and has had it since the start.

    Nobody has complained about any of those things until now.... Which to me seems like a vocal minority.

    But there are piles of online petitions with oodles and poodles of names on them?

    Petitions amount to squat because only those who support the petition will sign it while everybody else in the world doesn't.

    So what about the Metro Style and Pivot system?

    It's all still there, just modernized a bit.

    The new Calendar seems to use the pivot system far better than anything else and for what is needed to be done with the calendar it suits. There is still a "hamburger" menu but again, it is designed to serve a specific purpose and does its job.

    While I liked the Metro style since Windows Phone 7.0/7.5, it was very basic and bland.... A little too bland and basic the more I used it.

    For me, the Metro style of black backgrounds, plain white text and very basic sliders with no imagination involved in their design other than a delayed pan effect between menu and title when you swiped, reminded me of an over glorified MS-DOS UI.

    It was alright and did what I needed it to, nor what it as convoluted as Android, but it didn't blow me away and I found faults right away.

    It would seem that in W10, MS is taking the Best of Both Worlds and creating their own Locutus. As Win10 adapts and improves, you will be one with the Borg....

    You will all become one with the Borg... Resistance is Futile.

    You will disarm yourselves and escort us to Sector Zero Zero One, where we will assimilate your technological and biological uniqueness and add it to our own.

    Your obsolete Apple products will become redundant.

    Your obsolete Android products will become redundant.

    We will have Windows 10 on every device, in every room, in every house, on every street, every block, every town, city, Province, State, Territory, Country and Region.

    http://astropt.org/blog/wp-content/u...futile.gif.png
    cool_story_bro_tell_it_again.jpg
    04-12-2015 04:19 PM
  3. stephen_az's Avatar
    The thing is I do understand what a technical preview is. I just have very little faith in Microsoft's ability to change things in time for the launch. Windows 8 changed very little from technical preview to rtm and the 8.0 UI was quite awful it wasn't until 8.1 that things improved. A lot of W10 looks to be changing things for the sake of changing them. There are hamburger menus everywhere, and large parts of the UI completely ignore Metro Design.

    Considering the gargantuan amount of work ahead for the mobile team, I do feel my concerns are justified.
    The thing is you clearly do not understand what a TP is because you never saw one in this sense for Window 8.0. The early versions were being scoped the same month Windows 7 was formally released. By the time they let people into testing Windows 8, it was well down the line. This is not. BTW, there were also quite substantial changes in the various public betas of Windows 8. Just because you did not like the final, does not mean it was locked on day one. Personally, I think Microsoft has made a mistake but it Is not in the early stage UX elements for Windows 10 (phone and desktop). The mistake has been not making it harder to get into the program. There are too many people in the mix who clearly do not understand how this process works and it is leading to incessant whining about an unfinished OS (equivalent of complaining about the color of a new building before it gets siding and paint) and lots of something doesn't work threads....
    04-12-2015 04:41 PM
  4. Mr Lebowski's Avatar
    W10 Design - Worse than 8.1? implies that 8.1 is pretty crappy...just sayin'
    04-12-2015 06:02 PM
  5. Jazmac's Avatar
    W10 Design - Worse than 8.1? implies that 8.1 is pretty crappy...just sayin'
    It is what he said. My question is why even entertain a discussion on the matter since this IS the interface and its look. He doesn't like the look so this one is easy, quit looking at it. It is the same look it had since WP took to the market. So to me this post is yet another condemnation of the platform because he would rather modify the desktop as you can on android.
    04-12-2015 07:17 PM
  6. Grimlock's Avatar
    The thing is I do understand what a technical preview is. I just have very little faith in Microsoft's ability to change things in time for the launch. Windows 8 changed very little from technical preview to rtm and the 8.0 UI was quite awful it wasn't until 8.1 that things improved. A lot of W10 looks to be changing things for the sake of changing them. There are hamburger menus everywhere, and large parts of the UI completely ignore Metro Design.

    Considering the gargantuan amount of work ahead for the mobile team, I do feel my concerns are justified.
    You originally complained about
    1) choppy animations
    2) inconsistently sized icons
    3) people hub visibility

    This make it very obvious you have totally unrealistic expectations about what a technical preview is. If you really think the final product is going to have choppy animations and inconsistently sized icons I don't know what to tell you. Also I don't have the people hub issue, I can see about ten contacts. I don't know what else to say.

    You only brought up hamburger buttons and such later on when you found yourself in a corner.
    Jazmac and prasath1234 like this.
    04-13-2015 11:38 AM
  7. prasath1234's Avatar
    If at all MS keeps this windows 10 for phones I will remain in wp 8.1 for sure.
    04-13-2015 03:12 PM
  8. Jazmac's Avatar
    If at all MS keeps this windows 10 for phones I will remain in wp 8.1 for sure.
    You are joking right?
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-13-2015 03:24 PM
  9. Long Syntax's Avatar
    I don't know how I feel yet about the W10 phone TP. I'll give it the time it needs (end of summer) to develop, but I too have concerns.

    The most interesting thing (and possibly the most worrying) is that W10 for phones is becoming what previous iterations were in the beginning - a dumping ground for all those wants and wishes of those that disliked what the current version is. I know it's human nature, but obviously all these wishes will never be incorporated into the final RTM of W10 for Phones. People will continue to believe that W10 will be THEIR diamond studded unicorn, and when that doesn't happen they'll be less than happy.

    So at the same time MS disappoints some who liked the previous design they'll also let down the dreamers that believe if they just submit feedback to MS enough times they'll get their wish. Seems like MS is in a no-win position.

    Sorry to be negative, but I guess that's where my mind is lately with regards to WP.
    04-13-2015 03:34 PM
  10. colinkiama's Avatar
    Like it or not, windows 10 mobile and windows 10 is actually a difference. Kind of like windows mobile 6 to windows phone 7. Metro is dead! Screw easy usability. Hamburgers and features have taken over now and there is nothing we can do about it. Microsoft said themselves, hamburgers are part of the UI now. If you want proof, look at the OneDrive app.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-13-2015 03:42 PM
  11. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    The general UI, I like (you can't consider the buggy stuff, like msgboxes. I'm talking about icons and stuff). The UX, I hate, and I'm rather concerned that it will not change.
    04-13-2015 03:46 PM
  12. Long Syntax's Avatar
    colinkiama - you might be right, but the start screen is still tiles which was the essence of the metro design language. I'm still not ready to declare W10 for Phones bad or moving in the wrong direction, but there does seem to be at least an inconsistency with their direction in combining former metro elements such as tiles and other newer design elements. Hopefully the designers can unify the design language so it doesn't become jarring, but I'm at least concerned.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-13-2015 03:49 PM
  13. colinkiama's Avatar
    colinkiama - you might be right, but the start screen is still tiles which was the essence of the metro design language. I'm still not ready to declare W10 for Phones bad or moving in the wrong direction, but there does seem to be at least an inconsistency with their direction in combining former metro elements such as tiles and other newer design elements. Hopefully the designers can unify the design language so it doesn't become jarring, but I'm at least concerned.
    I feel the same way the only way to save this platform in terms of UI is by voting for this: https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...enu-with-pivot
    04-13-2015 04:04 PM
  14. manicottiK's Avatar
    Hamburgers and pivots aren't rival ways to solve the same problem. Pivots provide in-page tabs. SplitViews (the name of the Windows control that creates the hamburger) are for section to section navigation -- effectively an always-available listing of what, in WP8 times, would have been the headings of the panels of the main page combined with a few other things.

    For example, in Baconit for WP8, we have a panorama with Hello, reddits, account, and recent. In an imagined Baconit for W10, we might have a hamburger with buttons for Hello, reddits, account, and recent. (Of course, this need not be how the app is organized, but it's an option.)

    The upside of this is that someone wanting to quickly get from one place to another, can. For example, from the point of reading a reddit thread, I'd need to press the Back key three times to get back to the main page, then swipe to Accounts. In the SplitView mode, I can tap the hamburger then tap Accounts. The downside is that the idea of the content being the navigation and of surfacing content early are lost as the section headers (at least so far) show us nothing more than the name of the section.

    Essentially, the new way embraces what's common (i.e., effectively "average" since everyone has it) and distances itself from what's improved (i.e., better, but unique and thus more challenging to support). I wish that Microsoft were trying to improve the standard instead of just copying it. Sadly, I expect that this points toward the coming end of the live tile as developers won't want to write code, particularly a server-side tile dispatcher, that has no benefit outside of Windows.

    Rather than being all doom-and-gloom, I do recognize that the old style of app was really well organized for tightly-focused apps where users drilled down into content. As mobile apps become more sophisticated, there is a need for additional navigational models. What bothers me about how we're getting there is that Microsoft never described any of these issues in Windows 8 (although they did extensively for WP7 and 8) and they are continuing that relative silence now with Windows 10. If someone published an article on "navigation models and the changing scope of mobile apps", we'd all be well served (and several of us would be shut up, which is always a good thing).
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-13-2015 04:50 PM
  15. Slovenix's Avatar
    You know what I want to see, I want to see a master button, just like on webpage (OneDrive, OneNote, Outlook, etc), so I can jump from one app to another in no time. Like the Google's button for all the apps.
    04-14-2015 12:25 AM
  16. hotphil's Avatar
    But where would the hamburger go then?
    04-14-2015 12:31 AM
  17. Slovenix's Avatar
    About the new UI, yeah.. It's getting complicated, yet It kind of takes me no time to get used to it. I completely forget what the 8.1 looks like. Feels more PC-like which I prefer.

    Anyways the real problem is how to perfectly mix Livetiles with 10 design.. Maybe by adding functions like active buttons or something
    hotphil and prasath1234 like this.
    04-14-2015 12:33 AM
  18. Slovenix's Avatar
    But where would the hamburger go then?
    I mean it would stand on it's own, only in MS-related apps. Just an idea I get from the new Outlook&Calendar switching
    04-14-2015 12:41 AM
  19. tohoshinki's Avatar
    I'll start with the big gripes I have with the windows 10 UI.

    I buy a big phone with a big screen so I can see more information. Windows 10 largely ignores this.

    The contacts app on Windows Mobile 6.5 was more efficient than the new people hub design which pads the contact list with thick grey bars for each letter of the alphabet, and tab buttons up top, and a context menu on the bottom. Completely inefficient. On smaller displays like the 530 you can only see three contacts names at any given time because of all the grey space at the top and bottom of the screen.

    The circular photos in the people hub? Completely inconsistent, again where else in windows phone have there ever been circular ui elements? Is this a placeholder?

    The new toggles are tiny and the old ones looked better. Are they placeholders?

    Windows phone 8.1 had solid high contrast icons, which were always easy to identify against a black background. These new wireframe icons, like the ones you see in the settings app, are ugly, don't fit with the rest of the OS and are more difficult to identify. For vision impaired users these new icons are more hindrance than help.

    The new context menu on the bottom of the display is thicker and takes up more screen real estate than previously when in the past it didn't need to. Instead of bringing up a wide vertically scrolling list of options, it opens a tiny context menu not dissimilar to the right-click menu in windows desktop. Its smaller, and harder to read. Its not gently sliding up to reveal a list of options it just appears.

    The background colours within core system apps are inconsistent and its jarring coming from previous versions of the OS. Everything felt cohesive in 8.1 because the dark background followed you from app to app. In w10 you get weird shades of grey, like the contacts app, and it separates the experience from the rest of the OS.

    The new pop up notifications are ugly looking. The background is different, the font is bigger and doesn't render properly on small screen devices.

    The new dialer, adds new functionality but has essentially swapped out the space efficient toolbar on the bottom of the screen (easy to reach also) for an android-esque toolbar up top. It feels dated.

    Many elements of the UI that used large text labels are gone. These were great for vision impaired users and made navigating easier.

    I'm concerned about this OS update because given the rate at which major apps are updated on this platform, old UI elements will always be a part of the experience for most users. Windows 10 will be highly inconsistent.
    prasath1234, Kram Sacul and a5cent like this.
    04-16-2015 11:47 AM
  20. raphok's Avatar
    All microsoft apps now have white background. And opaque live tiles.

    go f*ck, msft.
    Kram Sacul and prasath1234 like this.
    04-16-2015 11:49 AM
  21. manicottiK's Avatar
    I agree that the people hub is mess, but I'd like to suggest that it's new and is very unfinished. (If it's finished, maybe we are, too. ;)

    I don't like the circular contact buttons, but I think that they're trying to jump on a current design trend (Skype, Google+, etc.). App bar buttons were round because it facilitated smoothly rotating them when the phone switched from portrait to landscape. I think that the new toggle design is here to stay and that it's moving to the left, which might have been necessitated by the need to support large screens where the right-aligned graphic would be too far from the text to which it applies. The new wireframe icons are a mess for exactly the reasons that you enumerated. Filled solids is easier to read than the wireframe version, but might look overwhelming at large sizes on desktops.

    I'm hoping that the lack of animation and the other app bar visual deficiencies are the result of this being an early build. Sadly, I think that the smaller popup context menus are the final deliverable so that the phone UI matches the tablet/laptop/desktop design. The fonts and design on popup messages is probably just a mistake that will be soon fixed.

    Sadly, the addition of colors is probably here to stay. Color isn't bad, but the seemingly indiscriminate application of multiple colors is probably sticking around. Note how many folks asked for the ability to individually color tiles. That wild colors of the Windows 8 start screen is one of the things that weakens it for my uses. The colors overpower the content that the tiles are trying to convey. Still, if you want to decorate your PC instead of getting information from it, per-tile customizable colors is what you need.

    Controls at the top and those without text labels also appear to be part of the new Microsoft Design Language 2.0. Some of this is likely to accommodate a range of device sizes; some of it may be to make it easier for brand new users to acclimate faster. (I'm sympathetic to this as I've seen users pick up a Windows phone, note that the text was cut off, put it down, and move on. Microsoft HAS to hold such folks for more than 30 seconds to generate sales.)
    04-16-2015 02:47 PM
  22. manicottiK's Avatar
    Everything felt cohesive in [earlier versions].
    This is the key thing that converted me. When I first picked up a WP7 device in 2010 (for a development assignment), I did not like it. Compared to Windows Mobile 6.5.x, it was missing a lot of functionality, the information density was low, and it looked bland. Over the course of a week, it converted me because it felt finished. Not functionally -- 7.0 was missing a lot. It felt finished in the sense of being a consistent thing to which the final details had been attended to. I remarked to others that this must be what iPhone users felt and that Android users couldn't then know.

    The software, the development tools, and the documentation all worked together to let developers write apps that reinforced a consistent and coherent design that produced a cohesive environment. When the tools came out to develop Windows 8 Store apps, the documentation was lacking as compared to what we got with WP7. I suspect that Windows 10 will be the same and that we will head toward a loss of cohesion. I really hope that I'm wrong.
    Kram Sacul, a5cent and prasath1234 like this.
    04-16-2015 02:55 PM
  23. prasath1234's Avatar
    Only thing wp had in its favour to attract people is its unique ui.Now that is lost with windows 10 for phone. who is going to go android like os with very little apps.Wp has lost its sheen .In India low end competition is going neck nd neck even Samsung is going to be killed in low or mid end.Wp has no chance even in low or mid end in India with devices from lenevo Yu xiaomi huwaei all Chinese OEM.Am sure it is impossible for MS to compete with features offered by this OEM.They are giving 2gb ram for $150.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    04-16-2015 03:30 PM
  24. hotphil's Avatar
    I'll start with the big gripes I have with the windows 10 UI.
    ....
    The contacts app on Windows Mobile 6.5 was more efficient than the new people hub design which pads the contact list with thick grey bars for each letter of the alphabet
    The coloured bars aren't present on my version. And sound like the ones I've seen on handsets with just GDR2. I reckon your test device doesn't have the latest app installed correctly(?).
    As for the other points, well there's a long way to go. With it only being a Technical Preview at this stage, there's a lot of hope for UI changes before release.
    04-16-2015 06:13 PM
  25. DCTF's Avatar
    Not in my view. It's looking really good so far, in my opinion.

    I'm glad to see the weirdly large text getting phased out, and the poorly laid-out pages that such content-light pages necessitated.

    I found it quite hard to get a look I liked, more so than with 8.1, but now I've cracked it I like what I get with W10 more than with W8. Really, it's quite remarkable to me how good it looks considering this is pre-alpha, and it'll get even better from here. I'm really looking forward to using a desktop OS that shares so much in common with its phone equivalent.
    hotphil likes this.
    04-17-2015 04:29 PM
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